New Testament only?

[Gideon300]

Some believers (?) are ignoring the Old Testament and encouraging others to do likewise. I encourage everyone to reject this foolishness.

When the first believers only had what we call the Old Testament. I've not thought about this until recently, but I believe the division is artificial. Jesus confirmed the OT as scripture many times. One example is when He was tempted in the wilderness. He replied to Satan, "It is written......."

It is also a fact that there are quotes in the NT from most of the books of the OT. This affirms that the OT is as much scripture as the NT.

Of course, not all of the OT is applicable to believers. I do not suggest that you should burn your house down if you contract a communicable disease. Neither should we be stoning people for adultery. However, there is a vast amount of wisdom and insight to be known through the OT. Rejecting it is to our own detriment.

I do encourage new believers to study the NT initially. It's probably just me, but I had a study bible early in my walk with Christ. I'd find a verse that intrigued me and see a cross reference to an OT verse. I would look at that and see another cross reference. I was like an explorer without a destination. It does not suit everyone. However, we need to know all of the Bible.

Some fear the Old Testament. The sceptics mock, especially the first 11 chapters of Genesis. There have always been mockers. Many doubted the account of Joshua and the battle of Jericho. They were silenced when the ruins of that ancient city was rediscovered. There are many more discoveries that confirm the veracity of the OT.

We need to study all of God's word with spiritual eyesight, not natural logic and reason. And we need to know the whole counsel of God, not pick a scripture and make a doctrine out of it,

For example, many are horrified that God would command Israel to kill every member of a particular tribe. However, God had good reasons. There were tribes that practiced human sacrifice, killing their own children. By sentencing that whole tribe to death, God intended that the evil practice would be ended and Israel would not be enticed into the same practice.

The tribe of Dan failed to deal with the evil tribe that occupied the land given to them. Israel suffered much as a result.

God is not arbitrary or unjust. All that He does is for a righteous purpose. We should never judge God according to our own way of thinking. Instead, we should seek to have our minds renewed. The Word of God is His way of renewing our minds.

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus Yeshua declared that He did not come to destroy the law, rather, He came tofulfill it.
The Ot and the prophets wrote of Him, and being given to see Him in the OT is a great pleasure.
He also teaches if there is a law without love, overlook it.
One law tells us to do positive actions and others are far from it. It is easy to see the differences.

 

[memberofthebride]

What does the Apostle Paul consider to be Holy Scriptures?

2 Timothy 3
15 And that from a child thou hast known the “Holy Scriptures”, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 “All” scripture [is] given by inspiration of God,
and [is] profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. ---“Good works”.

According to Paul, the Torah and the entire Old Testament has all that is necessary for followers of Jesus Christ

What is Torah?
By Jeff A. Benner
​

The Hebrew word תורה (torah, Strong's #8451) is usually translated into the English word "Law".

Because of this translation there is a great misunderstanding of what "Torah" truly is. "TORAH IS NOT LAW". When we use the word "law" we assume a certain meaning and concept of the word that is not present in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Let us start by looking at the Etymology of the Hebrew word Torah so that we may better understand its true definition. The word Torah comes from the Hebrew root word ירה (Y.R.H, Strong's #3384), a verb which means "to flow or throw something".

This can be a flowing of an arrow from an archer's bow, or the flowing of a finger to point out a direction. Nouns are derived from the verb by making one or two changes to the verb root. For instance, when the י (the letter yud) is replaced by n ו (the letter vav) and a מ (the letter mem) is added to the front of the word, the noun מורה (moreh, Strong's #4175) is formed and means "one who does the flowing".

This can be an archer who flows an arrow, or a teacher who flows his finger to point out way the student is to go in the walk of life. Another noun is formed the same way except that a ת (the letter tav) is placed at the front of the word instead of a מ (the letter mem) and we have the word Torah. Torah is "what is flowed by the Moreh". This can be the arrow from the archer or the teachings and instructions from the teacher.

A hebraic definition of Torah is "a set of Instructions, from a father to his children, violation of these instructions are disciplined in order to foster obedience and train his children". Notice how the word Torah is translated in the New International Version translation in the following passages.

"Listen, my son, to your father's instruction and do not forsake your mother's teaching [Torah]." (Proverbs 1:8)

"My son, do not forget my teaching [Torah], but keep my commands in your heart". (Proverbs 3:1)

The purpose of a parents Torah is to teach and bring the children to maturity. If the Torah is violated out of disrespect or defiant disobedience, the child is punished. If the child desires to follow the instructions out of a loving obedience but falls short of the expectations, the child is commended for the effort and counseled on how to perform the instructions better the next time.

Unlike Torah, law is a set of rules from a government and binding on a community. Violation of the rules require punishment. With this type of law, there is no room for teaching, either the law was broken with the penalty of punishment or it was not broken. God, as our heavenly Father, gives his children his Torah in the same manner as parents give their Torah to their children, not in the manner as a government does to its citizens.

"Blessed is the man you discipline, O LORD, the man you teach from your Torah" (Psalms 94:12

 

[Karlon]

Some believers (?) are ignoring the Old Testament and encouraging others to do likewise. I encourage everyone to reject this foolishness.

When the first believers only had what we call the Old Testament. I've not thought about this until recently, but I believe the division is artificial. Jesus confirmed the OT as scripture many times. One example is when He was tempted in the wilderness. He replied to Satan, "It is written......."

It is also a fact that there are quotes in the NT from most of the books of the OT. This affirms that the OT is as much scripture as the NT.

Of course, not all of the OT is applicable to believers. I do not suggest that you should burn your house down if you contract a communicable disease. Neither should we be stoning people for adultery. However, there is a vast amount of wisdom and insight to be known through the OT. Rejecting it is to our own detriment.

I do encourage new believers to study the NT initially. It's probably just me, but I had a study bible early in my walk with Christ. I'd find a verse that intrigued me and see a cross reference to an OT verse. I would look at that and see another cross reference. I was like an explorer without a destination. It does not suit everyone. However, we need to know all of the Bible.

Some fear the Old Testament. The sceptics mock, especially the first 11 chapters of Genesis. There have always been mockers. Many doubted the account of Joshua and the battle of Jericho. They were silenced when the ruins of that ancient city was rediscovered. There are many more discoveries that confirm the veracity of the OT.

We need to study all of God's word with spiritual eyesight, not natural logic and reason. And we need to know the whole counsel of God, not pick a scripture and make a doctrine out of it,

For example, many are horrified that God would command Israel to kill every member of a particular tribe. However, God had good reasons. There were tribes that practiced human sacrifice, killing their own children. By sentencing that whole tribe to death, God intended that the evil practice would be ended and Israel would not be enticed into the same practice.

The tribe of Dan failed to deal with the evil tribe that occupied the land given to them. Israel suffered much as a result.

God is not arbitrary or unjust. All that He does is for a righteous purpose. We should never judge God according to our own way of thinking. Instead, we should seek to have our minds renewed. The Word of God is His way of renewing our minds.

mostly, we are under the n.t. the 10 commandments are in the o.t. imagine forsaking them?

 

[Suze]

Some believers (?) are ignoring the Old Testament and encouraging others to do likewise. I encourage everyone to reject this foolishness.

When the first believers only had what we call the Old Testament. I've not thought about this until recently, but I believe the division is artificial. Jesus confirmed the OT as scripture many times. One example is when He was tempted in the wilderness. He replied to Satan, "It is written......."

It is also a fact that there are quotes in the NT from most of the books of the OT. This affirms that the OT is as much scripture as the NT.

Of course, not all of the OT is applicable to believers. I do not suggest that you should burn your house down if you contract a communicable disease. Neither should we be stoning people for adultery. However, there is a vast amount of wisdom and insight to be known through the OT. Rejecting it is to our own detriment.

I do encourage new believers to study the NT initially. It's probably just me, but I had a study bible early in my walk with Christ. I'd find a verse that intrigued me and see a cross reference to an OT verse. I would look at that and see another cross reference. I was like an explorer without a destination. It does not suit everyone. However, we need to know all of the Bible.

Some fear the Old Testament. The sceptics mock, especially the first 11 chapters of Genesis. There have always been mockers. Many doubted the account of Joshua and the battle of Jericho. They were silenced when the ruins of that ancient city was rediscovered. There are many more discoveries that confirm the veracity of the OT.

We need to study all of God's word with spiritual eyesight, not natural logic and reason. And we need to know the whole counsel of God, not pick a scripture and make a doctrine out of it,

For example, many are horrified that God would command Israel to kill every member of a particular tribe. However, God had good reasons. There were tribes that practiced human sacrifice, killing their own children. By sentencing that whole tribe to death, God intended that the evil practice would be ended and Israel would not be enticed into the same practice.

The tribe of Dan failed to deal with the evil tribe that occupied the land given to them. Israel suffered much as a result.

God is not arbitrary or unjust. All that He does is for a righteous purpose. We should never judge God according to our own way of thinking. Instead, we should seek to have our minds renewed. The Word of God is His way of renewing our minds.

I adore the old Testament and firmly believe that it is the foreshadow of the New . We r the Israelites , wandering in this world , towards a land that will b given to us by God , being led by our Saviour . Think of Naaman the Syrian , isn't he just us ? I could go on and on . Everything in the Old points to the New and everything in the New harks back to the Old . They reinforce each other perfectly . I honestly believe that those who refuse to read the Old r endangering themselves , it is as much written by God as the New is , if u want to get to know God how can u ignore a huge chunk of His Words to u ? .

 

[Gideon300]

mostly, we are under the n.t. the 10 commandments are in the o.t. imagine forsaking them?

I don't know where you get the idea that we are under the 10 commandments. Not from the NT, that's for sure.

Acts 15: 5-11, 19 & 20
"But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.

After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood."

Believers are under the new law. The Law of Moses is the shadow, we should be seeking the substance. Now it is.

"For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:2

The law was put in charge of us to lead us to Christ. (Galatians 3:24). If you are born again, the Law has done its job.

 

[andy700700]

Psalm 119:105
New International Version
105 Your word is a lamp for my feet,
a light on my path.

2 Timothy 3:16
New International Version
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Matthew 24:35
New International Version
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

John 17:17
New International Version
17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

Romans 10:17
New International Version
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

 

[Karlon]

I don't know where you get the idea that we are under the 10 commandments. Not from the NT, that's for sure.

Acts 15: 5-11, 19 & 20
"But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.

After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood."

Believers are under the new law. The Law of Moses is the shadow, we should be seeking the substance. Now it is.

"For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:2

The law was put in charge of us to lead us to Christ. (Galatians 3:24). If you are born again, the Law has done its job.

you misread it. i said we are under the n.t. ( grace ) !!! then, i said, imagine forsaking the 10 commandments, which are in the o.t.

 

[Gideon300]

you misread it. i said we are under the n.t. ( grace ) !!! then, i said, imagine forsaking the 10 commandments, which are in the o.t.

I don't get your point.

 

[andy700700]

Romans 6:1-2
New International Version
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

Galatians 5:14
New International Version
14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Matthew 5:17-20
New International Version
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 12:30-31
New International Version
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Deuteronomy 6:5-7
New International Version
5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

Matthew 5:27-30
New International Version
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

[Suze]

Christ has fulfilled the law , the law of love , love God and love thy neighbour , no one else has ever done that perfectly . Love is the fulfillment of the law , God is love .
We will never accomplish that 100 per cent but we r now under / in / covered by , Christ , who has fulfilled the law and if we believe in him then we r under the grace of God , Christ is the grace of God to us .

 

[JaumeJ]

Christ has fulfilled the law , the law of love , love God and love thy neighbour , no one else has ever done that perfectly . Love is the fulfillment of the law , God is love .
We will never accomplish that 100 per cent but we r now under / in / covered by , Christ , who has fulfilled the law and if we believe in him then we r under the grace of God , Christ is the grace of God to us .

It seems to me you are batting 1000 here.
Our Father, being Love, is the Only One Who IS Love.
I ask now and always that He grant us generous Love always to contiue in faith and hope> Also to teach us just how to Love as He does, again, for He, and only He IS Love. I seem to be going on a babble, forgive me that. I do believe if we Love Him properly, then His Important laws are inscribed upon our hearts.
I have yet to achieve this by grace, abut it seems to grow each day. All love in Jesus Yesua, j

 

[Karlon]

I don't get your point.

you said to me, " i don't know where you get the idea that we are under the 10 commandments". i never said that. i said, "we are under the n.t. meaning, we abide in God's grace. then i said, imagine if we forsake the 10 commandments. the 10 commandments are in the o.t. the subject was some Christians believe in forsaking the o.t. forsaking the o.t.

 

[rewriter]

you said to me, " i don't know where you get the idea that we are under the 10 commandments". i never said that. i said, "we are under the n.t. meaning, we abide in God's grace. then i said, imagine if we forsake the 10 commandments. the 10 commandments are in the o.t. the subject was some Christians believe in forsaking the o.t. forsaking the o.t.

I would add the point that the 10 commandments were given to the Jewish people, not to the Gentiles. Most believers today qualify as Gentiles. I would not say that the 10 Commandments are not worth paying attention to, but Jewish law is for the Jews. God made the Noahic covenant with all people, and it is this far more limited set of laws that apply to all believers, and this appears to have been confirmed by the apostles when they accepted Paul's mission to the Gentiles.