Minor/Major Addiction and wavering faith?

[Dai3234]

Hello, I was thinking about what "Paul" said, about don't have idolatry, drunkenness, immorality etc.

Looking at drunkenness and "wavering faith". I thought what is not in alignment as a Christian in regard to types of Addiction. Cigarettes are an addiction. Giving them up is hard. But is it wavering faith or other that struggling quitters have. Because an alcoholic smoker could believe in Christ, but can they not be saved because of this?

In revelation it is mentioned that believers help the wavering, stand strong etc. But what happens if you die in these states? Thinking we are not strong enough etc.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus is Not Santa Claus - Robert Farrar Capon


"The words of that dreadful Christmas song sum up perfectly the only kind of messianic behavior the human race, in it’s self-destructive folly, is prepared to accept: ‘He’s making a list, he’s checking it twice; he’s going to find out whose naughty and nice’ – and so on into the dark night of all the tests this naughty world can never pass. For my money, what Jesus senses clearly and for the first time in the coin in the fishes mouth is that He is not, thank God, Santa Clause. He will come to the worlds sins with no list to check, not test to grade, not debts to collect, no scores to settle. He will wipe away the handwriting that was against us and nail it to His cross. (Col. 2:14) He will save, not some minuscule coterie of good little boys and girls with religious money in their piggy banks, but all the stone-broke, deadbeat, overextended children of this world whom He, as the son of man- the Holy Child of God, the ultimate Big Kid, if you please – will set free in the liberation of His death. And when He senses that… well, it is simply to laugh. He racks a “gone fishing” sign over the sweatshop of religion, and for all the debts of all sinners who ever lived, He provides exact change for free. How nice it would be if the church could only remember to keep itself in on the joke."

 

[Magenta]

The topic of smoking comes up from time to time. Many struggle with it. I found when I became willing to give it completely over to God, that He removed it from me completely. Desire to smoke, gone. Addiction to smoking, gone. Cravings, gone. Immediately. People rely on a lot of gimmicks to help them: gum, patches, vaping etc. I found them an impediment, a crutch adding to my illusion of desiring to quit. I discovered on a deeper level, while employing the use of other aids, that I was not trusting God, and that I was in fact not willing to give it to God because I knew then I would really have to stop, and in that condition, I had not yet reached truly wanting to stop, because really I liked smoking even though it was slowly killing me. I wanted to find the magic number I could smoke every day without it killing me. No such number exists. I came to see that I was trying to manage something I was powerless over, and that only God could truly help me. Thank God!

 

[Blain]

Hello, I was thinking about what "Paul" said, about don't have idolatry, drunkenness, immorality etc.

Looking at drunkenness and "wavering faith". I thought what is not in alignment as a Christian in regard to types of Addiction. Cigarettes are an addiction. Giving them up is hard. But is it wavering faith or other that struggling quitters have. Because an alcoholic smoker could believe in Christ, but can they not be saved because of this?

In revelation it is mentioned that believers help the wavering, stand strong etc. But what happens if you die in these states? Thinking we are not strong enough etc.

I am highly addicted to caffeine and have not been able to quit no matter how much I pray however my love and bond with God is strong this is because even though I am addicted to caffeine he is far more important to me in my heart. sometimes addictions are an exercise of trust and growth in him sometimes not but it doesn't have to do with our salvation and it was never our own strength that mattered.

I don't think addiction is the same as wavering faith, now if you begin to care far more about your addiction than you do God then you have a problem there but the heart's desires are different from the bodies, my body craves caffeine but my heart craves God and that is what makes the difference

 

[Dai3234]

Jesus is Not Santa Claus - Robert Farrar Capon


"The words of that dreadful Christmas song sum up perfectly the only kind of messianic behavior the human race, in it’s self-destructive folly, is prepared to accept: ‘He’s making a list, he’s checking it twice; he’s going to find out whose naughty and nice’ – and so on into the dark night of all the tests this naughty world can never pass. For my money, what Jesus senses clearly and for the first time in the coin in the fishes mouth is that He is not, thank God, Santa Clause. He will come to the worlds sins with no list to check, not test to grade, not debts to collect, no scores to settle. He will wipe away the handwriting that was against us and nail it to His cross. (Col. 2:14) He will save, not some minuscule coterie of good little boys and girls with religious money in their piggy banks, but all the stone-broke, deadbeat, overextended children of this world whom He, as the son of man- the Holy Child of God, the ultimate Big Kid, if you please – will set free in the liberation of His death. And when He senses that… well, it is simply to laugh. He racks a “gone fishing” sign over the sweatshop of religion, and for all the debts of all sinners who ever lived, He provides exact change for free. How nice it would be if the church could only remember to keep itself in on the joke."

Your point is confusing as I'm talking about "wavering faith", trying to understand what and when wavering faith is and what weakness and doubt of self are. Revelation says something about helping the wavering in faith. Why? They have faith so aren't they saved anyway? Is there something else to this point?

 

[Blain]

Always remember the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak however when your thoughts are set on the kingdom of God the flesh loses it's power

 

[mcubed]

The only thing that sends people to hell is to reject Y-shua as Lord and Savior. Smoking and drinking alcohol may make you smell like hell and feel that way but will not put you there…. A saved person will have conviction for their sin; it’s one great way to know you are saved. And the Lord will deal with it just like He does all of our other sins.

 

[Blain]

Your point is confusing as I'm talking about "wavering faith", trying to understand what and when wavering faith is and what weakness and doubt of self are. Revelation says something about helping the wavering in faith. Why? They have faith so aren't they saved anyway? Is there something else to this point?

Why? because that is what love is. When you see a friend fall down and is hurt even though they can get back up on their own doesn't your instinct tell you to help them back up and ask them if their ok?

Not everyone is strong enough to be able to stand on their own and will fall back down and never be able to get back up, some people need a boost to keep their faith strong and this is how we all are at some point even the strongest of warriors have a limit and if they fall from exhaustion and have no one to help them back up they will just lay there. even Jesus himself needed help from father when he was about to go die on the cross he told father he was afraid and asked for help.

 

[Dai3234]

Why? because that is what love is. When you see a friend fall down and is hurt even though they can get back up on their own doesn't your instinct tell you to help them back up and ask them if their ok?

Not everyone is strong enough to be able to stand on their own and will fall back down and never be able to get back up, some people need a boost to keep their faith strong and this is how we all are at some point even the strongest of warriors have a limit and if they fall from exhaustion and have no one to help them back up they will just lay there. even Jesus himself needed help from father when he was about to go die on the cross he told father he was afraid and asked for help.

I understand your point, but this was in relation to revelation talking about wavering faith and not the general principle of helping others. I don't get why it's said for that day?

 

[Blain]

I understand your point, but this was in relation to revelation talking about wavering faith and not the general principle of helping others. I don't get why it's said for that day?

Because in that time things are going to be very very hard, revelation is about a time this world has never seen before a storm of blood and anguish the likes this world has never seen and never will again and in this time people will still be being saved but they will be weak at times and their faith and hope will begin to waver doubt and fear will sink in and will attempt to overtake them.

 

[breno785au]

Always remember the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak however when your thoughts are set on the kingdom of God the flesh loses it's power

I think a part of what Jesus was saying when He said that was, they haven't yet made their flesh conform to the will of their spirit. I believe we should train our flesh (body) to do what our spirit wants, not having our spirit do what the flesh wants. Or something to that extent..easier said than done lol but with practice...
Jesus certainly submitted His flesh to the spirit even to death.

 

[Dai3234]

Because in that time things are going to be very very hard, revelation is about a time this world has never seen before a storm of blood and anguish the likes this world has never seen and never will again and in this time people will still be being saved but they will be weak at times and their faith and hope will begin to waver doubt and fear will sink in and will attempt to overtake them.

Thanks, yes I missed the obvious. I looked too deep into it. I think it was because Paul was on about how to live as Christians which pointed to listening to God at all times. Accepting all. Not ignoring, like continuing with Addiction. Addiction seemed to me as not gods will so I thought, am I saying my faith isn't strong enough, or the evil/addiction is stronger. Making me think I'm opposing gods will and just carrying on with potentially dangerous "wavering faith" etc.

 

[Willie-T]

I have always found this story inspiring:

Once on Mount Athos there was a monk who lived in Karyes. He drank and got drunk every day and was the cause of scandal to the pilgrims. Eventually he died and this relieved some of the faithful who went on to tell Elder Paisios that they were delighted that this huge problem was finally solved.

Father Paisios answered them that he knew about the death of the monk, after seeing the entire battalion of angels who came to collect his soul. The pilgrims were amazed and some protested and tried to explain to the Elder of whom they were talking about, thinking that the Elder did not understand.

Elder Paisios explained to them: "This particular monk was born in Asia Minor, shortly before the destruction by the Turks when they gathered all the boys. So as not to take him from their parents, they would take him with them to the reaping, and so he wouldn't cry, they just put raki into his milk in order for him to sleep. Therefore he grew up as an alcoholic.

Then he found an elder and said to him that he was an alcoholic. The elder told him to do prostrations and prayers every night and beg the Panagia to help him to reduce by one the glasses he drank.

After a year he managed with struggle and repentance to make the 20 glasses he drank into 19 glasses. The struggle continued over the years and he reached 2-3 glasses, with which he would still get drunk."

The world for years saw an alcoholic monk who scandalized the pilgrims, but God saw a fighter who fought a long struggle to reduce his passion.

Without knowing what each one is trying to do what he wants to do, what right do we have to judge his effort?

Source: Translated by John Sanidopoulos

 

[lastofall]

First cigarettes are not mind altering; as for drunkenness, it is plainly listed, not by Paul, but by the Holy Spirit of Truth speaking through the Apostle Paul. In (Galatians 5:20) "witchcraft" means pharmaceuticals which pertains to mind-altering agents such as alcohol or any other drug that does so: cigarettes as well as aspirin are such as do not. As for perishing in a mind-altering state, it is evident by its very nature; the scripture tell us that if we be beside ourselves it is to God, and if we be sober, it is for others. [for me anyway] it is a matter between that person and God, and it is not for us to guess at it. No matter how much we try to rearrange sin as not sin, it is still sin to God: if I am addicted to stealing or lying, I still must repent and own my sin, no matter how much I would have the Lord overlook my sin; there is consequence to sin. If we truly believe in Christ we will repent, because if we do believe indeed we will want to repent and own our sins, and deny our own will. Christ Jesus teaches us to repent for the remission (passing over, forgiveness) of sins, and He came to call sinners to repentance: but the cold hard Truth is that many reject His call, and many walk away, and walk no more with Him. As for us we can only wish with God that those that oppose themselves would not perish, but would rather come to repentance: because it is the very same mercy that saves us that can save them; there is no difference.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

I guess it really depends on the person and their relationship to whatever the activity is. I would ask myself:

Do I have to do this to feel "normal?"
Does the thought of NOT doing said thing make me nervous or uncomfortable?
Is it something that negatively effects my or someone else's health/happiness?
Is it something that, if I just dropped it for 10 years, would my life really be worse for it?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Your point is confusing as I'm talking about "wavering faith", trying to understand what and when wavering faith is and what weakness and doubt of self are. Revelation says something about helping the wavering in faith. Why? They have faith so aren't they saved anyway? Is there something else to this point?

It seems to come as a surprise to many that God actually wants to save people. That He isn't looking for ways to disqualify us.

 

[Magenta]

First cigarettes are not mind altering;

Nicotine most definitely is classified as a psychoactive drug.

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TD]See chart here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_drug[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[oldethennew]

Jesus always looks for ways to 'qualify' us: He often leaves it up to us and how we honor
our weakness above what we feel He would approve of...it's a TEST, meant only for us
and to awaken us to how much we desire to Love and obey Him and the ways that we
feel that He approves of us...

 

[oldethennew]

thank you Willie,

for your gracious understanding!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus always looks for ways to 'qualify' us: He often leaves it up to us and how we honor
our weakness above what we feel He would approve of...it's a TEST, meant only for us
and to awaken us to how much we desire to Love and obey Him and the ways that we
feel that He approves of us...

I'd say that Jesus looks for those who accept that He is Himself the One, the only One, who "qualifies" us.