E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Judas was a devil from the begining and was dead in unbelief,
he was there for the wrong reason, he never lost salvation he never had it
No one helplessly falls away from Christ - it's a choice
- Thread starter MyrtleTrees
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he was there for the wrong reason, he never lost salvation he never had it
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Man it’s to the time I can not stand it anymore, so many who fail to trust in Christ for all and think they have to earn something they can never earn
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
James spoke to hearers not doers, they claimed to have faith (he never said they had faith to begin with) and his final determination is since that had no works, their faith was dead,
Thats not losing salvation, that’s a false claim of being saved when you have never been saved
So, even Moses, who was not allowed to enter the “Promised Land” would fall into this group? Or, could it be, that they lost out on a temporal blessing? That there may be a “sin unto death” (physical death) that caused them to lose out on temporal blessings, and maybe a few heavenly rewards?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Moses is not why they walked for 40 years. They walked because they failed to believe God Only a few did
Moses did
Not get in because he got mad and committed one sin. Are you saying he is
Not in heaven today?
L
lenna
Guest
what does that have to do with Judas? I mean water is wet and the sky is blue, but that does not change anything either
L
lenna
Guest
so again, you are basically presenting fair and unfair. we are saved no matter what and pre Jesus death, it was 'well that's too bad sonny, but you are out of my reach now'
L
lenna
Guest
no it isn't
v 15 on
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
L
lenna
Guest
yet, he heard and experienced all that the other 11 did and in the end he hated himself for his betrayal
I don't see Judas 'as a devil' so much as a warning to those think just because they hang out in certain circles or say the right words, that they are unknown to God
there are some who think they are already in heaven, who will hear the words 'I never knew you'
that's sobering stuff
I simply asked a question of you to see your logic. We know only two entered of the original group that fled Egypt. This group of refugees originally sacrificed a lamb and placed it’s blood on their doorways before they fled, and yet they did not enter, along with Moses.
I’m just trying to figure out if they, like Moses, simply missed out on some promises, but maybe were saved. If all sin is viewed equally, by God, then was their sins more weighty than that of Moses?
JOHN 6
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
JOHN 6
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
No one means no one NOT one, even yourself
Eternal means eternal.......ever ending. Forever.
Never means NEVER, can't happen
Argue with scripture, you argue with God
These scriptures (and probably at least 100 others, proclaim that once saved we are always saved. Eternal security
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
JOHN 6
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
No one means no one NOT one, even yourself
Eternal means eternal.......ever ending. Forever.
Never means NEVER, can't happen
Argue with scripture, you argue with God
These scriptures (and probably at least 100 others, proclaim that once saved we are always saved. Eternal security
Judas was born to betray, reprobate from his beginning. God uses whosoever to accomplish His purpose, IE: Pharoh and Cyrus
Acts 1: 16 “Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
Acts 1: 16 “Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
We can tell them by their works....and then if in a place of challenge where someone seems to be off track? Where does their heart lay? Which means they will know the heart of God and be approachable in being drawn to God’s word and design for us and not trying to make His word say what it is one wants it to say.
...and I am saying their are “believers”, who are sadly lost in their works based faith or selfish emotional trip’n faith and so why Jesus tells them on the judgement day “I never knew you.”, he is speaking to the “church” or what one could think was believers from just looking in through the windows. So your statement if “Christian” means saved? (I paraphrase), is wrong as broad and easy is the way to destruction vs hard And narrow is the way to eternal life....you really think that same analogy does not apply within what most perceive as christendom?
Does this mean Judas received the HOLY SPIRIT under law and since JESUS had not died on the cross yet the HOLY SPIRIT would've came Upon Judas but did not stay with Judas?
If Jesus does not know you , then your lost . Its that simple.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
i just look at their history
they come to the Red Sea. No faith
they come to no water. No faith
they come to no food, no faith, even after the manna
they come to the mountain where moses was given the commands, no faith
they came to the promised land no faith
there is no evidence they ever had true faith, that I can see
Remember that under law they were purifying the outward man and the HOLY SPIRIT had not been given because JESUS had not finished the redemptive work that GOD would accept yet ,so then the righteous work being spoken of here would be just the person doing the right acceptable thing.
IE
you steal something you know that wasn’t a right thing to do and that might get someone stealing killed.
At the start of His ministry when Jesus included him in the apostolic band, he certainly was saved, for the Lord Jesus gave him authority to use His Name to do signs, wonders and miracles (to confirm the Gospel) by the power of the Holy Spirit! Matt 10v1-8
So, if what you say is correct, that he was never saved, you're really throwing Scriptural principles out the window!