Ministering to the Grieving

[Gideon300]

People experience grief very differently, as is evidenced in this thread. This is because we differ in our understanding, maturity, and affections. One can easily accept loss trusting in the goodness of God completely, while others feel overwhelmed, yet may trust God implicitly as well. We cannot pick our emotions, but we can choose how we act upon them. Our level of maturity will determine this.

The OP is dealing with helping people grieve. We can only help them by meeting them where they are. Trying a one size fits all approach will only help those who are amenable to your preference.

Not my preference. It's God's word. No one is obliged to agree. I can tell you that it works in practice. My wife and I met a couple about 15 years ago. We met the wife a few times after that. The husband of 20 years died of cancer. His wife nursed him through that ordeal. We did not know any of this.

The now widow became depressed to the point of being hospitalised. We first met them when we had an outreach. We gave them a book with my phone number on it. She found it and rang me to tell us what had happened. Her husband had passed away 7 months previously. She told me that when we first met her and her husband, it was one of the very few times that he had left the house.

We were able to encourage her to the point that she was free of depression and getting free of the medications that she was on to cope with depression. She is attending a church, something that she and her husband did not do while they were married. He was a total introvert. Her life pretty much revolved around him.

Some people handle adversity better than others. Sure, there is no one size fits all. But the principles found in God's word apply no matter the situation.​

 

[Anchorite]

Some people handle adversity better than others. Sure, there is no one size fits all. But the principles found in God's word apply no matter the situation.​

Any grief therapist will tell you that grieving is not a choice, it is a deep emotional reaction. You have not experienced the death of a wife, so your instructions are theoretical, detached, and dogmatic.

Instead of praising people whose love was so shallow, they did not grieve the death of their spouse, you would do better by obeying this scripture.

Romans 12

15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

 

[Cameron143]

Not my preference. It's God's word. No one is obliged to agree. I can tell you that it works in practice. My wife and I met a couple about 15 years ago. We met the wife a few times after that. The husband of 20 years died of cancer. His wife nursed him through that ordeal. We did not know any of this.

The now widow became depressed to the point of being hospitalised. We first met them when we had an outreach. We gave them a book with my phone number on it. She found it and rang me to tell us what had happened. Her husband had passed away 7 months previously. She told me that when we first met her and her husband, it was one of the very few times that he had left the house.

We were able to encourage her to the point that she was free of depression and getting free of the medications that she was on to cope with depression. She is attending a church, something that she and her husband did not do while they were married. He was a total introvert. Her life pretty much revolved around him.

Some people handle adversity better than others. Sure, there is no one size fits all. But the principles found in God's word apply no matter the situation.​

Preference was a poor choice of words. And while I don't disagree with your assessment of scripture, everyone doesn't receive truth the same. I gave the reasons why. Even Paul distinguished between milk and meat and was discerning in what he shared and with whom. I'm glad you have matured to the point you have. Everyone hasn't attained your level of maturity and understanding. Your approach won't help them. And it definitely won't attract unbelievers.

 

[Gideon300]

Preference was a poor choice of words. And while I don't disagree with your assessment of scripture, everyone doesn't receive truth the same. I gave the reasons why. Even Paul distinguished between milk and meat and was discerning in what he shared and with whom. I'm glad you have matured to the point you have. Everyone hasn't attained your level of maturity and understanding. Your approach won't help them. And it definitely won't attract unbelievers.

I disagree. Jesus called those who are burdened and heavy laden to come to Him. He spoke to unbelievers. (Matthew 11:28)

God permitted my wife and I to go through traumatic experiences. He also showed us how to overcome. I've done it the hard way and the easy way. I know which I prefer. The wise man learns from his experiences. If we are really smart, we will learn from someone else's experiences.

Believers grow in the hard times, but only if they accept God's way of deliverance. I spent two years in a complete mess because I no longer had access to my children. If I can spare others that pain, I surely will try. Overcoming sorrow and grief is not meat. It is a fundamental. Tribulation is assured in this life. How we deal with it determines how we grow.

Sure, not everyone is willing to be helped. Sometimes they have to go down before they will turn to God to be lifted up. That was my case. I learned a great deal. I am obliged to help others if I can.

I knew that what I said would not be popular with everyone. I must say it anyway.

 

[Magenta]

James 4 v 8 + Psalm 34 v 18 God draws near to the broken hearted

 

[Gideon300]

Any grief therapist will tell you that grieving is not a choice, it is a deep emotional reaction. You have not experienced the death of a wife, so your instructions are theoretical, detached, and dogmatic.

Instead of praising people whose love was so shallow, they did not grieve the death of their spouse, you would do better by obeying this scripture.

Romans 12

15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

I'm a "Christ therapist", not a secular counselor or psychologist. I know God's word and I know what works. My now wife devoted 20 years of her life to her late husband. The last few years she nursed him through ill health. He was formerly one of the most active people you could meet. Illness put an end to that. She spent most of her waking hours tending to him. She can sleep the moment she sits down. She learned to take advantage of even the shortest break. Another friend and I shared the house and did the chores that she could not do. My friend and I worked full time.

I've never seen such loyalty and caring. About the only time she took a break was to go shopping, once a week. And in 2011, when she was shopping, her husband and my friend of 30 years passed away. You know nothing about the situation, or the people involved. You would do well not to judge before you know something of the truth.

 

[Cameron143]

I disagree. Jesus called those who are burdened and heavy laden to come to Him. He spoke to unbelievers. (Matthew 11:28)

God permitted my wife and I to go through traumatic experiences. He also showed us how to overcome. I've done it the hard way and the easy way. I know which I prefer. The wise man learns from his experiences. If we are really smart, we will learn from someone else's experiences.

Believers grow in the hard times, but only if they accept God's way of deliverance. I spent two years in a complete mess because I no longer had access to my children. If I can spare others that pain, I surely will try. Overcoming sorrow and grief is not meat. It is a fundamental. Tribulation is assured in this life. How we deal with it determines how we grow.

Sure, not everyone is willing to be helped. Sometimes they have to go down before they will turn to God to be lifted up. That was my case. I learned a great deal. I am obliged to help others if I can.

I knew that what I said would not be popular with everyone. I must say it anyway.

Appreciate the discussion.

Grace and peace.

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 5 v 4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Psalm 147 v :3He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.

 

[Anchorite]

I'm a "Christ therapist", not a secular counselor or psychologist. I know God's word and I know what works. My now wife devoted 20 years of her life to her late husband. The last few years she nursed him through ill health. He was formerly one of the most active people you could meet. Illness put an end to that. She spent most of her waking hours tending to him. She can sleep the moment she sits down. She learned to take advantage of even the shortest break. Another friend and I shared the house and did the chores that she could not do. My friend and I worked full time.

I've never seen such loyalty and caring. About the only time she took a break was to go shopping, once a week. And in 2011, when she was shopping, her husband and my friend of 30 years passed away. You know nothing about the situation, or the people involved. You would do well not to judge before you know something of the truth.

I know more than nothing, I know what you revealed about the situation in post #5 and subsequent posts in this thread.

For her to have never grieved, and she can talk about her late husband without sorrow — that does not sound spiritual, it sounds psychopathic. To be married 20 years, then act like her husband’s death is no big deal, that is mental aberration.

Perhaps she cared for him out of obligation, but not true love. Then she turns around and marries you, her husband’s best friend. I would not broadcast this story unless you want a lot of raised eyebrows and gossip.

She told me that she'd had a bit of a cry and then cast all the care of the situation on Jesus. That was in 2011. She has never grieved. She can talk about her late husband without sorrow.

 

[Gideon300]

I know more than nothing, I know what you revealed about the situation in post #5 and subsequent posts in this thread.

For her to have never grieved, and she can talk about her late husband without sorrow — that does not sound spiritual, it sounds psychopathic. To be married 20 years, then act like her husband’s death is no big deal, that is mental aberration.

Perhaps she cared for him out of obligation, but not true love. Then she turns around and marries you, her husband’s best friend. I would not broadcast this story unless you want a lot of raised eyebrows and gossip.

Again you display utter and complete ignorance of the situation. You also display ignorance of God's word. Perhaps you prefer to allow people to suffer torment and emotional distress that produces nothing of any worth? We were able, by the grace of God, to release an acquaintance from psychiatric care. The truth really does set people free.​

FYI, not that it is any of your business, my wife and I married in 2022. Not exactly "turning around and marrying me".

 

[Anchorite]

Again you display utter and complete ignorance of the situation. You also display ignorance of God's word. Perhaps you prefer to allow people to suffer torment and emotional distress that produces nothing of any worth? We were able, by the grace of God, to release an acquaintance from psychiatric care. The truth really does set people free.​

FYI, not that it is any of your business, my wife and I married in 2022. Not exactly "turning around and marrying me".

You made it our business by revealing it in your bizarre, insensitive, unhelpful post.

You falsely claim that grieving produces nothing of any worth. Every grief counselor that I know of through their books and videos says that grieving is a way the heart heals itself and expresses deep love for the deceased loved one. To suppress grieving is psychologically dangerous, Ask your local faith based Grief Share group.

You are more spiritual than the apostle Paul who was concerned about grieving with much sorrow if his friend Epaphroditis died.

Philippians 2

25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.

26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.

27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

 

[Gideon300]

You made it our business by revealing it in your bizarre, insensitive, unhelpful post.

You falsely claim that grieving produces nothing of any worth. Every grief counselor that I know of through their books and videos says that grieving is a way the heart heals itself and expresses deep love for the deceased loved one. To suppress grieving is psychologically dangerous, Ask your local faith based Grief Share group.

You are more spiritual than the apostle Paul who was concerned about grieving with much sorrow if his friend Epaphroditis died.

Philippians 2

25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.

26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.

27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

Believe what you want. I've seen people released from suicidal depression when they have given their burdens to the Lord. If you think that living in grief, despair, guilt and hopelessness is a good thing, bully for you.

 

[Anchorite]

Believe what you want. I've seen people released from suicidal depression when they have given their burdens to the Lord. If you think that living in grief, despair, guilt and hopelessness is a good thing, bully for you.

You know that I did not say anything like that.

But to not grieve the death of a spouse and have zero sorrow when speaking of them is a strong indication there was no deep affection going on.

You said…

QUOTE

Grieving can be for as long or short a time as believers choose the process to be. There is nothing inherently good about grieving.

She has never grieved. She can talk about her late husband without sorrow.

END QUOTE

You have no understanding of the grieving process.

You would see reality at a Grief Share group.

There are no grief therapists or books on grieving that support your views.

 

[Lanolin]

If she fell into depression, she was grieving.

Also, she may have had depression because caregiving is exhausting, and when it ends, often you don't know what to do with yourself. But it's also a relief because the loved one has been released and is not suffering anymore. I know because my mum had cancer and that's what it was like. At first I was numb and didn't know what to do with myself.

You can't say she didn't grieve. She did! She just didn't cry in front of you.

As for going to church, it may help, it may not. I couldn't face going to church, as mum didn't like going. I still don't go to church, where people judge me and many expect me to be happy all the time. It will take time. I saw a grief counsellor and they helped me process, and it was ok to cry in front of them.

When you are grieving you might be vulnerable, maybe you fall into someones arms because you are too exhausted to hold yourself up. Getting out of bed can be a mission and thats when you need someone to lift you up, literally.

 

[Lanolin]

Talking about someone without sorrow doesn't mean that person has never grieved. She may have grieved while her husband was dying (cancer takes a long time to take someone) and as you mention it took 20 years!!!

So don't try and take the credit. Yes we cast our cares upon the Lord, yes He delivers us, but it takes time and we don't get to choose how long it takes.

Getting over a divorce is not the same as losing a loved one forever. Yes both are traumatic, but you didn't have to bury an ex partner. They are still alive.

Burial, funeral, wakes, flowers, memorials, tidying up personal effects, doing things that the loved one specified in their will, maybe they left an inheritance or legacy for us to carry on these all help as they keep us busy but they need to be done if you are next of kin.

Divorcees don't have to do this so its not comparable, I just find it odd that just because your partner/spouse has left and you got a new one, and the widower remarried YOU that you can say all this. Ministering to someone grieving doesn't always mean they instantly find another love to replace the one they had. Going back to 'normal' life takes time.

 

[seoulsearch]

Getting over a divorce is not the same as losing a loved one forever. Yes both are traumatic, but you didn't have to bury an ex partner. They are still alive.
Burial, funeral, wakes, flowers, memorials, tidying up personal effects, doing things that the loved one specified in their will, maybe they left an inheritance or legacy for us to carry on these all help as they keep us busy but they need to be done if you are next of kin.

Divorcees don't have to do this so its not comparable, I just find it odd that just because your partner/spouse has left and you got a new one, and the widower remarried YOU that you can say all this. Ministering to someone grieving doesn't always mean they instantly find another love to replace the one they had. Going back to 'normal' life takes time.

Yes, a divorced person's ex-spouse might still be alive, but it causes a very different kind of grieving -- at least for me. To grieve over someone who is still alive is a different kind of torture.

I didn't have to plan my ex-husband's funeral or bury him -- but I did have to get used to the idea that all the dreams I had for life with him were dead, and had to be buried -- forever. I held on to hope that he would change his mind for a very long time, but it was all in vain.

And I have to live with the grief of knowing that he is (so I've heard -- we've never talked since our divorce, except when he needed to get something back that I later found out belonged to his girlfriend,) happily married to someone else, and that they have kids.

I have never remarried or had kids, and at this point in life, I don't think that's God's plan for me. Most of my peers now have grandchildren, and part of my calling now is to be a support person to them.

In contrast, when my Grandma died, my Grandpa knew she loved him up until the very end. We were blessed enough that the dementia had not taken her memory of people and she knew who we were, and that we loved her.

I am not in any way trying to belittle anyone's grief, but as a divorced person, I won't let anyone belittle my grief either.

My Grandpa knew his wife loved up him up until the day God called her home. I have to live with knowing that my husband actively loves someone else.

I'll live out the rest of my life knowing someone who was once my husband actively chose someone else, then took me to court for divorce and became just another stranger out in the world literally the next day. It's always in the back of my mind that I was seen as lesser than another woman by my own husband.

I will carry the grief he chose someone over me and is sleeping with her while living out the life we once talked about for ourselves with her for the rest of my life.

He's still alive, but my former life, and dreams, were all killed off.

And I'm sure I will continue to grieve over that until the very day I die.

People can call it what they want or criticize me for whatever reason, but we all have different situations and handle things differently.

And I know that for me, my grief will last a lifetime.

 

[Kainos]

Yes, a divorced person's ex-spouse might still be alive, but it causes a very different kind of grieving -- at least for me. To grieve over someone who is still alive is a different kind of torture.

I didn't have to plan my ex-husband's funeral or bury him -- but I did have to get used to the idea that all the dreams I had for life with him were dead, and had to be buried -- forever. I held on to hope that he would change his mind for a very long time, but it was all in vain.

And I have to live with the grief of knowing that he is (so I've heard -- we've never talked since our divorce, except when he needed to get something back that I later found out belonged to his girlfriend,) happily married to someone else, and that they have kids.

I have never remarried or had kids, and at this point in life, I don't think that's God's plan for me. Most of my peers now have grandchildren, and part of my calling now is to be a support person to them.

In contrast, when my Grandma died, my Grandpa knew she loved him up until the very end. We were blessed enough that the dementia had not taken her memory of people and she knew who we were, and that we loved her.

I am not in any way trying to belittle anyone's grief, but as a divorced person, I won't let anyone belittle my grief either.

My Grandpa knew his wife loved up him up until the day God called her home. I have to live with knowing that my husband actively loves someone else.

I'll live out the rest of my life knowing someone who was once my husband actively chose someone else, then took me to court for divorce and became just another stranger out in the world literally the next day. It's always in the back of my mind that I was seen as lesser than another woman by my own husband.

I will carry the grief he chose someone over me and is sleeping with her while living out the life we once talked about for ourselves with her for the rest of my life.

He's still alive, but my former life, and dreams, were all killed off.

And I'm sure I will continue to grieve over that until the very day I die.

People can call it what they want or criticize me for whatever reason, but we all have different situations and handle things differently.

And I know that for me, my grief will last a lifetime.

I have an analogy for you from my own life. A friend from my youth who suffered a premature death.

He joined the British Army at sixteen, serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Fighting for his country was his dream. When he was discharged from the military and returned home for good, he took his own life, because he couldn't survive the peace he had long fought to create.

The man who chose you to make good his desire to marry, likely wasn't equipped for the intended and unintended consequences of marriage. He had a dream, cherry-picked you to realise it, only to run from the practical, lived truths thereafter. He abandoned the visible consequences of his choices, just as my old friend chose to end it all.

Both situations reflect the same psychological paradox: the destructive gap between the struggle to attain a life milestone and the reality of possessing it. Men who confused their desire to fulfill a dream, with the capacity to live in it. Past masters at fighting for the prize, but bereft of the tools to sustain it once the prize is won.

The only difference between your ex-husband and my old friend, is one of them got their dry run all wrong but lived to tell the tale.

For all the anguish his infidelity must have caused you, his spiritual state will have been even worse than your emotional state at its lowest ebb. A man has to be spiritually dead, to have done as he did to you.

 

[Suze]

Good topic that pastors might want to consider if they are allowed to go outside their denominations sermon outlines.

People I served many years and hours with no compensation were invited to my Dad's funeral. He was murdered by a wicked employ at the Clarksburg West Virginia VA Hospital the morning I scheduled to get him into a safer place. That devastated me, but friends and family acted like I had a contagious disease and didn't want to be near me or call or letter of condolence.
I did the entire funeral myself. I was glad friends showed up and ate dinner at the restaurant afterwards, however I was very disappointed with their lack of any compassion. They were all treated well over the years, in spite of the lack of contribution to the ministry. I was genuinely kind to them, but as Paul said, the more I love, the less I be loved.
They would not even let me sit with them. I asked some of them why and most were silent while others only said they did not know how to respond.
These were grown adults.

It's not the same situation as yours but , I found out how cold people really r when I had stage four breast cancer . Only one family member got in touch with a card . People would c me in the street , bald , and didn't even say how r u or even why r u bald !? I understand that some people r afraid of saying the wrong thing but these people were people who had known me for very many years and I had held some of their hands when they had needed someone . I never ever forget a kindness that has been done to me , because they r such rare gems .

 

[seoulsearch]

I have an analogy for you from my own life. A friend from my youth who suffered a premature death.

He joined the British Army at sixteen, serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Fighting for his country was his dream. When he was discharged from the military and returned home for good, he took his own life, because he couldn't survive the peace he had long fought to create.

The man who chose you to make good his desire to marry, likely wasn't equipped for the intended and unintended consequences of marriage. He had a dream, cherry-picked you to realise it, only to run from the practical, lived truths thereafter. He abandoned the visible consequences of his choices, just as my old friend chose to end it all.

Both situations reflect the same psychological paradox: the destructive gap between the struggle to attain a life milestone and the reality of possessing it. Men who confused their desire to fulfill a dream, with the capacity to live in it. Past masters at fighting for the prize, but bereft of the tools to sustain it once the prize is won.

The only difference between your ex-husband and my old friend, is one of them got their dry run all wrong but lived to tell the tale.

For all the anguish his infidelity must have caused you, his spiritual state will have been even worse than your emotional state at its lowest ebb. A man has to be spiritually dead, to have done as he did to you.

Thank you always for your kindness and empathy, @Kainos.

I am so sorry to hear about your friend! How heartbreaking that he couldn't enjoy the fruit of all his hard-fought labor. I pray that God will comfort you, his friends, and family over their tragic loss.

As for myself, over the years, God has definitely used my situation to teach me a lot about life, and the things people go through.

Looking back, I honestly can't say a single bad thing about my ex. Part of why I felt so bonded to him is because he had been through so much in his life, but never put the blame on anyone else, and always strived to learn, grow, and work to move forward. I was lost in a sea of depression and not knowing who I was; he, on the other hand, had been made fun of for the same things and had gone through much worse, but he could take those arrows to the heart and thrived, whereas I felt like I was always shrinking.

I clung to him, hoping he could teach me, or I would someone absorb his super powers.

But we were both still very human. I was emotionally unstable, and in the end, for his own mental health, I know he was looking for something, someone, who was on much sturdier ground than me.

I was surely bitter, angry, and blamed most things on his actions for many years. But over time, God pointed out the many wrongs I had committed and to this day, it has become a huge component of my own sorrow. "Oh Lord, if only I could go back and change... If only I could have said or done this or that differently..."

But I can't.

All the things I felt were someone else's fault -- God saw to it in time that I found myself in many similar situations as the people I blamed for my own demise, and to be honest, I'm sure I made much worse decisions. God convicted me heavily of the judgments I had made on others.

I don't know what my ex's spiritual stance is. I have sometimes wondered if I will see him in heaven (I do think there is a fairly good chance.) I often wonder if I will do something, or already have, to mess up my own chances of going to heaven. Yes, I know all the passages about how nothing can separate us from God's love -- except (just my own personal belief,) a conscious choice to walk away and/or follow persistent sins (including unforgiveness, as God cannot forgive us if we do not forgive.)

If it happens to be that he and I both wind up in heaven, I think that's the only way I could ever face him again -- when God has finally wiped away every tear and sorrow, because I know as it stands, I will carry this grief for the rest of my life.

Part of why I've stayed single is because I've never met anyone who can turn take the bad in life and turn it into fuel for achievement as he did. In the years after our split, he continued to thrive, opening a business, publishing books (his lifelong dream,) and having a family (so I heard, and was sent pictures, by someone who found me on Facebook.) I thanked the person who told me and sent all the pictures, but politely said I had to cut ties, then deleted my account.

He continued to thrive, whereas I felt I had just shrunk all the more.

My heart couldn't take knowing any more.

I know we are all different and of course, many have told me to "just get over it," or that it was "a long time ago." I have also gone many, many rounds with some Christians who told me it was no big deal because we didn't have kids and I could just remarry, while many to this day tell me I can never remarry (imagine being told that at 25 years old,) even though he left for a girlfriend (which I didn't find out until about 8 months after he divorced me, so people always told me I had no Biblical reason for divorce.)

The thing I always wonder is, when these people face with their own trial, whenever and in whatever form it comes, is it just as easy for them to get over whatever they have to face as they tell everyone else it should be.

 

[Lanolin]

I think heartbreak is more of a name for that kind of thing. Sorry seoul, it might seem a bit similar, you cry, you don't know what to do, but there is a name for it.

Maybe we should call it mourning (death) heartbreak (divorce) and crying or sorrow (grieving)

I think in King Davids case with his child/baby when he stopped grieving or fasting/praying (which is really not quite the same as grieving) is because he knew he could always have another child. Also the first one wasn't meant to be and was a consequence of his sin with Bathsheba. He killed her husband over it. That was basically God's life for life karma thing. The baby had not known life, was barely started.

Praying for something to happen, and its doesn't happen is futile. David prayed that his child would live when it was already dying. Praying you'd get someone back who deliberately left you is also futile.

Missing someone is natural. I don't think we need to dismiss that, but it just seems to me different and when people say 'ministering to the grieving' I think of someone who 'lost' but it's also that someone they lost they can't get back and is gone forever. (Often because they died). It hurts and it is painful but you then learn to live without them.

So anyway, what do we do? If we lost a mother, do we become a mother to the person who lost the mother? If they lost a husband, do we replace the husband with another one? If we lost a child, do we just make or adopt another? Does that help???

I remember when my cat died, and I was sorrow, and distraught, and a workmate said that I can always just get another. But it wasn't about that, it's more 'she was family'. So I just found that insensitive at the time.