Messianic Christianity

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MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Let me preface my comments with this assurance that my intent is NOT to be critical of anyone; but some of what I am about to say may seem to contradict me.


There are two distinct types of Messianic Congregations:

1) congregations primarily of believers with Jewish heritage who welcome anyone who wants to participate

These congregations believe that the appointed times of Leviticus Chapter 23 are still important both to God and to believers.
most members of these congregations also attend mainstream churches on Sunday. Most no longer observe the dietary laws or try to put themselves back under Law. Most recognize that the priesthood has passed from Levi to Judah in the person of Jesus (Yeshua); and that any animal sacrifice would deny the sufficiency of Yeshua's death on the cross.

2) congregations of primarily 'gentile' believers who feel compelled to put themselves back under the law.
IMO many of them use 'paleo Hebrew to redefine words to fit their doctrine.
some of them hold to some sort of replacement theology.
 
Last edited:
MarcR said:
Let me preface my comments with this assurance that my intent is NOT to be critical of anyone; but some of what I am about to say may seem to contradict me.


There are two distinct types of Messianic Congregations:

1) congregations primarily of believers with Jewish heritage who welcome anyone who wants to participate

These congregations believe that the appointed times of Leviticus Chapter 23 are still important both to God and to believers.
most members of these congregations also attend mainstream churches on Sunday. Most no longer observe the dietary laws or try to put themselves back under Law. Most recognize that the priesthood has passed from Levi to Judah in the person of Jesus (Yeshua); and that any animal sacrifice would deny the sufficiency of Yeshua's death on the cross.

2) congregations of primarily 'gentile' believers who feel compelled to put themselves back under the law.
IMO many of them use 'paleo Hebrew to redefine words to fit their doctrine.
some of them hold to some sort of replacement theology.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I want to hear more. Please keep posting about this, or at least pm.
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MarcR again.

The first time I was in trouble for thinking in terms of the faith of Abraham was when I mentioned in my congregation that Jesus Christ, Yeshua, walked His earth as a Jew. The "elder" labeled me as demon possessed, even though it was just the "fact" I hwanted to convey. As I left the congregation, a home assembly, all I could say was, "I am indeed demon possessed, I would be the last to know. God is the God of order and not chaos. If anyone does sees a demon in me, by all means cast it out, for no one is given this gift without theat ability, that is to cast it out." There was not a sound from any as I departe.

It was not until about four years ago when I became very fond of calling the Father Yahweh, and the Son, Yeshua. For some odd reason (you know) a came across a free Hebrew class online. I followed the course, and when I finished the course weht to being a paid course. No matter, I have since read the Tanakh in Hebrew with the English a click or cursor pass on each word. It has been a thrilling experience, but I do not expect anyone to do this also in order to be saved. Anyone who truly loves and believes Jesus is saved, but because I have always been a student of language, it was a good experience for me.

The law and the prophets do speak of Jesus Christ, and He has done all that was foretold He would do, for all who receive Him. He is wonderful, amen.
 
MarcR said:
Let me preface my comments with this assurance that my intent is NOT to be critical of anyone; but some of what I am about to say may seem to contradict me.


There are two distinct types of Messianic Congregations:

1) congregations primarily of believers with Jewish heritage who welcome anyone who wants to participate

These congregations believe that the appointed times of Leviticus Chapter 23 are still important both to God and to believers.
most members of these congregations also attend mainstream churches on Sunday. Most no longer observe the dietary laws or try to put themselves back under Law. Most recognize that the priesthood has passed from Levi to Judah in the person of Jesus (Yeshua); and that any animal sacrifice would deny the sufficiency of Yeshua's death on the cross.

2) congregations of primarily 'gentile' believers who feel compelled to put themselves back under the law.
IMO many of them use 'paleo Hebrew to redefine words to fit their doctrine.
some of them hold to some sort of replacement theology.
Click to expand...

There is NO Scriptural basis for a "Messianic Congregation", they are MAN MADE! Gal 3v28, Eph 2v1-22

Yahweh Shalom
 
I have love and respect for the Old Testament and read it in conjuction with the New Testament for the whole counsel of God.

People seem to think it's an either/or (law vs grace) I can believe both comfortably. They also get stuck in if/then (if you beleive in grace then you will sin then you will not repent)

The entire Bible is there for us to learn from and about Jesus.

It is an integrated message-Jesus Christ is on every page-if one looks for Him.
 
It is written in Ephesians that we were formerly active with the children of disobedience., and this teaching is true for all.

Disobedience is in reference to disobeying our blessed Father.

Disobedience is sin.

Sin is breaking the law. We all have done it.

Being sons of obedience after coming to Jesus Christ is not to be interpreted that we are already perfect, for, also as is written, we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. No, we are perfected on His Great and Glorious Day, not before.

Meanwhile we are expected to obey. Obey how? We obey as Jesus Christ teaaches us.

The law of God is not stupid, not obsolete. The law has been transfered from stone, which is immoveable, to our hearts where we know grace and mercy, thus the law is not completed with mercy and grace.

If this does not shout loudly which laws are trumped by grace, it is perhaps you are legalistic.

When the law is on our hearts, we forgive others, for if we do not forgive others their trespasses (sins), we cannot be forgiven.

Do not be afraid of the word, obedience. With love, obedience comes more and more naturally, for it is the product of loving our Father.
.
We are not under the law, but we do obey the law as well as we are able. We are no longer governed by sin.

Praise God, believe God, and obey Him, our Savior did, and He is our Example, amen.
 
jb said:
There is NO Scriptural basis for a "Messianic Congregation", they are MAN MADE! Gal 3v28, Eph 2v1-22

Yahweh Shalom
Click to expand...

I totally agree. There is no scriptural precedent for any denomination or doctrinal distinctions between churches.

If you want to make them go away you better pray for a lot of help from God; because He hasn't shown much interest in correcting that 'problem' yet.
 
this is probably a stupid question, but isn't all Christianity,
by definition, Messianic? :)
 
psychomom said:
this is probably a stupid question, but isn't all Christianity,
by definition, Messianic? :)
Click to expand...

First, the only stupid question is the one unasked.


Yess I certainly agree that all Christianity is by definition Messianic; however this is not the way in which the word Messianic is usually used.


By common usage the word 'Messianic' is almost like a denominational tag for two entirely different statements of faith; as indicated in my OP.
 
For he himself is our peace, who has made us (Jew and Gentile) both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man (redeemed Jew and Gentile) in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off(Gentile) and peace to those who were near. (Jew)
(Eph 2:14-17)
 
MarcR said:
Let me preface my comments with this assurance that my intent is NOT to be critical of anyone; but some of what I am about to say may seem to contradict me.


There are two distinct types of Messianic Congregations:

1) congregations primarily of believers with Jewish heritage who welcome anyone who wants to participate

These congregations believe that the appointed times of Leviticus Chapter 23 are still important both to God and to believers.
most members of these congregations also attend mainstream churches on Sunday. Most no longer observe the dietary laws or try to put themselves back under Law. Most recognize that the priesthood has passed from Levi to Judah in the person of Jesus (Yeshua); and that any animal sacrifice would deny the sufficiency of Yeshua's death on the cross.

2) congregations of primarily 'gentile' believers who feel compelled to put themselves back under the law.
IMO many of them use 'paleo Hebrew to redefine words to fit their doctrine.
some of them hold to some sort of replacement theology.
Click to expand...

Number two is quite active online, Hebrew Roots Movement adherents trying to teach Christians the longstanding heresy of mixing Torah law and grace through faith. Look them up on Wikipedia, then follow the many write ups using key wrods there by Christian ministries that identify cult religions posing as Christian.

The first 7 years of Church history involved entirely Jews, later educated to the gospel relationship to the Jews mainly through Paul's preaching and epistles. His separation of law and grace is rejected by HRMers.

I've witnessed folks of the first kind. I learned a lot about the Torah from them, but was greatly increased in better appreciation of the New Covenant. The true Messianic Christians move you from the old understanding to the entirely new Way of Christ which abolished the old way, but show the value of honoring in memorial all the ways of God. It isn't necessary to visit them to learn that, as New Testament scriptures do a fine job already. Learning by reading, hearing, and acting out is simply a betterway for some folks to learn anything.
 
All who believe Jesus Christ are indeed Messianic. That is, they are in the Messiah or Anointed of Yah. It is unfortunate that many have taken from this to be Hellenized in place of being under the influence of the chosen by God to be the caretakers of teh Word until our Messiah came to save us, replacing the faith of Abraham with Greek traditions. God bless all in Messiah, amen.
 
If it isn't obvious by my recent posts and threads, in the past 2 months I have become fascinated with this topic of Church and Israel. The relationship between Law and Grace is where I need to learn more.
Sometimes it seems simple and obvious to me... and other times the relationship seems so blurry.
We can't neglect the Law, but nor can we be under it.
 
One thing we learned in Hebrew class is that Messianic congregations are pretty much all Gentiles. I've been to a few services, and there was one third generation Messanic Jew, the rest Gentiles.

If you want to learn about Judaism, then go to a synagogue, it will change your view of this false HRM cult forever. And probably of Judaism!

PS I've heard a few converted Jews preach and it was amazing. Strangely, they all went to regular Christian churches, just like the rest of us who converted, from say, atheism, like I did!
 
We also can't go making divisions within the Law, as if there is a division between ceremonial laws and moral laws... There is no division like that given in the text.
But we know there is a Spirit of the Law and the Letter.
 
Angela53510 said:
One thing we learned in Hebrew class is that Messianic congregations are pretty much all Gentiles. I've been to a few services, and there was one third generation Messanic Jew, the rest Gentiles.

If you want to learn about Judaism, then go to a synagogue, it will change your view of this false HRM cult forever. And probably of Judaism!

PS I've heard a few converted Jews preach and it was amazing. Strangely, they all went to regular Christian churches, just like the rest of us who converted, from say, atheism, like I did!
Click to expand...


You are describing the second of the two types I mentioned.

For the first type, look for:

Friends of Israel
Chosen People
American Board of Mission to the Jews

These Messianic Congregations are usually only found in cities with a large Jewish presence
As I mentioned in my OP, most members of these congregations attend mainstream churches as well.
 
Do not confuse the second instance of being Messianic with being Messianic and foresaking living in disobedience. The latter is not being under the law, it is having the law formerly without mercy and grace on ston now inscribed on the heart. We obey because of grace only, not out of fear of the law in stone. Some would say being free of the law is license to break it, as Paul says, God forbid. We are freed of the curse of the law, death. We are now children of obedience. in Jesus Christ.

JaumeJ said:
It is written in Ephesians that we were formerly active with the children of disobedience., and this teaching is true for all.

Disobedience is in reference to disobeying our blessed Father.

Disobedience is sin.

Sin is breaking the law. We all have done it.

Being sons of obedience after coming to Jesus Christ is not to be interpreted that we are already perfect, for, also as is written, we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. No, we are perfected on His Great and Glorious Day, not before.

Meanwhile we are expected to obey. Obey how? We obey as Jesus Christ teaaches us.

The law of God is not stupid, not obsolete. The law has been transfered from stone, which is immoveable, to our hearts where we know grace and mercy, thus the law is not completed with mercy and grace.


If this does not shout loudly which laws are trumped by grace, it is perhaps you are legalistic.

When the law is on our hearts, we forgive others, for if we do not forgive others their trespasses (sins), we cannot be forgiven.

Do not be afraid of the word, obedience. With love, obedience comes more and more naturally, for it is the product of loving our Father.
.
We are not under the law, but we do obey the law as well as we are able. We are no longer governed by sin.

Praise God, believe God, and obey Him, our Savior did, and He is our Example, amen.
Click to expand...
 
Angela53510 said:
One thing we learned in Hebrew class is that Messianic congregations are pretty much all Gentiles. I've been to a few services, and there was one third generation Messanic Jew, the rest Gentiles.

If you want to learn about Judaism, then go to a synagogue, it will change your view of this false HRM cult forever. And probably of Judaism!

PS I've heard a few converted Jews preach and it was amazing. Strangely, they all went to regular Christian churches, just like the rest of us who converted, from say, atheism, like I did!
Click to expand...

I grew up in a Synagogue. While I lived in San Francisco, my wife and I were simultaneously members of a Conservative Synagogue and either First Baptist Church or First Covenant Church. The Mission Covenant Church began as a Sweedish language church; but is now mostly English speaking and welcomes anyone. The only time you hear Sweedish is when they sing the first Stanza and last stanza of How Great Thou Art.
 
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