My KJV Debate with Jeffrey Dollar

[John146]

Of course it is. If nobody could believe, nobody would. She deliberately leaves out that it is the natural man that is incapable.

The natural man left to his own. He needs the word of God.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I would not necessarily call this particular example "heretical," but it has caused millions of people throughout the years, including our very own day and age, to believe in something that is totally untrue, and that is never going to happen.

Jhn 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

"Mansions" is a terrible translation. The Greek word simply means "room," "dwelling," or "abode," and this is how most other Bible versions properly translate it. In fact, this Greek word only appears twice in the underlying text of the New Testament, and the other time is in this same chapter of John where it is properly translated as "abode" in the KJV.

Jhn 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Nowhere does the Bible teach that Jesus is building "mansions" for believers in heaven, which is what people have ridiculously turned "my Father's house" into due to this terrible translation. Everywhere in scripture, including in this same gospel of John, the "Father's house" is a temple in Jerusalem.

Jhn 2:13
And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Jhn 2:14
And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
Jhn 2:15
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Jhn 2:16
And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Jhn 2:17
And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

In John chapter 14, Jesus told the tiny and specific group of disciples who he was actually talking to that when he returns there will be rooms for them in his Father's house or in the temple in Jerusalem in which he will be reigning at that time. Now, due to a terrible translation, people are believing in something totally different which is never going to occur. Not only this, but they are singing about it in many churches while reciting the partly fictitious words of "Victory in Jesus." Do you believe that God inspired this nonsense? I do not because God is neither a liar nor the author of confusion.
You are erroneous in this belief because my own in-depth research covered about 20 years of my life.
Why would I be bent on wanting to see errors in the KJV when I have been reading it for more than 30 years? In reality, it is KJV Onlyists who have repeatedly shown a stubborn unwillingness to admit that the KJV is translated very poorly in certain instances.

Modern Bibles water-down the truth on God properly rewarding us. Hebrews 11:6 says, “...he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

Contemporary Translations teach Jesus prepares a room or a dwelling place for us instead of a mansion (See: John 14:2).Note: Some modern Bible advocates even prefer this erroneous Modern reading. In Matthew 6:4, contemporary Bibles remove the truth that God will reward you openly if you give charity or alms to those in secret (See: Matthew 6:4). In Revelation 1:6 and Revelation 5:10 (KJV), it states that God makes us kings and priests. This truth is also echoed in Matthew 25:23, where Jesus declares a future promise: 'I will make you ruler over many things.' However, modern Bibles omit the explicit declaration found in these two verses in Revelation, which state that Jesus presently establishes us as kings for God the Father today.

So I see a bad pattern here.
It’s like taking those red strings on cork board and making a connection.
We see this constantly with the Modern Bibles. They water down the deity of Jesus Christ, the blood atonement, and the substitutionary atonement. So, again, there is this bad pattern in Modern Bibles you have to ignore. Unless you can show me this same level of bad changes in the KJV, you really don’t have a leg to stand on here, my friend.

In any event, if you disagree, we can agree to disagree in love.

May God bless you this fine day.


….

 

[Blain]

Your question summarizes the entire issue. With not final authority to go to, there is confusion. Surely, this is not God's desire.

the truth should be easy for new believers to find and learn if we overcomplicate things like which translation is the true one then it just causes confusion and complicates his word in general.
This is why I am concerned about new believers or young Christians reading these debates and it clearly causes strife as seen by that Jerremiah person that got banned
and also people being called occultists
even though there are many cults like that still we see that discussions like this cause a lot of dividing and confusion

 

[Blain]

The natural man left to his own. He needs the word of God.

but to receive the word of God they have to be drawn to him first the natural man cannot receive unless first drawn to him

 

[Magenta]

The natural man left to his own. He needs the word of God.

He needs a new heart. Then the Word of God can take root and grow good fruit.
They have the inherently hostile-to-God mind, which is incapable of submitting to God's law
or of receiving or understanding the spiritual things of God, deciding to believe that which is
foolishness to them while they are yet a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, captive to the will of
the devil and suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. And yes, as Blain just said, we are drawn
with loving kindness. But that person has many times claimed God is unfair if He reveals Himself
to one person not exactly the same as to another, and yet we have a Bible full of stories of God
revealing Himself in different ways to different people. She tries to cast shame on personal relational
ties with God by calling them gnosis, even though it is a promise God has made and He fulfills to
those who seek Him.

 

[Dino246]

The preaching of the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Don't underestimate the power of the word of God.

And don’t underestimate the God Who gave the word in the first place. That’s exactly what you are doing by implying He is unable to use an “imperfect” translation. Of course, your hypocrisy is evident given the many imperfections in the KJV.

 

[John146]

the truth should be easy for new believers to find and learn if we overcomplicate things like which translation is the true one then it just causes confusion and complicates his word in general.
This is why I am concerned about new believers or young Christians reading these debates and it clearly causes strife as seen by that Jerremiah person that got banned
and also people being called occultists
even though there are many cults like that still we see that discussions like this cause a lot of dividing and confusion

Multiple versions creates confusion. Which can be trusted? A faithful witness will not lie.

 

[John146]

but to receive the word of God they have to be drawn to him first the natural man cannot receive unless first drawn to him

Drawn by the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the gospel. Some believe, some do not believe. Man has a choice.

 

[Dino246]

Your question summarizes the entire issue. With no final authority to go to, there is confusion. Surely, this is not God's desire.

Your argument is based on speculation.

There is an adage, “The man with one watch always knows the time; the man with two watches never does.” While that might sound like wisdom, it involves the massive and unsupportable assumption that the one watch is correct.

 

[John146]

He needs a new heart. Then the Word of God can take root and grow good fruit.
They have the inherently hostile-to-God mind, which is incapable of submitting to God's law
or of receiving or understanding the spiritual things of God, deciding to believe that which is
foolishness to them while they are yet a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, captive to the will of
the devil and suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. And yes, as Blain just said, we are drawn
with loving kindness. But that person has many times claimed God is unfair if He reveals Himself
to one person not exactly the same as to another, and yet we have a Bible full of stories of God
revealing Himself in different ways to different people. She tries to cast shame on personal relational
ties with God by calling them gnosis, even though it is a promise God has made and He fulfills to
those who seek Him.

Sounds good, but it's not biblical.

 

[Magenta]

Sounds good, but it's not biblical.

Not sure what you are saying is not Biblical. Any who, I am off to work.

 

[Dino246]

Multiple versions creates confusion. Which can be trusted? A faithful witness will not lie.

If “a faithful witness will not lie”, then why does the KJV contradict itself between 2 Kings 8:25 and 2 Kings 9:29 regarding the year in which Ahaziah ascended the throne? Which is it? We need to know! The multiple versions create confusion! How can we walk out our Christian faith without all the words of God?

Next time, try using arguments that are not extremely easy to refute.

 

[John146]

And don’t underestimate the God Who gave the word in the first place. That’s exactly what you are doing by implying He is unable to use an “imperfect” translation. Of course, your hypocrisy is evident given the many imperfections in the KJV.

Thanks for you opinion once again.

 

[John146]

Your argument is based on speculation.

There is an adage, “The man with one watch always knows the time; the man with two watches never does.” While that might sound like wisdom, it involves the massive and unsupportable assumption that the one watch is correct.

both watches may be wrong and the man has no clue what time it is...

 

[Blain]

Multiple versions creates confusion. Which can be trusted? A faithful witness will not lie.

we cannot lean on our own understanding that is why we have the holy spirit who will lead us to all truth so no matter the version we have the holy spirit to speak the truth to us.

 

[John146]

If “a faithful witness will not lie”, then why does the KJV contradict itself between 2 Kings 8:25 and 2 Kings 9:29 regarding the year in which Ahaziah ascended the throne? Which is it? We need to know! The multiple versions create confusion! How can we walk out our Christian faith without all the words of God?

Next time, try using arguments that are not extremely easy to refute.

Lol, I've reconciled this for you several times. It's not my fault you cannot see it.

 

[John146]

we cannot lean on our own understanding that is why we have the holy spirit who will lead us to all truth so no matter the version we have the holy spirit to speak the truth to us.

So, when a version states something that's not true, the Holy Spirit will correct it in your mind?

 

[Blain]

So, when a version states something that's not true, the Holy Spirit will correct it in your mind?

yes God is not limited by mans translation

 

[Jimbone]

Sounds good, but it's not biblical.

Not sure what you are saying is not Biblical. Any who, I am off to work.

Yeah says the guy that lifts up the KJV to the level of false idol. How are you speaking about "not biblical", where in the Bible is the KJV mentioned? Well if king james isn't mentioned then surely the coming "perfect version" of His word is there. No? So being biblical is the standard for everything but your KJV Onlyism?

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I would not necessarily call this particular example "heretical," but it has caused millions of people throughout the years, including our very own day and age, to believe in something that is totally untrue, and that is never going to happen.

Jhn 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

"Mansions" is a terrible translation. The Greek word simply means "room," "dwelling," or "abode," and this is how most other Bible versions properly translate it. In fact, this Greek word only appears twice in the underlying text of the New Testament, and the other time is in this same chapter of John where it is properly translated as "abode" in the KJV.

Jhn 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Nowhere does the Bible teach that Jesus is building "mansions" for believers in heaven, which is what people have ridiculously turned "my Father's house" into due to this terrible translation. Everywhere in scripture, including in this same gospel of John, the "Father's house" is a temple in Jerusalem.

Jhn 2:13
And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Jhn 2:14
And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
Jhn 2:15
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Jhn 2:16
And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
Jhn 2:17
And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

In John chapter 14, Jesus told the tiny and specific group of disciples who he was actually talking to that when he returns there will be rooms for them in his Father's house or in the temple in Jerusalem in which he will be reigning at that time. Now, due to a terrible translation, people are believing in something totally different which is never going to occur. Not only this, but they are singing about it in many churches while reciting the partly fictitious words of "Victory in Jesus." Do you believe that God inspired this nonsense? I do not because God is neither a liar nor the author of confusion.
You are erroneous in this belief because my own in-depth research covered about 20 years of my life.
Why would I be bent on wanting to see errors in the KJV when I have been reading it for more than 30 years? In reality, it is KJV Onlyists who have repeatedly shown a stubborn unwillingness to admit that the KJV is translated very poorly in certain instances.

You also suggested that Jesus is going to provide for them a temple here on Earth for them to live in.

However, Paul, who is called the last apostle, tells us in 2 Corinthians 5:1 about how we will have a house in the heavens or a building of God.

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."​

Paul contrasts our earthly dwelling with a house in the heavens, consistent with the word “mansions” in John 14:2 in the KJV. While there will be a Millennial reign of Christ, John 14:2 is not a reference to a mere room in some temple on Earth. Jesus says He goes to prepare a place for us (see again: John 14:2). This does not make sense if it will be some later earthly dwelling that needs to be built later. How can Jesus go to prepare a place for us if it will be a later development here on Earth?



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