New Covenant and Old Covenant

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except you are ignoring the fact that the second time change is used it is a differnt greek word, if you actually look at what I posted you will see concerning the prieshood chage it is a removal of one replace by another,

word g3331 and word g3346 different words.
Oh dear...
I am not ignoring anything....

What you are calling two different words is true in the sense that the spellings are different, but that is about it!
Yes, one word is a verb and the other is a participle, but if you know your Greek grammar (and English grammar for that matter) then you will know that a participle is based on a verb.
And the verb root for both these words is identical and therefore their root meaning is identical!

I have no idea what is getting you in froth - you cannot escape the fact that when Jesus Christ became the High Priest of the New covenant the Torah, and the Sinaitic covenant to which it belongs, were abrogated, replaced, just as Hebrews 7:11-12 tells us...

The Torah cannot be binding on New covenant believers and Hebrews 7:11-12 is just one text of a few that tell us why!
 
OK SURE.

that is why they have different Strong's entries and the spelling is different...

metathesis

metathemai

Hebrews 7:11-12, “Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed (#G3331), there is made of necessity a change (#G3346)also of the law.”

the truth is the truth. be well.
 
OK SURE.

that is why they have different Strong's entries and the spelling is different...

metathesis

metatithemes
I have corrected your transliteration (bolded).
What you had written was the VERB on which that PARTICIPLE is based...

I made a small error when I looked at the participle.
It is true that the root verb of the participle is this: "μετατίθημι".

However, its meaning does nothing to change the meaning of hebrews 7:11-12 as shown in English translations....

So, unfortunately for your theology, the meaning remains the same: A different High Priest requires a change to the Law.
Therefore the Torah is NOT part of the New covenant!
No amount of wiggling and wriggling changes this...
 
I think it is important to read Jer. 31, as the Word which became Flesh tells us what the New agreement with His people is.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I (Word which became Flesh) will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice He said He would write HIS Laws on our hearts of those of the house of Israel. No mention of different laws, or new laws.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

One Agreement that was make through Moses was what Hebrews calls the "Levitical Priesthood". This was a set of instructions which were given specifically to the Levites. It had to do with two things.

#1. the administration of God's Laws.

#2. the atonement of sins.

In Jeremiah the Word is saying that there would come a day when we would no longer rely on "Levites" to administer God's Instructions, Jesus would intervene and write them on our hearts.

Also, we would no longer rely on the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "Works of the Law" for remission or atonement of sins, Jesus would intervene directly and forgive our sins Himself with His own Blood.

This is because the Levite Priests had corrupted God's Words and were creating their own religion. Hebrews explains it perfectly.

Heb. 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

There was a problem with the Priesthood, what was it?


Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Jesus spoke of this problem.

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not from God.)

So the Word which became Flesh changed this Priesthood because they corrupted it, and created another agreement, as He promised in Jeremiah.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them,(Levite Priests) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

But the Priesthood given to Moses was specifically for the Levite. Jesus was from Judah, so there also had to be a change of the Law as it is written.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

I think it is important to read what the Word which became Flesh says about what the New Covenant is and be careful not to add to it or take away from it.

Heb. 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, (Appointed because of a certain bloodline) but after the power of an endless life. (Raised from the dead because He didn't sin)

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment (Levitical Priesthood) going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Human priests with carnal minds, appointed to the Priesthood according to this Law..

19 For the law (Levitical Priesthood) made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: (They were sinners)

24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.


28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity;(The Law of the Priesthood) but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

This New Covenant, according to God's Word, is this wonderful change in the Priesthood. No more Levite Priests, scribes or Pharisees to filter God's Word. He writes them on our hearts.

No more Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" that the Jews were "bewitching" the Galatians with and harassing the Gentile converts with.

Messiah, with His blood, makes atonement for the sin's of His People once and for all.

There are many who preach the Word which became Flesh destroyed God's Laws in the New Covenant. We were warned of such preachers.

If you read the Word you will find this is a false teaching.
r
Great topic, thank you for sharing.
God established the Levite priesthood and when we study how God did this we find what that priesthood was to do. We know that Christ came to fulfill this, to take over the work of the priesthood and do it much better for Christ is God.

Melchizedek was both a high priest and a king, the only man who was both. Christ is not only our high priest but Christ is also a king as we are told in Hebrew.

The law is eternal and established by an eternal God. The law is fully explained in psalm 119 and every other scripture about the law fits how it is explained there. It can be written on stone or in our hearts--it is the same law.
 
I think it is important to read Jer. 31, as the Word which became Flesh tells us what the New agreement with His people is.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I (Word which became Flesh) will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice He said He would write HIS Laws on our hearts of those of the house of Israel. No mention of different laws, or new laws.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

One Agreement that was make through Moses was what Hebrews calls the "Levitical Priesthood". This was a set of instructions which were given specifically to the Levites. It had to do with two things.

#1. the administration of God's Laws.

#2. the atonement of sins.

In Jeremiah the Word is saying that there would come a day when we would no longer rely on "Levites" to administer God's Instructions, Jesus would intervene and write them on our hearts.

Also, we would no longer rely on the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "Works of the Law" for remission or atonement of sins, Jesus would intervene directly and forgive our sins Himself with His own Blood.

This is because the Levite Priests had corrupted God's Words and were creating their own religion. Hebrews explains it perfectly.

Heb. 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

There was a problem with the Priesthood, what was it?


Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Jesus spoke of this problem.

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not from God.)

So the Word which became Flesh changed this Priesthood because they corrupted it, and created another agreement, as He promised in Jeremiah.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them,(Levite Priests) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

But the Priesthood given to Moses was specifically for the Levite. Jesus was from Judah, so there also had to be a change of the Law as it is written.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

I think it is important to read what the Word which became Flesh says about what the New Covenant is and be careful not to add to it or take away from it.

Heb. 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, (Appointed because of a certain bloodline) but after the power of an endless life. (Raised from the dead because He didn't sin)

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment (Levitical Priesthood) going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Human priests with carnal minds, appointed to the Priesthood according to this Law..

19 For the law (Levitical Priesthood) made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: (They were sinners)

24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.


28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity;(The Law of the Priesthood) but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

This New Covenant, according to God's Word, is this wonderful change in the Priesthood. No more Levite Priests, scribes or Pharisees to filter God's Word. He writes them on our hearts.

No more Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" that the Jews were "bewitching" the Galatians with and harassing the Gentile converts with.

Messiah, with His blood, makes atonement for the sin's of His People once and for all.

There are many who preach the Word which became Flesh destroyed God's Laws in the New Covenant. We were warned of such preachers.

If you read the Word you will find this is a false teaching.

Great topic, thank you for sharing.

Studyman ! thank you for explaining this so clear for all (who are willing) to understand !
 
Sadly your view is in error because you don't seem to recognize what Jesus accomplished on the cross:

Luke 22:20 "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

Hebrews 8:7 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second."

Hebrews 8:13 "When He said "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete".
W
We are under the new covenant in Christ's blood, not the covenant of Sinai. There is no changing of God's word; there is rather simple acceptance of it.
A ne covenant adds to it does not as the church today tells us take away. Blood has always been required for a cleansing for forgiveness. That has not and never will change. We cannot be holy or righteous enough to buy our forgiveness or our salvation, God has never given man that power. When Christ died for us and the new covenant was established it made the innocent blood of animals obsolete for now it is Christ's blood given for our forgiveness, innocent animal blood is obsolete.

Scripture must be read as a whole. God is eternal and His word is eternal. To understand this we must understand how each scripture relates to all others. We must know what is obsolete, but never, ever think that any of God's word is obsolete. It would be more accurate to translate this truth by saying now there is a change.
 
A ne covenant adds to it does not as the church today tells us take away. Blood has always been required for a cleansing for forgiveness. That has not and never will change. We cannot be holy or righteous enough to buy our forgiveness or our salvation, God has never given man that power. When Christ died for us and the new covenant was established it made the innocent blood of animals obsolete for now it is Christ's blood given for our forgiveness, innocent animal blood is obsolete.

Scripture must be read as a whole. God is eternal and His word is eternal. To understand this we must understand how each scripture relates to all others. We must know what is obsolete, but never, ever think that any of God's word is obsolete. It would be more accurate to translate this truth by saying now there is a change.
Obviously the Word of God itself does not agree with you: "13 [FONT=&quot]In that He says, “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]A new[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13


This is reference to the Sinaitic covenant and the Law contained within it!
Seems the word of God does not share your scruples...

The Law and the Sinatiic covenant remains part of the Word of God but its statutes are not binding on any New covenant believer................................................
 
Have you ever read a post and get the feeling that though we use the same words, we don't actually mean the same thing at all?

I read the OP and I am convinced when we use the word "New covenant" the OP and I don't refer to the same thing at all. Can't tell w/o more discussion though.

The old covenant was a legal document with terms of contract and penalties if you didn't meet them. Like a business contract to hire workers.

The New Covenant is adoption papers...still a legal document but a totally different purpose.
 
Have you ever read a post and get the feeling that though we use the same words, we don't actually mean the same thing at all?

I read the OP and I am convinced when we use the word "New covenant" the OP and I don't refer to the same thing at all. Can't tell w/o more discussion though.

The old covenant was a legal document with terms of contract and penalties if you didn't meet them. Like a business contract to hire workers.

The New Covenant is adoption papers...still a legal document but a totally different purpose.
Really nice illustration....
I might actually adopt it (pardon the pun) if you don't claim a copyright on it!
 
Studyman ! thank you for explaining this so clear for all (who are willing) to understand !

Thanks Beta, you encouraging words are greatly appreciated. I am very thankful that He has allowed me to see these things, considering who I am. It is quite fascinating how God's Word lays His Plan out there.

May we all grow in the knowledge of Him :)
 
Obviously the Word of God itself does not agree with you: "13 In that He says, “A newcovenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13


This is reference to the Sinaitic covenant and the Law contained within it!
Seems the word of God does not share your scruples...

The Law and the Sinatiic covenant remains part of the Word of God but its statutes are not binding on any New covenant believer................................................

I think we should let the Word which became Flesh describe HIS New Covenant. Don't you?

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I (The Word which became Flesh) will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

No mention of new laws or different laws, only on how His Laws are administered. No more Levite priests to filter the Word.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


No more sacrificial, ceremonial, Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for atonement of sins. Jesus Himself, with His Blood cleanses our sin.

The Word which became Flesh only mentions duties of the Priesthood here, not the entire commandments of God.

Maybe you can show me where, in the Word of God, there is more than the priesthood and it's duties that changed.

I know if you actually use the scriptures you will find that Blik is not in disagreement with the Bible, maybe just in disagreement with your religious traditions.
 
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Jesus speaks of New covenant laws in His sermon of the mount. Those are the terms and conditions....mount Zion not mount Sinai.

There are new laws that Jesus explains and also he shows the deeper spiritual purposes for existing spiritual laws.

Example: old covenant says an eye for an eye. Jesus says turn the other cheek, forgive and love even your enemies.
 
Maybe you can show me where, in the Word of God, there is more than the priesthood and it's duties that changed.

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:20,21)

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col 2:16,17)
 
A ne covenant adds to it does not as the church today tells us take away. Blood has always been required for a cleansing for forgiveness. That has not and never will change. We cannot be holy or righteous enough to buy our forgiveness or our salvation, God has never given man that power. When Christ died for us and the new covenant was established it made the innocent blood of animals obsolete for now it is Christ's blood given for our forgiveness, innocent animal blood is obsolete.

Scripture must be read as a whole. God is eternal and His word is eternal. To understand this we must understand how each scripture relates to all others. We must know what is obsolete, but never, ever think that any of God's word is obsolete. It would be more accurate to translate this truth by saying now there is a change.

The Law is a single entity. It is not broken up into bits and pieces which do or don't continue. The entire Sinaitic covenant was made obsolete... all parts of it. While it's true that Christ Himself is the high priest, and that animal sacrifices don't continue, your view implies that the rest of the Law is still in place. It isn't, for believers in Christ.

The alternative is going through the Law and determining which parts continue. The problem of course is that you won't get two people to agree on which of the 613 commands still apply. Paul was having none of that with the Galatians, to whom he wrote, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor" (3:34-35) or the Romans, to whom he wrote, "and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying: 'You shall love your neighbour as yourself'" (13:9). In Christ, we are done with the Law.
 
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:20,21)

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col 2:16,17)

How do these scriptures wipe out or alter what the Word which became Flesh said in Jeremiah? All those things commanded in Acts are the Laws of God.

Col. 2 says not to let men judge me for following the Laws of God.

Please explain?
 
How do these scriptures wipe out or alter what the Word which became Flesh said in Jeremiah? All those things commanded in Acts are the Laws of God.

Col. 2 says not to let men judge me for following the Laws of God.

Please explain?

It's important to distinguish the Mosaic Law from other commands or instructions given in Scripture. Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy spell out the Mosaic Law. Genesis is included, but predates Moses.

One interesting bit is that circumcision predates Moses (it was commanded of Abraham) but it was included in the Law that is no longer binding on believers in Christ.

Commands and instructions given by Jesus (in the flesh), Paul and the other writers are not "Law" (Mosaic) in this sense. While we are to follow these instructions, they simply are in a different category. This is why so many Christians struggle with the question of following the Law... because they don't recognize or make the distinction.
 
Commands and instructions given by Jesus (in the flesh), Paul and the other writers are not "Law" (Mosaic) in this sense. While we are to follow these instructions, they simply are in a different category. This is why so many Christians struggle with the question of following the Law... because they don't recognize or make the distinction.

I don't understand the distinction you are making. Law is law. One law he gave through Moses; another law he gave in person.
 
I don't understand the distinction you are making. Law is law. One law he gave through Moses; another law he gave in person.

When Paul wrote to the Galatians, he was addressing a specific problem: the Galatians had come to believe that they were to believe in Christ AND follow the Old Testament Law. He clearly explained that faith in Christ was separate from OT Law and freed us from its requirements. We are made righteous in God's sight not by following the OT Law but by faith.

Paul gave the church many instructions. If we take your approach, we conclude that Paul's "laws" are merely additions to Moses' Law. They aren't. The Law (as Paul used the term) was the OT law only... circumcision, temple offerings, feasts, etc.

In one sense, law is law, yes, but God didn't give the command "don't wear clothing made from two types of thread" to Christians; He gave it to Israelites, and Christians are not bound by it.

When we conflate all of the NT instructions with the OT law, we get a mishmash of confusing and incompatible requirements which lead to all manner of sects holding to this bit but not that bit. "Rightly dividing the Word" means (at least) understanding which parts are applicable to us as Christians... and which aren't.

The explanations that Jesus gave in the "sermon on the mount" show how the OT law is to be applied: not with rigorous following of the letter, but with the heart. The Holy Spirit within the believer guides and convicts us to love God and our neighbour... not by careful following of written commands, but with love.
 
How do these scriptures wipe out or alter what the Word which became Flesh said in Jeremiah?
The New Covenant stated in Jeremiah and Ezekiel and reiterated in Hebrews speaks about the Ten Commandments (the moral and spiritual laws of God) being written on the hearts and minds of believers. Indeed according to Romans 2 they are already within the consciences of all people, who have not even experienced the New Birth.
All those things commanded in Acts are the Laws of God.
In Acts 15, there are four commandments stipulated for Christians, and one of them is already in the Ten Commandments.
Col. 2 says not to let men judge me for following the Laws of God.
Colossians 2 is teaching Christians that the laws pertaining to meats, drinks, holy days, new moons, and sabbath days ARE SHADOWS. They are no longer to be observed, because the reality is Christ.

Also, all the laws pertaining to the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle, the temple, the sacrifices, the tithes, etc. have all been abolished, because Christ has completely fulfilled all of that on the Cross. Study Hebrews.