No Outward Act Can Save You

[Lewiz]

So where do you draw the line in the sand on Christ's Lordship in the life of a believer and also on how much obedience it takes to maintain the "believing process," as you put it?" The Christian life is one that begins with receiving Christ through faith and also recognizing Jesus as Sovereign ruler and Lord with a progressive degree of experiential submission to Him in all areas of their Christian life as one matures.

Looking for a "locked-in" number sounds like a legalist view on "what I have to do"

The main thing is "Is he doing anything at all?"

Obedience is something you do because you love the Lord, not looking for a minimum # of things to get by on.

I've heard certain people (particularly those in the sinless perfection camp) say that it's not enough to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the all sufficient means of our salvation in order to be saved, but that we must ALSO completely surrender to His Lordship if we expect to be saved. If we "completely" surrendered, then we would be sinless, 100% of the time, but that is not the case.

I've read many post of those as you call them, & they say in a nutshell that true faith is verified by obedience, faithful works done for God.

In 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, we read - And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? Does it sound like these believers at Corinth were "completely" surrendered to the Lordship of Christ? Yet Paul still referred to them as babes in Christ. They needed to mature.

I've only heard the word surrendered used, & that's the word I would use.

The problem with the phrase "totally surrendered" is that it can't be proven.

Surrender is done from the heart, not how many works one can do.

The more mature one is, the more surrendered they would obviously be.

The Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26) yet new converts are not instantly transformed into becoming fully mature in Christ. That is a process. It's not our place to judge other believers as insufficiently surrendering to the Lordship of Christ and implying they won't be saved based on their lack of performance, while exalting ourselves as sufficiently surrounding to the Lordship of Christ and implying that surely we will be saved, based on our superior performance.

No it's not our place to judge like that.

Are there such legalists in the BDF that do such things? Who are they?

It's also judging to take one that believes in living by faith & judge him as a legalist.

It's poor judgment to call oneself fully righteous & fully complete when they haven't been living a faithful life for the Lord. Profession without faithful works is empty profession, & unproven.

 

[oldethennew]

we, hub and I, always seek 'favor' with God...

 

[wanderer6059]

But is there an outward act that can exclude you?
Thats what i wonder

Honestly I believe it to be the fruit of the spirit in us, this produces the good works manifested in our natural life and living out a true Christian love walk.

 

[wanderer6059]

Yes.

Any sinful act that is the result of UNBELIEF.

Being saved through faith includes repentance toward God -- turning from sin and evil and idolatry and turning to the living God and Christ.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Acts 17:30)

Yes but repentance is a reaction to salvation and the work of grace in our life, and in truth we are only able to repent by the New born again spirit within us. So repentance is not a required act before salvation but a act that signifies the work of salvation

 

[wanderer6059]

I haven't read through the other posts as yet, so I don't know if anyone else caught this, but speaking is an outward act, and it is required for salvation, or some other corresponding outward act of faith.

Again, faith alone is dead or useless, and does not save.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

But the above scripture verse is talking about the works of faith and not works of the law.

In other words, if you don't have an accompanying corresponding outward act or work to your faith, such as confessing what you believe in your heart, it amounts to nothing.

But let me ask you this is confessing with our mouth nearly a reaction to what we have believe in our heart? If we believe are we even able to resist confessing Christ as Lord?

But after that mainly my point in "acts" is tradition of works people think benefit salvation. My view is this, every thing people porpoise that is needed to gain salvation is something that can be boasted in. But confession of Christ is Lord is a blast of the Cross alone.

 

[wanderer6059]

Define good works and faith please.

What you call byproduct, God calls fruit.

And going to church, giving to the poor, preaching or teaching God's word, singing in the quire, and so forth, are not necessarily byproducts of God's work in you.

If you recall, there are tare among the wheat and wolves among the sheep, that have been in the church for so long, they may even believe they are one of the sheep or wheat.

It also looks like obedience to the voice of the Spirit is involved in keeping one's salvation.

One certainly must keep or continue in the word of God to stay in Christ.

Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

I would disagree to an extent, to do those things truly you need the spirit and the fruit from walking in step with Him. The to even be able to want to be obedient we need the spirit at work in our life, so I'm all reality being obedient to Christ hinges on the initial means of our salvation, believing in Him and the power to help us be obedient.

 

[wanderer6059]

Your response does not answer the question.

If God commanded a outward action as the point/moment of salvation would that action be necessary to gain the salvation?

Would fulfilling that command to do the action still be seen as a "work", "law" or "sacrament"?

Were those who covered their doors posts with blood doing a "work", "law" or "sacrament"?.

You have my answer brother, all that is needed for salvation is belief in Christ, confessing Him as Lord.

 

[Milla123456]

What you can do as a christian is touch peoples hearts, you have to talk to people about Jesus and God and specially about Jesus , Jesus is the only way to go to heaven. Sometimes i had have situatuons where is hard to talk and say I BELIEVE because many people around me doesn’t but i always say that ! And why? It’s my job as a christian. You don’t have to go to the sacrament, water baptized but what god wants it’s stay connected to other christians and take care your faith to Jesus! Always talk to people about Jesus if you have a chance that could be someones savier!