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As the person who began this thread and having followed it with interest since the first post, I feel that it is now about time that I commented. My original reason for posting was as a response to situations and conversations that I have regularly with non christians, atheists, those seeking and those doubting their faith, as I meet them on the streets of Belfast. I would have to say that many of the responses to my posting have filled me with great disappointment and even annoyance.
The postings of certain people, such as Jack H in particular really do give me concern because of the abrasive nature of them. A young person that I have regular contact with, also follows this forum and their comment to me was that looking in from the outside of Christianity and seeking to find the beauty of Jesus for themselves they feel that if this is the way christians talk to each other they don't know if they want any part of it. There seems to be little in the way of love and more about point scoring in some ofthe comments made.....perhaps a wee step back guys and remember that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses and it is our responsibility to represent Christ as His new creations rather than pushing some ultimately "unprovable" points of view at the expense of reflecting ( all be it imperfectly) to others....their souls are more important than their intellects!!!
The postings of certain people, such as Jack H in particular really do give me concern because of the abrasive nature of them. A young person that I have regular contact with, also follows this forum and their comment to me was that looking in from the outside of Christianity and seeking to find the beauty of Jesus for themselves they feel that if this is the way christians talk to each other they don't know if they want any part of it. There seems to be little in the way of love and more about point scoring in some ofthe comments made.....perhaps a wee step back guys and remember that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses and it is our responsibility to represent Christ as His new creations rather than pushing some ultimately "unprovable" points of view at the expense of reflecting ( all be it imperfectly) to others....their souls are more important than their intellects!!!
Welcome, young person.
Unfortunately, I do need to advocate following Christ above following Christians.
There is a beauty and cohesiveness to the stories that we have in the Bible of Christ. He is the central character from Genesis to Revelation. The words and works of Jesus Christ are like those of no other. A great many prophecies remain to be fulfilled.
Love should be the distinguishing characteristic of Christians but sadly there are more professions than demonstrations of genuine Christianity.
Heaven, hell, eternity, justice, mercy, humility, love, faith, hope, wisdom, eternity are among the great themes to consider.
May you seek and find much to delight in!
Unfortunately, I do need to advocate following Christ above following Christians.
There is a beauty and cohesiveness to the stories that we have in the Bible of Christ. He is the central character from Genesis to Revelation. The words and works of Jesus Christ are like those of no other. A great many prophecies remain to be fulfilled.
Love should be the distinguishing characteristic of Christians but sadly there are more professions than demonstrations of genuine Christianity.
Heaven, hell, eternity, justice, mercy, humility, love, faith, hope, wisdom, eternity are among the great themes to consider.
May you seek and find much to delight in!
The Hebrew word "yom" is used 2,304 times in the Scriptures. Whereas it can have different meanings, the meaning is always apparent from usage patterns and the context. To my knowledge, there is no contention as to the correct meaning of the word in any other location in the Bible, other than Genesis 1-11. If you were more open minded, this might grab your attention and make you wonder why only in these 11 chapters is there a problem.
The term, "evening and morning" defines "yom" as a literal 24 hour day. In addition, in almost every case where a number is used, such as first day, second day, ect. the word "yom" indicates a 24 hour day. The ordinary definition of "yom" is a 24 hour day. In Genesis 1:5, yom occurs in context with the word "night". Outside of Genesis 1, yom is used with night 52 times and in each occasion it means a literal 24 hour day. Why would Genesis 1 be an exception?
The term, "evening and morning" defines "yom" as a literal 24 hour day. In addition, in almost every case where a number is used, such as first day, second day, ect. the word "yom" indicates a 24 hour day. The ordinary definition of "yom" is a 24 hour day. In Genesis 1:5, yom occurs in context with the word "night". Outside of Genesis 1, yom is used with night 52 times and in each occasion it means a literal 24 hour day. Why would Genesis 1 be an exception?
Hosea 6:2 (NASB): “He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, That we will live before Him.”
Day (yom) doesn’t mean a 24-hour period in that verse, does it? It would appear to me to mean an indefinite period of time.
Your problem with “evening and morning” may be your Bible. The KJV, erroneously compresses the two events into a sum. The Greek and the NASB do not.
In Psalm 90, A Prayer of Moses, “morning” is the beginning of life and “evening” is the end of life.
Speaking of Moses, he used the word “yom” in many different ways – to mean 12-hours, 24 hours, the creative week, several months, a lifetime, and eternity. For example, Genesis 44:32 (NASB): “. . . let me bear the blame before my father forever.” “Yom” is translated to “forever.”
Day (yom) doesn’t mean a 24-hour period in that verse, does it? It would appear to me to mean an indefinite period of time.
Your problem with “evening and morning” may be your Bible. The KJV, erroneously compresses the two events into a sum. The Greek and the NASB do not.
In Psalm 90, A Prayer of Moses, “morning” is the beginning of life and “evening” is the end of life.
Speaking of Moses, he used the word “yom” in many different ways – to mean 12-hours, 24 hours, the creative week, several months, a lifetime, and eternity. For example, Genesis 44:32 (NASB): “. . . let me bear the blame before my father forever.” “Yom” is translated to “forever.”
A
You're faith is commendable. The Bible certainly is correct that "to everyone is given a measure of faith." But neo-Darwinian macro evolutionary theory is faulty to the point of collapse. Here's just a few examples of what I'm talking about:
Etc... etc... etc... I can produce thousands of such evidences refuting commonly taught assertions with respect to the theory.
It's nice that you have faith; however, it's faith resulting from heavy indoctrination in a profoundly faulty theory. Just as a Muslim is indoctrinated to believe in the false religious system of Islam, you were indoctrinated to believe in faulty neo-Darwinian macro evolutionary theory. Which, of course, means that you and most Muslims have something in common.
Your posts are riddled with error so that's why you fall back on infantile comments. Your assertion that the faulty theory of neo-Darwinian macro evolutionary theory is as strong as the theory of gravity or germ theory is patently false.
I know exactly what a scientific theory is and creationism is supported by scientific evidence. Entire associations of scientists exist that construct creation models from scientific evidence as I've already demonstrated. Your denial simply reveals that you are in denial.
The only thing that's irrelevant in this discussion are your continuing false assertions, ad hominem, and colossal ignorance. I know exactly what I'm talking about and you are wrong.
- General Rebuttal to the Theory of Evolution - a general examination of why macroevolution is false
- A Scientific Case Against Evolution by Robert Locke, a self-described, non-creationist
- The Philosophical Impossibility of Darwinian Naturalistic Evolution by Dennis Bonnette
- Intentional Deception by Evolutionists - Oops! Evolutionists caught using the "techniques of creationists"!
- Evolution of Banana-Eating Moth in Less Than 1000 Years? In this "best example of evolution," Kenneth Miller got the genus wrong, the number of species wrong and outright lied about the evolution of "specialized mouth parts."
- Did Scientists Evolve a Multicellular Organism from a Single-Celled Organism? - Even though it took 3 billion years for multicellular organisms to appear on earth, scientists were able to produce multicellular organisms from unicellular ones in mere days. If you believe that, I have a bridge you can buy!
- Demise of the "Birds are Dinosaurs" Theory - two clever studies by well-known avian evolutionists. - "The opponents of the theropod hypothesis refuse to propose an alternative hypothesis that is falsifiable. This is probably because there are no other suitable candidates for avian ancestors".
- Tetrapod Tracks Overturn Reigning Evolutionary Theory on Fish-Tetrapod Transition - Fossilized tracks of large, advanced four legged animals are found from 395 million years ago - at least 10-30 million years before the existence of their transitional or intermediate "ancestors."
- Early Design in Eyes from Shrimp-like Anomalocaris - How did evolution design 16,000-lense eyes and the neural capacity to interpret it only a few tens of millions of years after the first animal life appeared in the seas?
- Sexual Reproduction: A Continuing Mystery to Evolutionists - Sexual reproduction and recombination acts to dilute Permanent structural alterations in DNA, consisting of either substitutions, insertions or deletions of nucleotide bases.mutations - minimizing the effects of harmful Permanent structural alterations in DNA, consisting of either substitutions, insertions or deletions of nucleotide bases.mutations to preserve fitness, but also concealing beneficial Permanent structural alterations in DNA, consisting of either substitutions, insertions or deletions of nucleotide bases.mutations, which prevents these Permanent structural alterations in DNA, consisting of either substitutions, insertions or deletions of nucleotide bases mutations from being acted on by natural selection.
- Recent Problems in Evolution - expose of evolution's failings (from 1990 onward)
- The Evolution (NOT!) Times - news not found in your local newspaper or evolution textbook.
- Second Thoughts about Peppered Moths - This classical story of evolution by natural selection needs revising, by Jonathan Wells, Ph.D. (off site)
- Meyer, S.C. 2004 The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories. Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington 117:213-239. A peer-reviewed publication delineating the profound problem of information explosion during the Cambrian, arguing that intelligent design provides a better explanation than natural selection.
Etc... etc... etc... I can produce thousands of such evidences refuting commonly taught assertions with respect to the theory.
It's nice that you have faith; however, it's faith resulting from heavy indoctrination in a profoundly faulty theory. Just as a Muslim is indoctrinated to believe in the false religious system of Islam, you were indoctrinated to believe in faulty neo-Darwinian macro evolutionary theory. Which, of course, means that you and most Muslims have something in common.
Your posts are riddled with error so that's why you fall back on infantile comments. Your assertion that the faulty theory of neo-Darwinian macro evolutionary theory is as strong as the theory of gravity or germ theory is patently false.
I know exactly what a scientific theory is and creationism is supported by scientific evidence. Entire associations of scientists exist that construct creation models from scientific evidence as I've already demonstrated. Your denial simply reveals that you are in denial.
The only thing that's irrelevant in this discussion are your continuing false assertions, ad hominem, and colossal ignorance. I know exactly what I'm talking about and you are wrong.
Do you ever ride in a car? Why? I can show you where people have died in cars. What about airplanes. Just recently an airplane disappeared. Do you know for certain that the brakes are going to work in your car? This must drive you absolutely crazy. No?
Is that the way you live your life? Finding exceptions to the rule so that you can win an argument or prove a point? You make an argument from context, yet when it comes to Genesis, you don't argue from the context, not really. For if you really believed your own argument, then your life is very inconsistent. Because you don't live in a way in which you really believe the exceptions are the rule.
If you are honest with yourself, you are not making a biblical argument from context, but searching for exceptions to the rule, so that you can feel comfortable with the world. You are afraid of not fitting in. The bible must fit what the world says it does, or you might not be fashionable.
That is a dangerous road to travel. 80% of young people who don't believe in a literal translation of Genesis eventually doubt the bible in general, and leave Christianity. That's a fact Jack!
I agree that there is too much hostility between Christians - for so many reasons. But it would probably be a good idea to point out that there are quite a few people who are not Christians on this forum. And even among those who are "Christians", there are many that are only Christian in name (not just on this forum, but in Church), there are many who, just like every other group, have anger issues, and ALL of us are involved in the battle between the inner and outer man.
S
One other thing to tell this young person is there are false teachers here whether by ignorance, or intently. Teaching things that could confuse a young believer or someone that attends a church that is seeker sensitive, or not strong on Biblical teaching. As a believer we want to see every man become mature in Christ. So there is debating and then there is the other where it becomes a personal attack or just about being heard or self-justification.
I originally thought this was a Christian forum and some cults had snuck in but, have since learned its wide open, and really more of a religious forum with a majority professing to believers, but with no doctrinal standard, confession or even an agreement of the fundamentals of the Christian faith. So Christian can mean anything you want it to, but not necessarily Biblical or orthodox Christianity.
I originally thought this was a Christian forum and some cults had snuck in but, have since learned its wide open, and really more of a religious forum with a majority professing to believers, but with no doctrinal standard, confession or even an agreement of the fundamentals of the Christian faith. So Christian can mean anything you want it to, but not necessarily Biblical or orthodox Christianity.
I don’t know that “collapse” is the right word, but the case for neo-Darwinian macroevolution has become weak, in my opinion.
What is your perspective on changes in the frequencies of alleles in gene pools, limited common descent, and descent with modification?
Evolution?
Should that be called evolution and be taught in high school science classes?
What is your perspective on changes in the frequencies of alleles in gene pools, limited common descent, and descent with modification?
Evolution?
Should that be called evolution and be taught in high school science classes?
E
I wonder what Jesus would say about you using a spiritual meaning of the seventh day to interpret day in genesis, and not the physical meaning (a day of rest and solitude)
I do not think he would be very pleased.
the sabbath rest is never called a sabbath day in the NT. The sabbath day was and always is the 7th day of the week (as we know saterday)
E
the bible explains this clear as day.we homosapiens have never changed. our dna is uniquely the same but undeniably different from any other form of life including other human species. the theory of evolution is just that a bad theory.but it goes hand and hand with the scientific theory of the planet earths origin even the big bang theory. would you like me to show you where it explanes it clear taking nothing out of context.