Moral Courage or Foolishness? Ukraine.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#21
The real battle is spiritual. God's people need to pray as never before. During WW2, many Christians prayed. Hitler made decisions that seemed crazy. Invading Russia was one, not building more submarines another. Christians at the time credited God with confusing His enemies. I agree 100%.
If the Bible says there is an end then accelerating the end is a valid path too. No one seems to ever consider that letting the world go, putting it in the hands of destiny, is always a valid option.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#22
Forget about WWIII. NATO should do what is morally right. It was created to stop Russian aggression in Europe, and since Ukraine is surrounded by NATO countries it makes moral and strategic sense to stop Putin from any further incursions into Ukraine, and also drive Russia out of Crimea at the same time.

However, just like all Western leaders. NATOs leadership is as weak and feckless as Russia wants (and that is exactly why Russia made its move). NATO has said they will do nothing. Therefore after Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia will be grabbed by Putin. And if he grabs Gotland first, NATO will be helpless. Then he will go after Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary. His crazy dream is to build the "Russian Empire".

However, this thread should be moved from the Bible discussion forum, since wars and rumors of wars were already prophesied by Christ and have been happening all along.
We can end the thread here--it was just a quick question. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#23
Why not just let Russia have Ukraine, let Ukraine decide if they can integrate with Russia, and we keep relative peace and stability?
Yes, that's the question. To be subservient to a dictator or not to be. The age of imperialism should be over. But then again, Antichrist will restore the ancient Roman Empire, in my opinion. It will be European wide, in my view, East and West.
 
Jan 5, 2022
1,224
620
113
37
"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#24
Psa 120:7 I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.

The ones who will suffer the most if this situation descends into total warfare and WWIII will be ordinary people... on all sides.

I for one hope God procrastinates the inevitable as long as possible.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,430
6,707
113
#25
If the Bible says there is an end then accelerating the end is a valid path too. No one seems to ever consider that letting the world go, putting it in the hands of destiny, is always a valid option.
It is a very slippery slope thinking one can speed up God's will. He has already declared he would shorten the days of tribulation for the sake of His saints; this should be sufficient for any child of His. Ye, we will be here during that time.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,430
6,707
113
#26
The prophet Daniel and Jesus both disagree with you on that.

Just saying....
Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Herod, the Caesars, the Czars, and more were allowed, however they were not placed by God. Read da little more closely.
The leaders put in place by God where His High Priests of old and the kings, once anointed. Thank you for your thinking but to say our Father has put Hitler or any in place is like saying He tolerates the devil being in charge of the world. He is allowing all , even the devil but not appointing nor supporting

Just as He does not support the behavior of mankind when not a when not acknowledging Him, allowing mankind to do all the evil He knew they would do until the last Trump.
 

Marilyn

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2021
1,120
244
63
#27
Sounds like a total copout, a hermit's existence. To not participate in the instruments of justice in the world is to neglect some of the most basic commands of God. Are we our brother's keeper? Of course we are! Are we to submit to our government? Certainly there are different kinds of "submission" to our political authorities. Serving in the armed forces is not automatically "evil" and "unChristian."

I agree that sometimes we should not become entangled in the politics of this world. But sometimes we are called to do so, if only as a witness within the various organizations. We may not be able to promote something completely Christian. But sometimes we can propose good compromises.

Sometimes, the nation is partially Christian, and a war may serve a Christian purpose. There is such a thing, after all, as a "just war." Wars of defense are not always unchristian. I don't know why you would assume that everything a national government does is hopelessly compromised and evil?
My father, in WW2, chose to help in the medical corp of the war but not to fight and kill. As the Body of Christ we are NOT part of Israel or the nations. They have a different purpose than us - earthly. We have a heavenly one. We do not belong to any nation but are pilgrims passing through. nations will continue to fight wars till the Lord comes and judges them.

All nations are self serving and not of God`s righteous ways.

The World System.

Christ does not battle with guns and tanks as man does, but reveals His righteous rulership through a body of believers who will stand against the enemy and his deceptions.

`For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in the heavenly places.` (Eph. 6: 12)

Principalities, Powers, rulers of the darkness and spiritual wickedness, are all in array against the Body of Christ. They operate through this present darkness of man separated from God and through the system man has formed in the world to promote man`s selfish desires and ambitions.

`This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing will be there.` (James 3: 15 & 15)



This World System is dominated by the prevalence of sin with its own methods, manners, customs, fashions and laws.

This System operates apart from God and offers position, possession and power, (authority) to those who serve its interests.

Thus mankind in rebellion against God and controlled by demonic influences, are in darkness. This is a darkness of their minds which is self - seeking and foolish.

`...although they (man) knew God they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.` (Rom. 1: 21)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,430
6,707
113
#28
It is written that we are not of this world. We are strangers in a strange land. Finally we are not able to completely divorce ourselves from this world but we are to be in the world but not of it.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#30
It is a very slippery slope thinking one can speed up God's will. He has already declared he would shorten the days of tribulation for the sake of His saints; this should be sufficient for any child of His. Ye, we will be here during that time.
That's kind of my point. If there is already a timeline to get to an inevitable end then it's also a slippery slope thinking one can slow down God's will.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,430
6,707
113
#31
No child of God would even approach dreaming of tampering with our Father's will.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#32
Jesus said to His Father "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." meaning that you can ask God to change the world for you, but be prepared to accept it if His answer is "No, today you'll be tortured and die for the sins of the world"

In like manner, if there's war then there's war. Sure we can pray for anything and God can say no to anything. Do we have the courage to accept God's will?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,430
6,707
113
#33
Even I have posted this same message several times. You know I am speaking of the children brought to Him by His only begotten Son, right? If not before, now you do. This is not a debate but maybe you will string it on, I do not know.
 
Sep 15, 2019
9,991
5,546
113
#35
Putin is not in charge in the Ukraine situation. But how far should NATO go? We don't want WW3, but it may be inevitable at some point in history. Can we speed this along, or must it happen only in God's time? Should we be afraid of precipitating WW3, or being that it is in God's domain, should we just do the right thing regardless? No Fly zone? Active military participation in Ukraine. Secret military involvement?
Wasn't the opportunity to put this right straight after the election fraud of 2020? I think each country should get its own affairs and corruption in order (coronahoax tyranny, anyone?) so they may see clearly enough to deal with this situation.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
#36
I have the same sense, and yet I do fear God--sometimes He wants us to be restrained until the right path is made clear to us. So I'm personally hesitant about declaring God wants this or that. Personally, I'd love to see somebody's air force bear down on that caravan of tanks coming down towards Kiev from the north.



Yes, I think this is a critically-important point when determining the ethics of getting involved, if it comes to that. God condemns those who move boundary stones, or who don't live up to their covenant agreement. Russia is clearly cursed. It's just a matter of how God wishes to judge her.

My Grandfather had to escape Russia from his home in Ukraine, and was under threat of being shot. I don't blame him for leaving! I was told my other Grandfather left Finland because he didn't want to be conscripted into the Russian military.



Clearly, Biden tests which way the wind is blowing before acting. He hides behind the "skirts" of European policy. He leads from behind.



Sounds like we think a lot of the same thoughts. Thanks.
I’m not saying God wants this or that at all , I was just expressing my own disgust with this current administrations weakness and in action .

piton was building up forces around tbier border since last April we could have put Missile defences , bolstered tbier Air Force , supplied them with javelins and stingers over the last year so they could fight and have some defense for the bombardment

but mainly if we would have taken a harder line Vladimir Putin would not have done this . He only moves and gets brave when he knows it’s against a esker nation Like a bully

Right now he makes threats and we jimo
How ever high he says to . We I don’t think anyone sensible wants war but the east knows this and so they have built up war machines to force their will not in Ukraine but on the world.

China , Russia , Iran , North Korea , to name a few are now gathering together and they are all military force minded nations . That’s how they will make thier point through military force.

we on the other hand have no spine or Will in the west and they are exploiting that . Bullies are emboldened when they see a weak and feckless opponent . War is either coming or the world will begin to come under chinas leadership .

it seems to me like we are looking at the same conflict between communism and democracy beginning that led to the world wars . But what God Wills no that’s not been my words at all just speaking as an embarrassed and disheartened American who remembers when we have guts and cared about defending freedom and the weak against those who actually hate us more than any country On earth

Gods Will will. BRing the world to a violent end at some point and he will bring forth the new things of peace later . I was just expressing my own thoughts about your post I’ve been thinking a lot about it myself

China and Russia are rising up we on the other hand are bowing down. Not a good formula for free nations
 

Basta

New member
Feb 19, 2022
9
12
3
#37
Why not just let Russia have Ukraine, let Ukraine decide if they can integrate with Russia, and we keep relative peace and stability?
Why not let Russia have the USA? Let Americans decide (in a corrupted voting, as it was in Ukraine before) whether they want to become a part of Russian Empire or not and then you'll have over 70% votes for claiming the USA a part of Russia. The cruel regime in Russia doesn't change - it's built upon an old lie saying "The Others are after our houses! We need to fight back!" -even though it's not true. BUT IT WORKS! Russians live their lives side by side with propaganda telling them that:
-It's not a war in Ukraine - it's special operation of denazification (probably that's why they bomb kindergardens and hospitals)
-Ukraine PRAISES Russians for coming

Your attitude is despicable considering how much Ukrainians fight for their freedom from Russia.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#38
Why not let Russia have the USA? Let Americans decide (in a corrupted voting, as it was in Ukraine before) whether they want to become a part of Russian Empire or not and then you'll have over 70% votes for claiming the USA a part of Russia. The cruel regime in Russia doesn't change - it's built upon an old lie saying "The Others are after our houses! We need to fight back!" -even though it's not true. BUT IT WORKS! Russians live their lives side by side with propaganda telling them that:
-It's not a war in Ukraine - it's special operation of denazification (probably that's why they bomb kindergardens and hospitals)
-Ukraine PRAISES Russians for coming

Your attitude is despicable considering how much Ukrainians fight for their freedom from Russia.
You don't care about Ukraine. You never cared about Ukraine. Suddenly you care because CNN told you that you need to be caring.

Ukraine is a random eastern European country that Russia has strategic interest in. It'll never belong to the USA or its allies; Ukraine is not even a part of NATO. As always, the USA is busy poking their nose in the middle of conflicts they don't belong in.

However, the Biden administration is viewed as weaklings to the other powerful militaries of the world. So now is the time to act in opportunistic land-grabs. When Russia succeeds, everyone else who opposes globalists and their sockpuppets in the White House will succeed too.
 

Basta

New member
Feb 19, 2022
9
12
3
#39
You don't care about Ukraine. You never cared about Ukraine. Suddenly you care because CNN told you that you need to be caring.

Ukraine is a random eastern European country that Russia has strategic interest in. It'll never belong to the USA or its allies; Ukraine is not even a part of NATO. As always, the USA is busy poking their nose in the middle of conflicts they don't belong in.

However, the Biden administration is viewed as weaklings to the other powerful militaries of the world. So now is the time to act in opportunistic land-grabs. When Russia succeeds, everyone else who opposes globalists and their sockpuppets in the White House will succeed too.
It's easy to say I do not care not knowing I'm not American but Polish. And I do have a lot of opportunities to help these people, too. Mostly by making food packages. Mind it before you misjudge me another time.

Of course it won't belong to the USA but why should we accept slaving Ukrainians just because they're close to Russia? Edmund Burke said: 'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ' and I couldn't agree more. I'm not going to do nothing about it.

You see it as a zero-one situation where Russia's the good guy because it opposes western globalists whereas it is deeply lied-to country with a lot of poor people being told they're living they dreamlife. If there's something to hate in Russia it is its deceitful way of showing you its people their own country and the big bad West.

By the way, I believe that the USA is falling down because of declining Christianity so I'm not FOR the West's corruption, I'm AGAINST it.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#40
It's easy to say I do not care not knowing I'm not American but Polish. And I do have a lot of opportunities to help these people, too. Mostly by making food packages. Mind it before you misjudge me another time.

Of course it won't belong to the USA but why should we accept slaving Ukrainians just because they're close to Russia? Edmund Burke said: 'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ' and I couldn't agree more. I'm not going to do nothing about it.

You see it as a zero-one situation where Russia's the good guy because it opposes western globalists whereas it is deeply lied-to country with a lot of poor people being told they're living they dreamlife. If there's something to hate in Russia it is its deceitful way of showing you its people their own country and the big bad West.

By the way, I believe that the USA is falling down because of declining Christianity so I'm not FOR the West's corruption, I'm AGAINST it.
Anyone can be anyone on the Internet. Suddenly you're a new member here talking about defending Ukraine when it's a hot topic. Coincidence? I highly doubt it. Prior to this I doubt you were much of an activist.

The enemy of our enemy is potentially a friend, at least until they've served their purpose and are no longer useful. If Biden and Soros say that Russia must be stopped then the automatic instinct of all thinking people is "Oppose Biden and Soros" because if anyone is leading people to hell (literally or figuratively) I guess it's those two.

By process of elimination, it's easy to see that the only remaining options are to either support Russia or don't try to meddle in their affairs.

I say stay out of their business and that should be the easiest response for everyone since that's what everyone was doing before anyway: not caring.