muslim belief???

[AnandaHya]

example of the influence of Christianity BEFORE the birth of Muhammad... the decrees of the Roman Emperor Constantiine

Emperor Constantine (c.274 - 337)

His first edict concerning the Christians (Rome 312) is lost. By the second (Milan, 313) he granted them, not only free religious worship and the recognition of the State, but also reparation of previously incurred losses. Banished men who worked on the galleys or in the mines were recalled, confiscated estates were restored, etc. A series of edicts of 315, 316, 319, 321, and 323, completed. the revolution. Christians were admitted to the offices of the State, both military and civil; the Christian clergy was exempted from all municipal burdens, as were the Pagan priests; the emancipation of Christian slaves was facilitated; Jews were forbidden to keep Christian slaves, etc. An [547] edict of 321 ordered Sunday to be celebrated by cessation of all work in public. When Constantine became master of the whole empire, all these edicts were extended to the whole realm, and the Roman world more and more assumed the aspect of a Christian state.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I know this is a Christian forum, and may seem odd that someone of the Muslim belief is even on here. As Christians we do not believe in their faith, but that is no reason for him to be treated as I have seen some treat him. He has remained civil and as polite as someone could.

Also, if I was not a Christian and thinking about becoming one after seeing some of the comments on this thread I would run away quick.


Do some of you on here not know about how to treat others with respect and a loving heart? Or is it because he is not a Christian he deserves to be treated like a dog?

I have not studied a whole lot on their faith, but I know enough to know the basics of what their faith is. Some of you know nothing of their faith and it is obvious. So, if you really do not have knowledge of something then why act like you do? Just makes you look ignorant.

 

[In_Atom]

If I were to say: "I was the first Christian at this Church", then it would be absolutely reasonable to conclude that I was the very first Christian to arrive at that Church. If I were to simply say "I came first", that is open for interpretation if the context isn't provided.

Both statements are equivalent. `` I was the first Christian at this Church`` leaves out the possibility that a Muslim or an Atheist (or any Non-Christian for that matter) arrived at the location of your appointment first (ie. Before the ‘first’ Christian arrived), while ``I came first`` infers that you were the first person on the spot (it’s a little much broader as it includes the non-Christians too).

Let’s agree that Shwagga was ‘the first Christian at that Church’ would it be reasonable for anyone to assume that you were the first (to have been at that Church) of all man and of all time ? Yes, No ? let’s say the appointment was fixed for the 4 Mars 2012, No one would have a problem to understand by that, that you were the first of those with whom you’ve fixed the appointment and of all those who followed after you, but it wouldn’t make any sense to argue that you were the first even amongst those who preceded you.

Thankfully we don't have to deal with hypothetical scenarions. We can go directly to the Qur'an and see what Moses allegedly said. So, was Moses the first of the believers or not?

You’re just attacking a straw man, as I previously explained; Adam was the first Muslim, Abraham was the first Muslim, Moses was the first Muslim etc. Each of these prophets and messengers were the first Muslims of their respective community. If you want to stay confined in your erroneous and mistaken interpretation (assuming you have no problem with it being nonsensical), fine, but from the moment you begin arguing that this (blatantly illogical interpretation of yours) is what Muslims actually believe … it just exposes you as a ‘deceiver’, which I’m sure you’re not ? Well, not so sure, but anyway … if you dislike it that much to see others being deceptive and misrepresenting your ‘beliefs’ to a non-Christian audience, why do the same? retaliation?

a Last remark, I was examining some scriptures and came across a kind of ‘similar’ situation. I ain’t aiming to ‘debate’ the following few verses, nor to force my own interpretation over yours. I’ll simply request you to offer me a suitable interpretation regarding the following:

Exodus 4: 22 "…Israel is my son, even my firstborn".

Jeremiah 31:9 "…For I (God) am a Father to Israel, and E’-phra-im is my firstborn."

Psalms 89:27 "Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth"

Colossians 1 :15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation"


Who is the FIRSTborn? Is Israel the firstborn ? Is Ephraim the firstborn ? is David the firstborn ? is Jesus the firstborn ? from afar it looks like a contradiction ... but as I'm sure there's a Christian response to that, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[In_Atom]

@Elizabeth, Thank you.

Actually, I've been around CC for a long time ... so, I saw pretty much everything. In general, most of the people (here) are very polite too.

 

[Shwagga]

Both statements are equivalent. `` I was the first Christian at this Church`` leaves out the possibility that a Muslim or an Atheist (or any Non-Christian for that matter) arrived at the location of your appointment first (ie. Before the ‘first’ Christian arrived), while ``I came first`` infers that you were the first person on the spot (it’s a little much broader as it includes the non-Christians too).

Let’s agree that Shwagga was ‘the first Christian at that Church’ would it be reasonable for anyone to assume that you were the first (to have been at that Church) of all man and of all time ? Yes, No ? let’s say the appointment was fixed for the 4 Mars 2012, No one would have a problem to understand by that, that you were the first of those with whom you’ve fixed the appointment and of all those who followed after you, but it wouldn’t make any sense to argue that you were the first even amongst those who preceded you.




You’re just attacking a straw man, as I previously explained; Adam was the first Muslim, Abraham was the first Muslim, Moses was the first Muslim etc. Each of these prophets and messengers were the first Muslims of their respective community. If you want to stay confined in your erroneous and mistaken interpretation (assuming you have no problem with it being nonsensical), fine, but from the moment you begin arguing that this (blatantly illogical interpretation of yours) is what Muslims actually believe … it just exposes you as a ‘deceiver’, which I’m sure you’re not ? Well, not so sure, but anyway … if you dislike it that much to see others being deceptive and misrepresenting your ‘beliefs’ to a non-Christian audience, why do the same? retaliation?

a Last remark, I was examining some scriptures and came across a kind of ‘similar’ situation. I ain’t aiming to ‘debate’ the following few verses, nor to force my own interpretation over yours. I’ll simply request you to offer me a suitable interpretation regarding the following:

Exodus 4: 22 "…Israel is my son, even my firstborn".

Jeremiah 31:9 "…For I (God) am a Father to Israel, and E’-phra-im is my firstborn."

Psalms 89:27 "Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth"

Colossians 1 :15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation"


Who is the FIRSTborn? Is Israel the firstborn ? Is Ephraim the firstborn ? is David the firstborn ? is Jesus the firstborn ? from afar it looks like a contradiction ... but as I'm sure there's a Christian response to that, I'm looking forward to it.

In_Atom,

For one the Qur'an never says Adam was the first believer of his time or that Moses was the first believer of his time or anyone else who the Qur'an claims to be the first believer or the first Muslim. So you're going too far with your analogy by adding dates and times. You go on to say "Each of these prophets and messengers were the first Muslims of their respective community", okay that's your claim but prove it. Show me where the Qur'an says that. You are going in circles and repeating yourself, but you cannot give any evidence for what you're saying.

To add to the contradiction, your prophet said "Every child is born with a true faith of Islam and his parents convert him to Judaism or Christianity or Magianism, as an animal delivers a perfect baby animal. Do you find it mutilated?"....

Even though you have yet to prove anything you've said in regards to "the first believer of their time" and etc, I'll go with that interpretation but still hoping you can provide some evidence for it in the future. So, for the sake of argument I'll accept your interpretation, for now, only to show you that it only increases the problem. This hadith teaches that everyone was born a Muslim with the true faith of Islam and then their parents convert them to other religions. How then would Moses be the first believer of his time or Muhammad or anyone else who the Qur'an claims to be the first Muslim/believer? All of their parents were Muslims and had true faith at least for some period of time, right? So, even if we go with your interpretation which is not supported by the Qur'an, your own prophet contradicts you here.

Furthermore I still haven't gotten a straight forward answer to my question: Was Moses the first among the believers? Yes or no.

You then go on to complain about me being deceptive and mistaken, but the fact is I am the one actually allowing the Qur'an to speak for itself. You are the one being deceptive by adding words to it, to make sense out of a book full of contradictions. This is probably one of the smallest contradictions in the Qur'an there are hundreds if not thousands more.

Then you go on to quote verses from the Bible. First of all you've already proven you cannot answer things about your Qur'an. This is the old "I can't answer the question, but hey maybe you won't be able to answer this one!"

If you just looked up "what does firstborn mean in the Bible" instead of going to Answering-Christianity.com and trying to find Bible contradictions you would've found your answer.

So before we move on to the Bible, lets finish our topic first. No need to jump around everywhere.