Money, Coffee, and Selfish Christians

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
"I think we get comfortable." Normally, there's nothing wrong with that, but it definitely doesn't produce anything spectacular in anyone.

In 2004 I was pretty new with walking with The Lord. I think it was the first time I had sort of broken free of the religion of my upbringing. I had been attending this new up and coming church with some pretty good musicians so I was interested in trying out. One weekend they announced from the pulpit that they were looking for musicians so I sent am email to which I received no reply. I sent another and I received no reply.

The tryouts were coming up on a Saturday but no one had bothered to call or email me back. I went back and forth from being offended to giving them the benefit of the doubt. I landed on giving them the benefit of the doubt and showed up for tryouts with my acoustic guitar. As I sat on the stairs of this brand new church warming up someone came up to me and asked what I was doing there.... To which I replied that I was there to try out for a guitar slot on the worship team. The person seemed somewhat annoyed that I wasn't scheduled and reluctantly agreed to let me try out. I played a song called "song for George" by Eric Johnson. When I was finished I looked up and all four of the people auditioning me, including the pastors wife, the worship leader and two other people were staring at me with mouth agape.

Needless to say, if I hadn't had the tenacity to just show up, I would have been like so many others who slip thru the cracks. Churches are full of people who are imperfect , addicted to coffee, comfortable with their circle of friends, Leary of outsiders and sometimes downright inconsiderate. Whether this has anything to do with coffee I have no idea...but I have made a commitment to never be that guy... To the best of my ability, never let any wayward soul fall thru the cracks on the account of me.
 
"I think we get comfortable." Normally, there's nothing wrong with that, but it definitely doesn't produce anything spectacular in anyone.

spectacular like what?:) people can be comfortable in many ways (in confidence, contentment, trust, yes, in their wealth, in routines in life). is being comfortable a sin, too like coffee?:(

where does the bible say we have to produce something spectacular? there's nothing wrong with that either, i guess. inventing the lightbulb was pretty cool. things like that. but do you mean, like in ministry or christian deeds or making mega-churches and stuff?

7And He began speaking a parable to the invited guests when He noticed how they had been picking out the places of honor at the table, saying to them, 8"When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for someone more distinguished than you may have been invited by him, 9and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this man,' and then in disgrace you proceed to occupy the last place

sorry if i misunderstood you Allin. i'm not at all spectacular and i doubt anything i produce is either. is that okay or is God mad at me?
 
Maybe I will write a book with the above title someday (it sounds interesting and would probably grab a lot of people's attention)... or better yet write a screenplay. A screenplay on this topic will probably have me crucified by about 80% of churches in America. Money, coffee, and selfish Christians. What's that about?

I hate to keep pointing out that today we as Americans (Western nations basically) are encouraged and taught to not think-- to not be proactive-- but to instead sort of just allow info. in and info. out-- to be reactive. In other words, we are people full of knowledge (which means we know a lot of things) but who don't really think about things (which means we don't understand much about what we know); we rarely ever consider things but take things at face value and don't see beyond the veneer, facade, front, or face. This is for you Christians who aren't afraid to think scientifically or to use logic, reason, and observational skills (as well as for those who have never thought about any of this if they will observe it).

I have noticed that there are two things that tend to make Christians in America almost immediately transform: money and coffee. Yes. Let me explain:

1. Money first. If you take an average Christian and make him a leader of some kind-- pastor, worship leader, Sunday school teacher, etc.-- he or she remains approachable, normal, human for the most part. As soon as they begin to get paid, they almost immediately transform. It is unreal. Furthermore, when money is included in the equation, it changes the way a Christian thinks. A Christian counselor, for instance, who could once freely counsel others now requires money to see a person and cannot fathom that while he or she perhaps should be paid for their work and hours, it is wrong to turn away a person who cannot afford to pay. Money tends to blind Christians to the obvious as it draws out the selfishness in him or her. There are many ways to test this one being to ask a paid minister if he would still minister without pay.

2. Coffee. Coffee is like satan's favorite drink or something. While we all know that 'money changes people' (it really doesn't; it draws the self-centered nature to the fore and out of hiding), probably no one has yet noticed that coffee tends to absolutely transform Christians or perhaps I should say Christian settings. There is a comfort resident in coffee that makes people in general and Christians in particular want to 'relax'. The problem with this in Christian circles is that it draws out the human self-centered nature which is directly contrary to the Spirit and the things of God. So, what does this look like practically? You can actually study this and it will blow your socks off (to think that a simple drink can decide the spiritual atmosphere or the reception or rejection of the Lord seems like quite a stretch, but believe me it's not theory): gather a group of Christians to a prayer meeting, cell group, Bible study, anything; tell them it's a gathering where you will be seeking God (i.e. doing something 'spiritual' like prayer, Bible reading, etc.). Let them get together, sit down; start leading the conversation to the things of God. The spiritual climate will begin to change. Introduce some snacks and juice or soda as you continue talking about the things of God. When several minutes (about fifteen) have passed, then introduce coffee. The results are beyond shocking (generally). Anyone who knows how to sense the Lord's presence will be surprised that if the Holy Spirit is around, He begins to leave when coffee is introduced. How can this possibly be? Is this possible? Can such a claim be made? What happens is that coffee, again, tends to 'relax' people (and it's almost like a god in itself; it's not a god at all, it only feeds the god called fleshly comfort); it makes people 'me-focused'. Because the flesh strives against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, when coffee begins to caress and soothe the flesh, the flesh will surface more (the one you feed more (flesh or spirit) is the one that will have the preeminence), and the Holy Spirit will naturally pull back or pull away. If anyone is discerning or wants to observe things like this, you will note that churches that make serving coffee an intrinsic part of their system will pretty much always tend to be completely superficial and, while often Charismatic churches that 'welcome the Holy Spirit' really dwell in the soul and a self-centered 'gimme, gimme, gimme' attitude toward God. Ladies and gentlemen, this is very real, a study that I would be willing to present anywhere and at any time.

This, of course, isn't saying that money and coffee are bad; however, their effects on Christians are some that I have continually observed much to my dismay... especially coffee. Coffee is almost like its own alcohol and, for those who know how to distinguish flesh from spirit, makes Christians appear to be evil... like, for real; for this reason, I call apparently superficial churches 'Starbucks Churches' or obviously superficial Christians 'iPhone Christians' (because of the superficiality that Starbucks and such coffee places (and iPhone, etc.) engender and encourage in people): they operate constantly in the flesh (gimme, gimme, gimme) and the soul (feelings or the flesh's alternative for the Holy Spirit) and say that because the Holy Spirit operates through gifts among them then it means they're 'doing it right'. It's plain outstanding. They have some of these shows on TV about paranormal investigators and such. Those guys barely know what they're doing; however, there is a way in Christ to observe the spiritual climates of places especially among Christians. God has really linked the natural and spiritual so that everything is within reach: you can take a pad and pen (research material) and go into Christian circles starting with churches and observe things in both the natural (what your natural senses can sense) and the spiritual (what some people call 'vibes'). I responded to a thread and thought I'd share this. People who want to be proactive or who are willing to consider things and see beyond the facade will be learning a lot more than everyone else and will be making sense of things way before those things make sense to others (you'd be surprised the changes in spiritual atmosphere from low-income neighborhoods to middle-upper class ones, etc.; new science). Makes sense to me ;) Now, on to more important things... Where's the other half of me :)

Well...I am flat broke and I hate coffee... I also serve the Lord for free ! lol
AND I am happy :)
 
There are so many wrong things to point out, I try to go very slowly. Lol. One thing at a time. I've got my sights on coffee right now since people see it as a hotter topic (pun intended) than money and its effect on the self-centered nature. The topic isn't empty at all; my coffee cup is... and I hope yours is too :p

still laughing! I know what you are saying all I'm saying is coffee and cigarettes are usually a package deal! pun intended but hey I'll let you do the coffee for now and when the smoke clears you can do other things. more pun oh btw not a coffee drinker or smoker!
 
Listen, if you do not want to ingest coffee, then don't. This is the second post you have submitted that has trashed coffee.
I think now after reading this, I will prepare a full pot of coffee and drink it simply to be rebellious to this post.........that is, after I consume a few beers. I am sick of being preached to as to what I can drink or eat. No matter what I do, I am going to die, period. I look forward to getting out of here, because this place is a mess, and it aint gonna get any better.

You'd probably be a better sport about all this if you didn't drink coffee first thing in the morning before getting on here to read. Should I go to a bar tonight or set up a soapbox downtown and preach against coffee. I think as long as I don't preach against coffee on Sundays, I should be safe every other day of the week. Don't be rebellious; you're 61 years old. Us younger people need mature adults, otherwise, we never grow up (stop being self-centered) ourselves.
 
In 2004 I was pretty new with walking with The Lord. I think it was the first time I had sort of broken free of the religion of my upbringing. I had been attending this new up and coming church with some pretty good musicians so I was interested in trying out. One weekend they announced from the pulpit that they were looking for musicians so I sent am email to which I received no reply. I sent another and I received no reply.

The tryouts were coming up on a Saturday but no one had bothered to call or email me back. I went back and forth from being offended to giving them the benefit of the doubt. I landed on giving them the benefit of the doubt and showed up for tryouts with my acoustic guitar. As I sat on the stairs of this brand new church warming up someone came up to me and asked what I was doing there.... To which I replied that I was there to try out for a guitar slot on the worship team. The person seemed somewhat annoyed that I wasn't scheduled and reluctantly agreed to let me try out. I played a song called "song for George" by Eric Johnson. When I was finished I looked up and all four of the people auditioning me, including the pastors wife, the worship leader and two other people were staring at me with mouth agape.

Needless to say, if I hadn't had the tenacity to just show up, I would have been like so many others who slip thru the cracks. Churches are full of people who are imperfect , addicted to coffee, comfortable with their circle of friends, Leary of outsiders and sometimes downright inconsiderate. Whether this has anything to do with coffee I have no idea...but I have made a commitment to never be that guy... To the best of my ability, never let any wayward soul fall thru the cracks on the account of me.

I agree with that importunate and resilient attitude. I remember where Jesus said that a shepherd leaves the ninety-nine to find the one, and I like where Paul says, "If a man is overtaken in any sin, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness" (Gal. 6:1). Not letting people slip through the cracks is going against the grain today; but it is pri-tty important.
 
spectacular like what?:) people can be comfortable in many ways (in confidence, contentment, trust, yes, in their wealth, in routines in life). is being comfortable a sin, too like coffee?:(

where does the bible say we have to produce something spectacular? there's nothing wrong with that either, i guess. inventing the lightbulb was pretty cool. things like that. but do you mean, like in ministry or christian deeds or making mega-churches and stuff?

7And He began speaking a parable to the invited guests when He noticed how they had been picking out the places of honor at the table, saying to them, 8"When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for someone more distinguished than you may have been invited by him, 9and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this man,' and then in disgrace you proceed to occupy the last place

sorry if i misunderstood you Allin. i'm not at all spectacular and i doubt anything i produce is either. is that okay or is God mad at me?

Okay, I'm talking from a viewpoint of looking at things several different ways at once, so if I say for instance, "I don't like coffee", I mean just that. It doesn't mean anything more than that. Coffee actually has good qualities, but I'm not talking about that nor about any bad qualities it has but about how it has surfaced and often surfaces the bad qualities in people, not in coffee. And I don't have a problem with being comfortable (I plan to be comfortable in my confidence, my contentment, trust, my wealth, and everyday routine); I'm saying that people who sit still don't make progress (I know I didn't say it that way).

I chuckled reading that passage you posted because it is fitting in so many ways. I think so many people need the places of honor, and this really is because of a lack of overall contentment in life (overall life contentment makes people restful; people who are happy (content) have peace of mind and don't strive for anything but are comfortable with themselves). Anyway, none of us is spectacular; thank God He is spectacular enough not to care.
 
Well...I am flat broke and I hate coffee... I also serve the Lord for free ! lol
AND I am happy :)

I think anyone who hates coffee gets first dibs on happiness. Lol. Okay, okay, I'm just going with the flow. So, you're happy. I'm guessing you don't live within the continental United States :p I'm still working on it. Happiness, I mean.
 
still laughing! I know what you are saying all I'm saying is coffee and cigarettes are usually a package deal! pun intended but hey I'll let you do the coffee for now and when the smoke clears you can do other things. more pun oh btw not a coffee drinker or smoker!

;) Yeah, some people smoke with their coffee. Ha ha, when the smoke clears. Good puns, bro. Let's see how far this thread carries.
 
I don't think coffee drinking has anything to do with being a selfish Christian.

Whether there is coffee or not, you will have either deep or shallow conversation. There is a time and place for both. I believe God wants us to relax and enjoy life occassionally. that is why He made a Sabbath. So that people could rest, just as He rested from His work.

You do God's work 6 days of the week (for any job you do you should do unto God) then rest one day. otherwise you will get burnt out. I don't consider reading the Bible "work"

I really think people should read the Bible more, maybe they will see how some people called Jesus a drunkard.

So besides smoking and coffee, what other man made rules would you like to impose upon others salvation?

does it help you feel better to think you are "better" than others by refraining from indulging in those activities?
 
LOL let's be besties !! We are already siblings in Christ so... :)

Besties huh? You do know i'm a guy, therefore the term 'besties' isn't in my vocabulary hahaha.. but umm... yeah, lets do that. Thing you said. haha
 
I don't think coffee drinking has anything to do with being a selfish Christian.

Whether there is coffee or not, you will have either deep or shallow conversation. There is a time and place for both. I believe God wants us to relax and enjoy life occassionally. that is why He made a Sabbath. So that people could rest, just as He rested from His work.

You do God's work 6 days of the week (for any job you do you should do unto God) then rest one day. otherwise you will get burnt out. I don't consider reading the Bible "work"

I really think people should read the Bible more, maybe they will see how some people called Jesus a drunkard.

So besides smoking and coffee, what other man made rules would you like to impose upon others salvation?

does it help you feel better to think you are "better" than others by refraining from indulging in those activities?

I don't view things through lenses of who is better and who is worse, so you probably should try again. As far as other rules to impose on people's salvation, I have several more:

1. Don't buy coffee.

2. Don't drink coffee.

3. Don't hang out with people who drink coffee.

Do you think those are too stringent? I know a place in the Bible that says not to partake of coffee. (God, I hope you can slow down and find some humor in things.) We are actually supposed to be comfortable all the time, not just sometimes; but being comfortable doesn't make us 'better people', so it's best we don't persist in being that way all the time. Put your hands over your head and catch it quick! I know much of what I said has already gone over you. :rolleyes:
 
This thread makes me feel better about hating coffee.

Seriously, that stuff tastes awful.
 
This thread makes me feel better about hating coffee.

Seriously, that stuff tastes awful.

Glad to have helped liberate you from the chains of pressure to drink coffee or else. Lol. It makes me sort of wretch, the taste of it. I drink hot chocolate when it gets cold out.
 
I don't view things through lenses of who is better and who is worse, so you probably should try again. As far as other rules to impose on people's salvation, I have several more:

1. Don't buy coffee.

2. Don't drink coffee.

3. Don't hang out with people who drink coffee.

Do you think those are too stringent? I know a place in the Bible that says not to partake of coffee. (God, I hope you can slow down and find some humor in things.) We are actually supposed to be comfortable all the time, not just sometimes; but being comfortable doesn't make us 'better people', so it's best we don't persist in being that way all the time. Put your hands over your head and catch it quick! I know much of what I said has already gone over you. :rolleyes:

Lighten up, big guy. Try pouring a shot of bourbon in your next steaming mug of java. Personally, I do not drink alcohol but I feel that it will loosen up your tight attitude.
 
Okay, I'm talking from a viewpoint of looking at things several different ways at once, so if I say for instance, "I don't like coffee", I mean just that. It doesn't mean anything more than that. Coffee actually has good qualities, but I'm not talking about that nor about any bad qualities it has but about how it has surfaced and often surfaces the bad qualities in people, not in coffee. And I don't have a problem with being comfortable (I plan to be comfortable in my confidence, my contentment, trust, my wealth, and everyday routine); I'm saying that people who sit still don't make progress (I know I didn't say it that way).

I chuckled reading that passage you posted because it is fitting in so many ways. I think so many people need the places of honor, and this really is because of a lack of overall contentment in life (overall life contentment makes people restful; people who are happy (content) have peace of mind and don't strive for anything but are comfortable with themselves). Anyway, none of us is spectacular; thank God He is spectacular enough not to care.

I must be a vey bad person because I drink coffee all day long. Jesus forgive me!
 
Allin, I'm having second thoughts about why you truly were kicked out of your church. Maybe it wasn't just because the pastor was fleecing the congregation. Maybe there was another side to the story. Maybe it's because you're acting like an ass (there's plenty of evidence for it on CC). I'm all for pointing people to God and His Truth, but don't be an idiot and walk over people as if you were superior, while pretending to be humble. It's tiresome and irresponsible.