More about Israel.

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Needevidence said:
Nope - Jesus was clear the Kingdom is over and the gentiles are called.

On whta basis does the wedding banquet relate to the end times?



Is Abraham circumcision covenant ‘forever’?


Gen 17:13-14 –

13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. **My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting [owlam / root olam] covenant.**

14 And the **uncircumcised** man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath **broken my covenant.**
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The covenant of circumcision was not considered "forever" in its physical form because it was a temporary, preparatory ordinance fulfilled and superseded by the New Covenant through Jesus Christ. While Genesis 17 describes it as an "everlasting covenant," biblical theology interprets this as perpetual in purpose rather than indefinite in practice, meaning it remained in force until the arrival of the Messiah.

Reasons for Its Cessation​

  • Fulfillment in Christ: The physical act served as a shadow of the good things to come, pointing toward the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus. With His death and resurrection, the ceremonial laws of Moses, including circumcision, were fulfilled and no longer required for salvation (Colossians 2:11-12).
  • Inclusion of Gentiles: The physical mark was designed to set apart Israel as a distinct nation to preserve the lineage of the Messiah. Once Jesus was born and the Gospel extended to all nations, the requirement for physical separation was removed, allowing Gentiles to join the covenant through faith rather than physical rites.
  • Spiritual vs. Physical: The New Testament emphasizes the "circumcision of the heart" over physical flesh. Christians are considered spiritually circumcised through the removal of the "body of the flesh" in Christ, rendering the physical procedure obsolete for those under the New Covenant. A remnant of Israel will be brought into the New Covenant.
  • Definition of "Everlasting": The Hebrew term for "everlasting" can mean open-ended or valid for a specific age rather than literally without end. Just as the animal sacrificial system was called eternal but ended with Christ’s sacrifice, circumcision remained binding until its purpose was accomplished.

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Revelation1v8 said:
The covenant of circumcision was not considered "forever" in its physical form because it was a temporary, preparatory ordinance fulfilled and superseded by the New Covenant through Jesus Christ. While Genesis 17 describes it as an "everlasting covenant," biblical theology interprets this as perpetual in purpose rather than indefinite in practice, meaning it remained in force until the arrival of the Messiah.

Reasons for Its Cessation​

  • Fulfillment in Christ: The physical act served as a shadow of the good things to come, pointing toward the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus. With His death and resurrection, the ceremonial laws of Moses, including circumcision, were fulfilled and no longer required for salvation (Colossians 2:11-12).
  • Inclusion of Gentiles: The physical mark was designed to set apart Israel as a distinct nation to preserve the lineage of the Messiah. Once Jesus was born and the Gospel extended to all nations, the requirement for physical separation was removed, allowing Gentiles to join the covenant through faith rather than physical rites.
  • Spiritual vs. Physical: The New Testament emphasizes the "circumcision of the heart" over physical flesh. Christians are considered spiritually circumcised through the removal of the "body of the flesh" in Christ, rendering the physical procedure obsolete for those under the New Covenant. A remnant of Israel will be brought into the New Covenant.
  • Definition of "Everlasting": The Hebrew term for "everlasting" can mean open-ended or valid for a specific age rather than literally without end. Just as the animal sacrificial system was called eternal but ended with Christ’s sacrifice, circumcision remained binding until its purpose was accomplished.

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So now its all NT / Jesus - but when convenient OT still valid. Did Jesus ever say the old covenants or the Israelites still chosen?

Did Jesus say circumcise is no longer required?

What about the wedding banquet relating to the end times, based on what?

Is it just the lineage of Judah or all Israelites saved?
 
Needevidence said:
So now its all NT / Jesus - but when convenient OT still valid. Did Jesus ever say the old covenants or the Israelites still chosen?

Did Jesus say circumcise is no longer required?

What about the wedding banquet relating to the end times, based on what?

Is it just the lineage of Judah or all Israelites saved?
Click to expand...

Remember that verse in Ecclesiastes 3:1?

Here's the order in which it all plays out in the Bible:

Where the Phrase Lives in the Bible​

  • Ecclesiastes 3:1 (NASB): "There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every event under heaven." — This is the primary locus. The Hebrew word is זְמָן (zeman), meaning "appointed time."
  • Ecclesiastes 3:11 reinforces it: "He has made everything beautiful in its time."
  • Acts 1:7 (Jesus speaking): "It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has set by his own authority."
  • Galatians 4:4: "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth his Son…"
  • Daniel 2:21: "He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings."

Phase 1 — The Appointed Time for the Jews​

  • Genesis 12:1–3 — God's covenant with Abraham: a land, a seed, and a blessing to all nations through him.
  • Exodus 12:2 — The first month appointed; the Passover as the founding moed (appointed time).
  • Leviticus 23:1–44 — The seven moedim (appointed feasts) given to Israel: Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles.
  • 2 Samuel 7:12–16 — The Davidic covenant: an eternal throne and kingdom.
  • Isaiah 2:2–4 — "In the last days the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established… and the law shall go forth from Zion."
  • Jeremiah 31:31–34 — A new covenant written on the hearts of Israel and Judah.
  • Daniel 9:24–27 — "Seventy weeks" (490 years) decided upon your people and your holy city — a time specifically cut off for the Jews.

Phase 2 — The Appointed Time for the Gentiles​

  • Daniel 2:31–45 — Nebuchadnezzar's image: four successive Gentile kingdoms (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome) that will stand until the Son of Man shatters them.
  • Daniel 7:1–14 — Four beasts representing Gentile empires; dominion passes to the "Son of Man."
  • Daniel 8:9–14, 23–25 — The "little horn" and the "time, times, and half a time" of Gentile oppression.
  • Ezekiel 30:3 — "A time of doom for the nations" — the kairos of the Gentiles in connection with the Day of the LORD.
  • Luke 21:24 (Jesus): "Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." — The explicit statement that a distinct Gentile era follows Israel's scattering.
  • Romans 11:25 (Paul): "A partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." — The spiritual dimension: the Gospel goes to the Gentiles while Israel is in a "partial blindness."
  • Revelation 11:2 — "The outer court… has been given to the Gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months." — A final, intensified Gentile trampling before the end.

Phase 3 — The Appointed Time for the Jews Again​

  • Romans 11:26–27: "And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: 'The Deliverer will come from Zion, and will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.'" — The explicit promise that the Jewish phase resumes.
  • Isaiah 66:7–8: "Before she goes into labor, she gives birth… Can one bear in a single day? So I will cause all nations to be born at once." — Israel's "birth in a day" (widely linked to 1948).
  • Ezekiel 36:24–28 — God will gather Israel from the nations, give them a new heart, and put His Spirit within them.
  • Ezekiel 37:21–22 — The two sticks: Judah and Ephraim joined into one nation, one king.
  • Ezekiel 38–39 — The battle of Gog and Magog: Israel in the land, under siege, then supernaturally delivered.
  • Hosea 3:5: "Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God… in the last days."
  • Zechariah 12:10: "They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and mourn… as the mourning for the only son." — National repentance at the Second Coming.
  • Zechariah 14:4–11 — The LORD's feet stand on the Mount of Olives; Jerusalem is inhabited and safe.
  • Joel 3:1–2: "In those days, when I bring back the captives of Judah, I will gather all nations… to the Valley of Jehoshaphat."
The Combination — Jew and Gentile United
  • Ephesians 2:14–16 — Christ "has broken down the dividing wall… that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, thus making peace."
  • Romans 11:17–24 — The olive tree: Gentile branches grafted into the root of Israel.
  • Revelation 7:9 — "A great multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne."
  • Revelation 21:24 — "The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it." — The eternal state with no Jew/Gentile division.
Summary of the Three-Phase Sequence
  • Jews (OT covenant → Messiah's first coming) → Gentiles (church age / times of the Gentiles) → Jews again (national restoration, Ezekiel 38, Zechariah 12) → Combined (one body, one kingdom, eternal state).

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Needevidence said:
Is it just the lineage of Judah or all Israelites saved?
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The seed of Abraham through the lines of Isaac & Jacob:

That's why God/Jesus called Himself the God of them:

Exodus 3:6 - Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Matthew 22:32 - I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:26 - And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Luke 20:37 - Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

Acts 7:32 - Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

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