Music in Church?

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Jabberjaw said:
Nowhere was musical instruments authorized by God, it was brought into worship by David, he was not struck dead like Nadab and Abihu, but either way, whether God authorized David to use musical instruments or not, it is not show in the pattern of the NT church, nowhere has it been found used in worship from the day of Pentecost until the catholic church brought it in over a thousand years later.
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Okay, David, the chief Psalmist, "a man after God's own heart", was according to you, making "unauthorized" praise music to God that was, it would follow, displeasing to God. I mean no offense to you personally, you are just led not to listen to anything instrumental and I can respect that, but do you really expect everybody to just accept something this illogical (plus the assumption about the worship habits of early church that you actually have no proof of but still presenting it as fact)?
 
Jabberjaw said:
Nowhere was musical instruments authorized by God, it was brought into worship by David, he was not struck dead like Nadab and Abihu, but either way, whether God authorized David to use musical instruments or not, it is not show in the pattern of the NT church, nowhere has it been found used in worship from the day of Pentecost until the catholic church brought it in over a thousand years later.
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That is not strictly true. Yes, the first account of their use seems to have been from David but it is clear from the Psalms that God commanded their usage in OT worship.
 
Jabberjaw said:
Just one big problem, where was this authorized in the NT? (that's the part of the bible since Christ arose)
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Are we authorized to have baptismal tanks in church congregations? Are we authorized to seek medical attention of doctors when someone falls or has a heart attack while in the assembly? Are we authorized to use vocal amplification during a sermon? Are we authorized to have a dedicated church building that is not a personal residence?
You do not seem to understand the authority we are given in Christ.
 
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oldhermit said:
This is a rather silly argument and I think you know that. The silent hermeneutic is a very prominent fixture in scripture. When God instructed Israel regarding the offering of sacrifices upon the altar he gave very strict instructions as to how these things were to be done. There was no tolerance for departure from what was specifically commanded. For example, when God told Moses that the officiating Priest was to use fire from the altar of Burnt Offering for their fire pans of incense this necessarilly excluded all other sources of fire. When Nadab and Abihu violated this silent hermeneutic it cost them their lives.



Of course I am not opposed to music as a form of worship. I am opposed to INSTRUMENTAL music as a form of worship. How God instructed Israel to worship under the Law has absolutely nothing to do with how we are commanded to worship in the Church.
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they need an amen button instead of a like button
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SolidGround said:
Are we authorized to have baptismal tanks in church congregations? Are we authorized to seek medical attention of doctors when someone falls or has a heart attack while in the assembly? Are we authorized to use vocal amplification during a sermon? Are we authorized to have a dedicated church building that is not a personal residence?
You do not seem to understand the authority we are given in Christ.
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I went over this (Post #143) its called expedience.
 
"You are not authorized to..."
"All things are permissible, but not all are beneficial".
Which one is Scripture?
We are given authority by the Word, in the Word, and through the Word.

How can you twist a statement of Paul that says "sing" and take it to mean "don't play music". Two seperate things. To sing does not exclude playing instruments. It also does not include playing instruments in the command, but in no way prohibits it.

Justifying a tradition or taking a stance of abstinence on an issue is all well and good,
but to talk about it as if the Church has not been granted the authority in Scripture, and is not authorized to... physically minded, lacking discernment.
 
Jabberjaw said:
Just one big problem, where was this authorized in the NT? (that's the part of the bible since Christ arose)
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Matthew 25:14-30 (parable of talents), Colossians 3:23-24 (as i quoted earlier, whatever you do, do as though to the Lord), Colossians 3:16, Ephesians 5:19 (teaching, encouraging and speaking to one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs) etc.

they are talented singers, songwriters and musicians, and using these gifts of God for the service and glory of God, and i'm thankful for them and many others like them, because they put in my heart a melody that i sing in remembrance of and thanksgiving to God.
 
To those reading this, do not let your consciences be burdened with such.
If it already is burdened, then submit to it,
but if it is not, don't add to your your cross something that even Jesus did not carry. And He paid it all.
 
Jabberjaw said:
I went over this (Post #143) its called expedience.
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While some things are universally non-expedient, you will notice that the Bible warns us against these things always, it is always possible to find an applicable Scripture against evil. Yes, even for modern things. But there is NO verse to forbid instrumental music in service of praise of God.
If something which is not opposed or forbidden in the Bible is not expedient to you, and it seems to be expedient to other people, you cannot judge them as you are not God and dont know their heart. This is why we discern things most safely by the fruit they produce. Bad tree cant produce a good fruit - cant go wrong with that one.
Please let us focus on fighting real universal evils, like evil thoughts proceeding from the heart... fighting against people using instruments to praise God is such a waste of energy of the Body, it makes me sad. It's like being shot through your chest, but being really concerned about this mole on your face, that isnt any kind of cancer but only a mole.
 
SolidGround said:
I believe we can agree in Christ,
but not necessarily on this small issue.
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I see... honestly I am disappointed. I figured that we would all have the sense and maturity to realize what a silly and pointless debate this is. I am perfectly fine with a heated debate but there must come a time when we realize there no use in arguing anymore right? I may stay in this thread but but I see no point in arguing any more
 
SolidGround said:
Instruments can also be an expedient. Point not taken.
The command to sing does not exclude musical accompaniment.
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And as He has also commanded music instruments to follow His praise, plus harps being mentioned in Heaven... I thought God was eternal and did not change? :confused: Did harps get kicked out of Heaven from NT onward?
 
oldhermit said:
That is not strictly true. Yes, the first account of their use seems to have been from David but it is clear from the Psalms that God commanded their usage in OT worship.
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It also had a temple, altars, burning of incense, circumcision, dietary laws, and yearly festivals. What suddenly changed all of these things? Christ's death on the cross. "But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter" (Romans 7:6)
 
SoulWeaver said:
And as He has also commanded music to follow His praise, plus harps being mentioned in Heaven... I thought God was eternal and did not change? :confused: Did harps get kicked out of Heaven from NT onward?
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Excellent point, it's expedience is PROVEN by the Psalms!
 
SolidGround said:
If you take the time to look up "instruments in the Church", you will find evidence of use of them during the 3rd century, and debates about them throughout the next 3 centuries, with resolutions made under councils before the fall of the Roman Empire banning them as "a symbol of lasciviousness and debauchery". Not exactly how the Word describes instruments... makes one wonder if the councils were basing this on the Word at all, as they did not use Scripture in the discussions, but Platonic reasoning. We follow Christ, not Plato. Why did they reference Plato, but not the Word? Their decision was law in the church until the 800s, and entirely disregarded by the western church by 1000.
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Well, I am not aware of the use of instruments in the Church that early but, even assuming this is correct, why did it take three centuries for the instrument to be accepted if the apostolic charge was to use them in the worship? The word acappella was a mid-evil Latin word that, as I am sure you are aware, means "as in the chapel " or "as in the Church." This word was used to identify music that was to be sung without instrumentation "just as in the Church." The example of the attitude of the early Church toward the rejection of instrumental music in the worship stood as the pattern for the use of this word.
 
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