Miracle workers who couldn't heal themselves!!!

[TheLearner]

So you don't believe the story of the boy with a demon? that means you don't believe "if thou canst only believe, all things are possible to him that believeth"

I was involved with some casting out. They were verified a month later, found it worked.

 

[TheLearner]

why didn't Jesus? or Paul? why didn't Jesus raise everybody from the dead? you'll see from Acts that on Paul's last journey he healed everyone on the Isle of Melita [rather God healed thru Paul] even aprons taken from his body.

Ireneus witnessed all manner of miracles in his day.

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/irenaeus/...demonstration_of_the_apostolic_preaching.html
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0134.htm
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book3.html
find heali

 

[TheLearner]

Many are healed ...

thar'e a whole parcel of preachers preaching salvation and nobody gets saved ... loads come forward to be "prayed" and they still don't get saved. All that gets swept under the carpet in evangelical churches.

when someone steps forward to be healed you can't sweep it under the carpet.

All the Churches I ever been associated with assigned mentors with new believers, from time to time others did follow up.

 

[TheLearner]

start at #34

 

[oyster67]

Many are healed ...

thar'e a whole parcel of preachers preaching salvation and nobody gets saved ... loads come forward to be "prayed" and they still don't get saved. All that gets swept under the carpet in evangelical churches.

when someone steps forward to be healed you can't sweep it under the carpet.

Just like in the old days when they showed up for the bread and fish on one day and mocked Him on the next.

Mark 2:9
“Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?”

Isaiah 55:2
“Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.”

So many are ignorant concerning that which is truly good... that which lasts for all eternity.

 

[Edify]

"TV evangelists" are shysters, diverting money from poor people, while teaching miracles, healings, & the like are guilty of 2 major sins: 1. Teaching false doctrine to the max, and 2. Even worse, spreading unbelief among true christians. This is why some on here don't believe in much of anything.
The same people who say that all scripture is true claims God don't do what He used to do, believing early church fathers & denominational teachers over the Word of God. They inadvertently become unbelieving, spreading unbelief to the rest of the body of Christ, making themselves false teachers like the ones they accuse.

 

[TheLearner]

read to here, good discussion all

 

[Evmur]

"TV evangelists" are shysters, diverting money from poor people, while teaching miracles, healings, & the like are guilty of 2 major sins: 1. Teaching false doctrine to the max, and 2. Even worse, spreading unbelief among true christians. This is why some on here don't believe in much of anything.
The same people who say that all scripture is true claims God don't do what He used to do, believing early church fathers & denominational teachers over the Word of God. They inadvertently become unbelieving, spreading unbelief to the rest of the body of Christ, making themselves false teachers like the ones they accuse.

actually they're [Pentecostal and Charismatics] are the only churches that are growing

 

[Evmur]

No one here brother, friend are mocking Our Lord. We are looking at us mere carbon life forms. Many false claims are made about miracles. When investigated, it never adds up.

I pay attention to the ones that do, there are plenty.

 

[Evmur]

We must learn to discern (with the help of the Holy Spirit.) Soon there will be more wolves than sheep!

' course if there were no sheeps the wolves would not come.

 

[Evmur]

"TV evangelists" are shysters, diverting money from poor people, while teaching miracles, healings, & the like are guilty of 2 major sins: 1. Teaching false doctrine to the max, and 2. Even worse, spreading unbelief among true christians. This is why some on here don't believe in much of anything.
The same people who say that all scripture is true claims God don't do what He used to do, believing early church fathers & denominational teachers over the Word of God. They inadvertently become unbelieving, spreading unbelief to the rest of the body of Christ, making themselves false teachers like the ones they accuse.

Christians ought not to go by what's on telly. ... unless it agrees with scripture. Some good preachers on telly too.

 

[TheLearner]

Many Churches in my Area are growing. I don't know about other areas.

 

[TheLearner]

https://www.churchtrac.com/articles/the-state-of-church-attendance-trends-and-statistics-2023
https://reachrightstudios.com/church-statistics-2023/
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/modeling-the-future-of-religion-in-america/
https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...us-composition-has-changed-in-recent-decades/
https://donorbox.org/nonprofit-blog/church-statistics
best https://outreach100.com/fastest-growing-churches-in-america

 

[TheLearner]

I was curious

 

[shittim]

The Healing Myth: A Critique of the Modern Healing Movementbooks.google.com › books
J. Keir Howard · 2013

There was a great deal of “hype,” not only in the advertising brochures, but also on the first day of the conference. Initially Wimber gave the impression that it is commonplace for non-Christians who attend his church in Yorba Linda, California, to be converted one day, and the next to be out on the street casting out demons and healing the sick without even knowing John 3:16 (Wimber’s illustration, not mine.) Yet on the second day of the conference there was almost a complete reversal of this impression, with Wimber acknowledging that they see many who are not healed and that some people for whom they pray, die rather than recover. ...
To become sidetracked on signs and wonders is to be entranced by sensationalism and is not something which Jesus encouraged; in fact it was something which he discouraged probably because he was only too aware that people would seek him for the wrong reasons. Such an overdue concern with miraculous signs reminds one of Augustine’s comment: “Jesus is usually sought after for something else, not for his own sake.”

A third disturbing aspect of the conference was the strong anti-intellectualism which Wimber exhibited from time to time. His insistence that “At some point critical thinking must be laid aside” is nothing less than dangerous. Wimber several times equated critical thinking with unbelief, and his apparent inability to distinguish the two is most disturbing. At one point he asked: “When are we going to see a generation who doesn’t try to understand this book [the Bible], but just believes it?” In effect, this is saying “When are we going to see a generation that believes my interpretation of this book without question?” This strongly anti-intellectual strain which shows through in Wimber is typical of nineteenth century American revivalism and is just the sort of thing that evangelicalism has been trying to live down in the twentieth century. It disparages God’s gracious gift of our mind and reflects ill on a creator who chose to endow us with the ability to think critically.

At the same time as he disparaged the intellect, Wimber attempted to use intellectual argument to convince his listeners of his case. In a lecture on “world views” Wimber attempted to argue that the Western “Worldview” is the product of Platonic dualistic thinking, first introduced into Western theology by Augustine. Its growing acceptance “during the 17th and 18th centuries” caused a “new science based on materialistic naturalism” to emerge which resulted in a “secularization of science and a mystification of religion.”1 Wimber seems to have little appreciation that throughout the centuries Christians have struggled with these questions; for most in his audience this grossly-simplified explanation is enough. There was no acknowledgment of the extent to which Western thinking is rooted in a Biblical understanding. At this point it would be worthwhile asking if Wimber has given serious thought as to how other “world views” have affected his own, particularly when it comes to the methodology presented as regards to healing. In the seminar on healing, one of the phenomena one was instructed to look for was “hot-spots,” a buzz-word in the New Age thinking emerging in California, which has a hearty blend of Oriental mysticism and Eastern religion.

Aside from these questions about Wimber’s grasp of intellectual questions, there are some serious difficulties in his theology for a thinking evangelical. In the fist place, his use of Scripture is highly problematic. His starting place seems to be his own experience and Scripture is drawn in to proof-text his own position. This was particularly seen in his teaching methodology regarding healing. People were taught a theology of healing based on the observation of phenomenological responses (shaking, stiffening, respiration, laughter, fluttering of eyelids, etc.) and were encouraged to use such subjective criteria as the basis on which to evaluate spiritual responses.

A second theological difficulty is Wimber’s radical Arminianism (some might well argue it
https://www.equip.org/articles/assessing-the-wimber-phenomenon/

Are we not all in a process becoming conformed to the image of the Son?
John was closer than many/most and did a great deal to advance the Kingdom and the normal healing the Father offers His own.
Nobody heals anybody, the power of God is available to heal all.

 

[Gideon300]

You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions. Your starting point is the belief that the Pentecostal interpretation of scripture is the correct one. That leaves you in a bind: If that interpretation is correct, then we must do miracles today. When no genuine miracles can be produced, they must be manufactured by any means necessary. This opens the door to all kinds of hocus pocus.

If there really are miracle workers out there, why is it all we have are a lot of stories and no substance? Until you address the problem of your faulty interpretation of scripture there's no hope for you.

What do you want? How can you "prove" anything to the degree that you demand? My wife prayed for me and I was healed of pancreatitis. Some friends prayed for me when I had atrial fibrillation. My heart rate returned to normal just before the medics were to restart my heart. I prayed for a young child burning up with fever. Healing was instantaneous. I prayed for someone with a toothache that stopped him riding his motorbike. He was healed instantly. Go on, call me a liar. I don't care. I was there, you were not.

I know someone who was DOA after a head on with a truck. The local people called him the "miracle man." He was being cleaned up ready for the morgue when the wardsman heard my friend Mike make a sound. The wardsman was a member of the Albury Pentecostal church. I won't go into the awful details, but there was no way that Mike should have survived. Mike was on his way to see me when he had the head on.

I was healed instantly of a liver complaint, caused by years of excessive alcohol consumption. I'd been saved for a few months and I knew nothing of God's power to heal. Later that day, I was healed of chronic nosebleeds caused by a broken nose I got in a fight.

God is bigger than your limited understanding. God has not changed. Of course you will never experience God's healing because you are full of unbelief. Your loss.

 

[JaumeJ]

As the good hymn goes, "God's not dead, He is alive." Amen.

 

[Obedience]

Jesus came to cure the disease of sin.
Physical diseases needs doctors and nurses.

 

[shittim]

Jesus came to cure the disease of sin.
Physical diseases needs doctors and nurses.[/QUOTE

Like the ones that created and administered the poison ykw?
That mistaken belief is why the "church" has failed.
"By His stripes we were healed"

 

[Obedience]

Like the ones that created and administered the poison ykw?
That mistaken belief is why the "church" has failed.
"By His stripes we were healed"

What's the difference between what you said and what I said?