New world order Bible Versions (NIV ESV NKJV etc)

[trofimus]

There you go, we do not have the word of God, therefore, we are our own final authority. See the book of Judges.

We? Why "we"? You.

 

[Bogadile]

Lets be fair, you can give the Gospel to someone using any bible translation, even the watch tower version.

 

[Locutus]

Like I said "oh no, not this again"...

 

[preacher4truth]

Barney

Sounds logical if you're a KJVO'er.

 

[Angela53510]

I'll use your logic here. It doesn't matter what language was used as the "originals", the point is, God can take what was said in one language and have it translated into another and it still be the pure and holy words of God.

That is NOT what I said! God inspired Moses to write down what was needed. That was where inspiration came in. Translators are not inspired! Someone who takes the Bible and translates it into another language than the original languages, is not translating under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit! Inspiration only happens when God moved on the writers of the Bible. When the books were originally written.

The KJV is simply not inspired. It was the effort of men skilled to a certain extent to put the Bibke into the venacular of their country, which was England. The preface of the first edition notes it is not inspired. And, time has proven that to be correct.

As time passes, more is understood about the art and science of translating, so newer versions are more accurate, as in closer to the original autographs, which were inspired. Plus, language changes, some things drop out of speech, like 2nd person singular, so new versions need to reflect the changes to the receiving language.

Got it? Original language inspired, receiving language, or translations NOT inspired! I know this is difficult, John, you are so horribly stuck in this KJV Only cult! We worship Jesus, not a translation. The Bible reveals Jesus! Therefore the best translation is one we can understand in our language. Not in a language from over 400 years ago! Or, as I have suggested, learn Greek! It is not hard. And then learn Hebrew, and you will be reading the original languages, instead of the intermediary translation of the Bible, the KJV, which is neither original languages nor our modern English!

 

[Angela53510]

When it comes to a language, only one version can be correct or none. You cannot have two different English versions, containing different words, be the holy and pure words of God.

Anyone can see you have never learned another language! Languages have different syntax, you cannot overlay one language on another. Greek has completely different grammar than English. Participles are vital in Greek, even the KJV often ignores them and puts the verb in the indicative.

Then there are individual words. Any language has different options when translating into English. Sometimes my husband and I watch foreign language films with subtitles. I often question the translators choices. Does that make them wrong!? No, just a personal preference.

Pure is simply not a word you can use with regards to word choices in translation. As for Holy, I prefer to reserve that word for God, not a translation. You've been brainwashed by a cult. Go ahead and use the KJV, if it works for you. But it is no more "pure and holy" than any other translation, into any language.

Does a translation exalt Christ and point the way to him? Do you understand what it is saying? Is it faithful to the original languages? Then, that is a good translation!!

 

[preacher4truth]

Anyone can see you have never learned another language! Languages have different syntax, you cannot overlay one language on another. Greek has completely different grammar than English. Participles are vital in Greek, even the KJV often ignores them and puts the verb in the indicative.

Then there are individual words. Any language has different options when translating into English. Sometimes my husband and I watch foreign language films with subtitles. I often question the translators choices. Does that make them wrong!? No, just a personal preference.

Pure is simply not a word you can use with regards to word choices in translation. As for Holy, I prefer to reserve that word for God, not a translation. You've been brainwashed by a cult. Go ahead and use the KJV, if it works for you. But it is no more "pure and holy" than any other translation, into any language.

Does a translation exalt Christ and point the way to him? Do you understand what it is saying? Is it faithful to the original languages? Then, that is a good translation!!

Exactly, there are many ways in which the Greek can be conveyed in English to give the sense of the meaning, and still not exhaust the meaning, thus the many versions.

 

[John146]

That is NOT what I said! God inspired Moses to write down what was needed. That was where inspiration came in. Translators are not inspired! Someone who takes the Bible and translates it into another language than the original languages, is not translating under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit! Inspiration only happens when God moved on the writers of the Bible. When the books were originally written.

2 Timothy 3:15-16
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

All Scripture is inspired, not the writers. And the inspired scriptures that Timothy knew from a child, were copies of copies of copies...

So you agree that God can take a language spoken, and have those words of that language spoken, translated perfectly into another language and it be inspired scripture.

 

[Meggido]

I remember hearing someone pop the KJV Only or other versions question to an old Jewish Messianic rabbi on a trip to Israel once....

He replied.....you are free and very welcome to read any mis-translation you wish......and he walked away....

The right people will understand this and have a good chuckle...



PS:
Meanwhile the lost are still lost and Satan is well pleased in this thread...

 

[Dino246]

2 Timothy 3:15-16
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

All Scripture is inspired, not the writers. And the inspired scriptures that Timothy knew from a child, were copies of copies of copies...

You have made an error here. You correctly quoted 2 Timothy 3:16, then changed the wording to fit your belief. You quote that "all Scripture is given by inspiration," then claim that "all Scripture is inspired." It's a subtle but important difference. Simply put, the KJV, the Wycliffe, the Geneva Bible, etc., are not directly inspired. The originals were inspired. The translation is still Scripture, but you're playing with semantics (rather inappropriately) to claim that therefore the exact words of the KJV were inspired. If this were true, then the exact words of the Wycliffe, of the Geneva, of each version of Erasmus (which mutually differed!), and of Beza were all inspired. You're left with a logical impossibility.

 

[Locutus]

I just have to wonder how much these KJV onlies actually understand some of the archaic language used such as "hence" - I just went through that rigamarole with one on my Millennium thread, all to no avail.

 

[Dino246]

Yes, the original Ten Commandments (that were written by God's own finger mind you) were destroyed by Moses. Did God panic? No. God simply had Moses make a copy of the original. Later, Moses would make a copy of the copy and preserve it in the ark. How about that for double inspiration.

This is not double inspiration. Moses wrote down what God previously wrote. The Holy Spirit may have repeated what was previously written, lest Moses' memory not be perfect. The term "double inspiration" is used to denote re-inspiration of the translators as they worked. In contrast, Moses was talking directly with God and his words are original.

The Lord Jesus read out of the holy scriptures. Was Jesus reading out of the originals? Of course not, but copies of copies of copies, and yet Jesus called them holy scriptures.

I challenged you previously on this, and you dodged and weaved and avoided until the thread fell off the first page instead of providing a source. You claim that what Jesus had were "copies of copies of copies" but you don't support this claim with evidence. So, once again, (and don't play games this time!) What is your source for this claim? If you have no source other than your opinion, then stop making the claim.

 

[Dino246]

I just have to wonder how much these KJV onlies actually understand some of the archaic language used such as "hence" - I just went through that rigamarole with one on my Millennium thread, all to no avail.

I had to chuckle at your example. I use "hence" quite often in everyday speech and writing. I guess I'm archaic.

 

[Locutus]

When I was a young un, my mom would laff when I used hence in speech and writing for school.

 

[trofimus]

2 Timothy 3:15-16
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

All Scripture is inspired, not the writers. And the inspired scriptures that Timothy knew from a child, were copies of copies of copies...

So you agree that God can take a language spoken, and have those words of that language spoken, translated perfectly into another language and it be inspired scripture.

This verse actually fails you.

If "all scripture", then not just the KJV, but as Angela said, every translation and every Greek texts that is faithful to the original meaning and used in churches as Scripture.

Also, you can be sure that Timothy had quite a different Bible than you have. Even some whole books would be different.

 

[John146]

God wrote the Bible in Hebrew and Greek. Moses wrote in Hebrew, it doesn't matter what language he spoke to the Egyptians or the Canaanites in. What matters is that God inspired Moses to write in Hebrew, and, yes, Daniel wrote a bit in Aramaic, which is similar to Hebrew. That's why BDAG has a short Aramaic Lexicon in the back!

And the New Testament was inspired and written in Greek, not Elizabethan English. The KJV is not inspired, it has mistakes everywhere, because it is based on 7 corrupted, very late manuscripts, with many passages added by scribes, who being human, liked to clarify, or add margin notes, or feel asleep while being dictated to, resulting in the telephone game, and no, God did not inspire the copies, which get more and more corrupted, the further they are from the original autographs.

You dodged the whole Moses conversation by saying it doesn't matter...It does matter. God took what was said in one language and had Moses write it in another, and the translation from one language to another was inspired by God. Was it perfectly translated, every word, into the Hebrew language? Absolutely!

Here's another one.

Paul's take on Exodus 9:16 in Romans 9:17, For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

(Notice that God refers to Himself as Scripture.)

In case you didn't catch it, while penning his inspired epistle to the Gentile church at Rome, Paul did a "no-no" by creating and inserting an inspired translation of Exodus 9:16 into his Greek autograph. That my friend is "double inspiration." The Hebrew text was perfectly translated into Greek without any error, doubt, or missed wording because of language problems.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I just have to wonder how much these KJV onlies actually understand some of the archaic language used such as "hence" - I just went through that rigamarole with one on my Millennium thread, all to no avail.

1. By mocking "KJV onlies" you are forgetting that they are Christian brothers and sisters, hence you are violating the Law of Love.

2. There are no more than about two dozen actual archaisms in the KJV, which can easily be resolved with a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

3. "Thee", "thou", and "you" are exact translations and representations of what is in the Hebrew and Greek, and is still maintained in German and other languages. So that is not archaic but accurate.

4. You are also forgetting that the Holy Spirit teaches these "KJV onlies" and indeed convicts them and convinces them that all modern English translations are corrupt since they are based on corrupt critical texts for both Hebrew and Greek.

 

[preacher4truth]

You dodged the whole Moses conversation by saying it doesn't matter...It does matter. God took what was said in one language and had Moses write it in another, and the translation from one language to another was inspired by God. Was it perfectly translated, every word, into the Hebrew language? Absolutely!

It's interesting how you just make up doctrine and twist Scripture into merely paper to support the KJVO cause.

You do it below as well:

Here's another one.

Paul's take on Exodus 9:16 in Romans 9:17, For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

(Notice that God refers to Himself as Scripture.)

No, God didn't refer to His person as Scripture. In your eisegesis and relentless twisting of the Word to support the KJVO cult, you plainly wrested the above passage abusively and misuse it to support KJVO sectarianism.

Nothing in that passage is saying God refers to Himself as a Book ("Scripture" as I'll logically conclude as your sense and meaning). What you mean by "Scripture" is the KJV, 'Notice that God refers to Himself as a Scripture" thus you're saying that God is referring to Himself as the KJV, since you believe this errant laden translation to be the only true Word of God. Just showing the absurdity and that you will go to no end, even to sacrilege to twist Scripture to support the KJVO cult.

In case you didn't catch it, while penning his inspired epistle to the Gentile church at Rome, Paul did a "no-no" by creating and inserting an inspired translation of Exodus 9:16 into his Greek autograph. That my friend is "double inspiration." The Hebrew text was perfectly translated into Greek without any error, doubt, or missed wording because of language problems.

The above is utter nonsense that only KJVO cultists "see" that no one else "sees" but them. There is no double inspiration above.

You also end the above quoted nonsense that somehow, magically, the Hebrew translates word for word into Greek. That is another blatant lie.

 

[Locutus]

1. By mocking "KJV onlies" you are forgetting that they are Christian brothers and sisters, hence you are violating the Law of Love..

Some of you may well be C B's and S's - but a lot of them show signs of being spiritually and intellectually stunted.

Pointing out error is not mocking.

You are also forgetting that the Holy Spirit teaches these "KJV onlies" and indeed convicts them and convinces them that all modern English translations are corrupt

This is on one level is quite laffable, but in reality it's really sad - see my first comment.

 

[Snoozy]

apostles believed da old testament without original manuscripts. they read the greek translation of it either.
i wonder if they doubted it all da time or not. hmm.
why cant folks just believe the bible?