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I don't see giving gifts as wrong. I do see that we have commercialized Christmas to an amazing degree in America. My middle nephew was looking through a Lego book a few years ago and he said, "This is what I want for Christmas, Grandma," It was April. I cringed.
There are those things you can do where you buy a goat and such for people in other countries. That is what I want to do for my nephews. Then, of course, give them a little something they can have in their hands as well. My three nephews all have different moms. Two of my nephews have Christmas with their mom's side of the family and then with their dad's side. Talk about an overage of gifts. But is that the nephews fault? Nope.
I agree that we tend to punish our children with our radical approaches. Yes, Christmas is commercialized, but by denying kids gifts, you aren't teaching them anything, except to hate church. Seriously. One of the biggest gripes I heard from young adults who have cut God out of their lives was how their parents destroyed all their He-Man toys or wouldn't let them have a t.v. There are better ways to teach youth about values and morals and right living than to go all crazy and yank away their gifts, like your nephew is doing.
I know that there are families that have their kids volunteer at a homeless shelter for Christmas and take gifts to kids in those shelters and then they have a gift or two themselves at home. It is a fine balance. I am so through with Christmas as it is lived in the world, but that doesn't mean that I would tell my nephews, "Hey. I'm sick of commercialism and so I'm not giving you anything. Deal with it."
Just saying.
There are those things you can do where you buy a goat and such for people in other countries. That is what I want to do for my nephews. Then, of course, give them a little something they can have in their hands as well. My three nephews all have different moms. Two of my nephews have Christmas with their mom's side of the family and then with their dad's side. Talk about an overage of gifts. But is that the nephews fault? Nope.
I agree that we tend to punish our children with our radical approaches. Yes, Christmas is commercialized, but by denying kids gifts, you aren't teaching them anything, except to hate church. Seriously. One of the biggest gripes I heard from young adults who have cut God out of their lives was how their parents destroyed all their He-Man toys or wouldn't let them have a t.v. There are better ways to teach youth about values and morals and right living than to go all crazy and yank away their gifts, like your nephew is doing.
I know that there are families that have their kids volunteer at a homeless shelter for Christmas and take gifts to kids in those shelters and then they have a gift or two themselves at home. It is a fine balance. I am so through with Christmas as it is lived in the world, but that doesn't mean that I would tell my nephews, "Hey. I'm sick of commercialism and so I'm not giving you anything. Deal with it."
Just saying.
I know of a lad who was very poor. A relative took him to church one Christmas Eve, and a lady there gave him an apple for Christmas. He was bursting with joy, and he could not believe just how big and red this gift was. Then thinking about it, he walked over to the church's nativity and placed it by the Baby saying, "Happy Birthday Jesus."
It was not the little boy's birthday...........
It was not the little boy's birthday...........
i grew up and we never celebrated Christmas in the same manner as many in the u.s.,also the world. now my mother always told us that she knew that we would return to school and the other children would ask what we got and tell us what they got. so she didn't want us to be hurt. now around Christmas in the old days the prices of things were cheaper(now the sales after Xmas) so my parents got us toys to play with,clothes ect.
most people i notice who do celebrate Xmas assume everyone around them celebrate it also. my entire life Ive been told "merry Christmas",,now to not be rude i would say,,,"oh,thank you you to",,,at work when Xmas came around they would draw names and whether or not i believed the way they did or not i was forced to participate. a few times i tried to tell them i believed different and didn't celebrate it,but then i had opened up my self to name calling,(Grinch that stole Christmas,scrooge,ect.),,,
now there are many christian religions that do not celebrate Xmas "church of Christ,Jehovah's witnesses,christian Jews ect.",,,if any of these and other religions are in the work place, school ect. and the ones who celebrate Xmas decide to hang up stockings,they always put the names of those who don't celebrate Xmas on them and "a little here a little there,by force of humility those who believe different are subjected to celebrate another persons religious practice".
i dont miss Xmas(feel deprived) any more than you miss growing up as a child and not getting the opportunity to celebrate,Ramadan,Hanukkah,Kwanza or the holidays of any of the other religions in the world.(no offense in me stating this that way). but as i grew up i began to dread the different holidays because i knew that i would be ridiculed for not celebrating them,birthdays,Xmas ect.,,,,
you said your nephews children were 7 and 9 and he stopped celebrating "a few years ago",,which means they were 5-7,,so you see they would find it the very same if you showed up with the things you celebrate your religion with as if one year all of those who believe to celebrate Xmas were forced to not "celebrate it",,,and were forced instead to celebrate the holidays of the Muslim religion.
across the years i have had people anonymously deliver gifts,once on Christmas morning(a friend noticed we had no tree or gifts) a group of people from a church came with a fully decorated tree,presents for my boys,one for me and my wife,and a complete nativity seine,a turkey dinner ect. that is they fully assumed that we were so extremely poor that they should all chip in and provide something that they thought we did not have.
Christmas,birthdays thanks giving ect. are a very controversial issue in the Americas(i am christian Jew,if what Ive said made any curious,so i do believe Jesus is the Messiah,i went to a church of Christ till i was about 16 then after researching family genealogy found family members who were christian Jew,i.e. bloodline) ,,,,,
i suppose to be able to explain it in a manner that would make the most since would be,,,,"this Christmas eve,in the middle of the night take all of the presents,food,decorations tree ect. and put them all in the car and sneak over to someones house who doesn't believe in Christmas,hang all of the lights,sneak into their house and set up the tree,put all of the gifts under it,,set the food on their table. then set up a cam corder so you can watch them wake up from your computer and go home and watch,,,that is both families will experience the others beliefs of a Holiday they do not believe in.,,,,
i am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings,if i did i do apologize. but customs of different holidays in the present world(especially in the u.s.) are very different. i because of being christian and experiencing this from year to year have researched the different holidays many times. Christmas i find the most interesting,i probably have as many questions about it(but am afraid to ask),as i do my own points of view.
not that i am beginning to question the decisions i made years ago pertaining to holidays. but rather from being in the position of not celebrating them and watching those who do in the the practice of celebrating the different holidays. well as i said my intention was not to offend any of you,and i hope i have not,,,,,
most people i notice who do celebrate Xmas assume everyone around them celebrate it also. my entire life Ive been told "merry Christmas",,now to not be rude i would say,,,"oh,thank you you to",,,at work when Xmas came around they would draw names and whether or not i believed the way they did or not i was forced to participate. a few times i tried to tell them i believed different and didn't celebrate it,but then i had opened up my self to name calling,(Grinch that stole Christmas,scrooge,ect.),,,
now there are many christian religions that do not celebrate Xmas "church of Christ,Jehovah's witnesses,christian Jews ect.",,,if any of these and other religions are in the work place, school ect. and the ones who celebrate Xmas decide to hang up stockings,they always put the names of those who don't celebrate Xmas on them and "a little here a little there,by force of humility those who believe different are subjected to celebrate another persons religious practice".
i dont miss Xmas(feel deprived) any more than you miss growing up as a child and not getting the opportunity to celebrate,Ramadan,Hanukkah,Kwanza or the holidays of any of the other religions in the world.(no offense in me stating this that way). but as i grew up i began to dread the different holidays because i knew that i would be ridiculed for not celebrating them,birthdays,Xmas ect.,,,,
you said your nephews children were 7 and 9 and he stopped celebrating "a few years ago",,which means they were 5-7,,so you see they would find it the very same if you showed up with the things you celebrate your religion with as if one year all of those who believe to celebrate Xmas were forced to not "celebrate it",,,and were forced instead to celebrate the holidays of the Muslim religion.
across the years i have had people anonymously deliver gifts,once on Christmas morning(a friend noticed we had no tree or gifts) a group of people from a church came with a fully decorated tree,presents for my boys,one for me and my wife,and a complete nativity seine,a turkey dinner ect. that is they fully assumed that we were so extremely poor that they should all chip in and provide something that they thought we did not have.
Christmas,birthdays thanks giving ect. are a very controversial issue in the Americas(i am christian Jew,if what Ive said made any curious,so i do believe Jesus is the Messiah,i went to a church of Christ till i was about 16 then after researching family genealogy found family members who were christian Jew,i.e. bloodline) ,,,,,
i suppose to be able to explain it in a manner that would make the most since would be,,,,"this Christmas eve,in the middle of the night take all of the presents,food,decorations tree ect. and put them all in the car and sneak over to someones house who doesn't believe in Christmas,hang all of the lights,sneak into their house and set up the tree,put all of the gifts under it,,set the food on their table. then set up a cam corder so you can watch them wake up from your computer and go home and watch,,,that is both families will experience the others beliefs of a Holiday they do not believe in.,,,,
i am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings,if i did i do apologize. but customs of different holidays in the present world(especially in the u.s.) are very different. i because of being christian and experiencing this from year to year have researched the different holidays many times. Christmas i find the most interesting,i probably have as many questions about it(but am afraid to ask),as i do my own points of view.
not that i am beginning to question the decisions i made years ago pertaining to holidays. but rather from being in the position of not celebrating them and watching those who do in the the practice of celebrating the different holidays. well as i said my intention was not to offend any of you,and i hope i have not,,,,,
It really never bothered me at all. Frankly, growing up amongst other children who were from low income to affluent families, I felt a lot of sympathy for classmates who were from wealthy families. They had a lot of responsibility for their age, and I could see how diligent most were in meeting them. This was a different time. Of course when I saw Prince Charles in a newsreel I also pitied him because of his responsibilites. He was about my age, and I saw him being ever so formal in Buckingham Palace, actually in a garden. I was impressed how I was pretty much free to do as I liked while he was not. As for Christmas gifts, sure, I suppose I would have loved to have bunches every year, but it did not bother me that others did. I never understood why people say such things.
C
What defines a gift?
If it's something someone needed we don't have to wait for a specific date to give, do we?
If it's something someone not needed then why giving it in the first place? Why not to the poor?
Christmas is, for many, throwing junk at each other evident by the "gifts" categorised by $ value at Walmark.
If it's something someone needed we don't have to wait for a specific date to give, do we?
If it's something someone not needed then why giving it in the first place? Why not to the poor?
Christmas is, for many, throwing junk at each other evident by the "gifts" categorised by $ value at Walmark.
M
Christmas is about remembering and celebrating that God gave His best gift, Jesus, to us, and so on Christmas we give gifts to each other to commemorate that.
I would say don't talk to the guy about it. He's obviously weak in discernment to buy into this nonsense, and whatever church pastor told him that he's going to hang on to, following what his church pastor says is sin and not what the Bible says is/isn't sin. It's not sinful to give gifts to your family. I think the only way he would listen to reason from you is if you have a strong connection with him, stronger than how he holds his pastor's words in regard. And if you can reason with him, you should probably help him find a better church.
I would say don't talk to the guy about it. He's obviously weak in discernment to buy into this nonsense, and whatever church pastor told him that he's going to hang on to, following what his church pastor says is sin and not what the Bible says is/isn't sin. It's not sinful to give gifts to your family. I think the only way he would listen to reason from you is if you have a strong connection with him, stronger than how he holds his pastor's words in regard. And if you can reason with him, you should probably help him find a better church.
R
I was just thinking on simpler terms. When I was in kindergarten, my mom never let me have gummi fruit snacks (they were so popular around that time and there were all these competing brands and stuff). Pretty much everyone in my school got these little fruit snacks, and I had to watch them all eat them and I usually got none unless someone shared theirs with me.
But when I was by myself and not around the influence of all the stuff the other kids got, I was content with my life. But all my friends got to eat way more sugar than me so I kinda felt like I was missing out. Not in a huge way though.
On the bright side, years later, I ended up being the only teenager who didn't get a cavity as a child. I still haven't gotten a cavity. So that's something.
But when I was by myself and not around the influence of all the stuff the other kids got, I was content with my life. But all my friends got to eat way more sugar than me so I kinda felt like I was missing out. Not in a huge way though.
On the bright side, years later, I ended up being the only teenager who didn't get a cavity as a child. I still haven't gotten a cavity. So that's something.
I appreciate your articulation on the subject. Truly, one can't miss what one's never had.
I've celebrated Christmas all of my life. I've enjoyed the music, decorating, gift-giving, breakfasts & dinners with family and friends. I can remember as far back as being 7 or 8 and jumping for joy when I got this one toy I had been asking for since I saw it on TV. Made me SO happy. We'd sit and watch the classic cartoons and Christmas shows together. It was wonderful.
I've celebrated Christmas all of my life...until 3 years ago. 5 years ago I started studying scripture (along with other things) searching for the truth of life. 4 years ago God starting revealing portions of truth about his son, that he was the life. And since then I noticed God would only reveal as much truth to me as I was willing to live in.
Now since 2010 I've also been called Scrooge, Mr. "Bah humbug", or Grinch by my family. And the thing is I never imposed what I now understand onto them. I'd simply say "I know you'd love me to participate but I can't. I'm sorry." And when pressed I would say "I made a promise to God." And when pressed further I'd be forced to explain and it would turn into this long quasi-argument that I specifically did not want to get into. lol and then I'd get accused of judging them, or hurting them (or my mother) when what I was doing was between me and God. Frankly, I MISS all of the tradition. I get a knot in my gut each time the season rolls around not just because I have to answer the same questions (and be a target for the same labels or resentment), but I get uncomfortable because I truly want to celebrate *my* holidays again. Yet refusing to do so is my offering to the Lord.
And yes, as much as I'd pretended that celebrating Christmas was for Christ, it was for me. *I* liked how the holiday made *me* feel; the atmosphere..."The Christmas Spirit". I thoroughly enjoyed being immersed in that spirit. But now I desired to be immersed in another spirit...I wanted to be baptized in "The Holy Spirit" fire, a gift no one can give me but Christ. But unfortunately, the Holy Spirit can not descend into his temple unless and until that temple is built to precise specification and thoroughly purified exactly as instructed (which has and will always been the case). And until that happens the cloud remains *above* his people. Oh the Holy Spirit truly continues to be *with* God's people, guiding them daily in their wilderness walk...but he can not be *in* his living tabernacles until they're prepared as instructed. It's what he told Moses when building the tabernacle and it's exactly what was required of the Apostles, which prepped then to receive it at Pentecost. That's the gift I want, and no other gift can compare to it...and in order to get it I must worship God in spirit and "in truth", not "in my traditions". I wholeheartedly believe that's why we don't see the manifested power of the Holy Spirit anymore; because the living temple now has leaven in it.
The path must be made straight. The Lord's way must be prepared *before* he can return.
Everyone's at their own stage in their walk towards the promise land (or their climb up the mountain, whichever metaphor you prefer). But as for my walk, I knew I had to make this choice. I knew I had to leave this part of my Egypt behind.
And wouldn't you know it...? As soon as I chose God over my tradition, God clearly revealed in the 1st two chapters of Luke Christ's birthday. It's right there; a holiday celebrated for millennia, and commanded by God to be remembered for all our generations, combining both "thanksgiving" for God's provision AND celebration of "Christ's birth" into one 7-day extravaganza. God's people are even commanded to use their tithes *specifically* to buy everything needed to celebrate on that holiday!
Just imagine that. To be commanded (by God) to use our church tithes to buy Thanksgiving food and Christmas gifts for our own fun. Talk about savings! Truly, God is about freedom and not bondage (financial debt).
I've celebrated Christmas all of my life. I've enjoyed the music, decorating, gift-giving, breakfasts & dinners with family and friends. I can remember as far back as being 7 or 8 and jumping for joy when I got this one toy I had been asking for since I saw it on TV. Made me SO happy. We'd sit and watch the classic cartoons and Christmas shows together. It was wonderful.
I've celebrated Christmas all of my life...until 3 years ago. 5 years ago I started studying scripture (along with other things) searching for the truth of life. 4 years ago God starting revealing portions of truth about his son, that he was the life. And since then I noticed God would only reveal as much truth to me as I was willing to live in.
Now since 2010 I've also been called Scrooge, Mr. "Bah humbug", or Grinch by my family. And the thing is I never imposed what I now understand onto them. I'd simply say "I know you'd love me to participate but I can't. I'm sorry." And when pressed I would say "I made a promise to God." And when pressed further I'd be forced to explain and it would turn into this long quasi-argument that I specifically did not want to get into. lol and then I'd get accused of judging them, or hurting them (or my mother) when what I was doing was between me and God. Frankly, I MISS all of the tradition. I get a knot in my gut each time the season rolls around not just because I have to answer the same questions (and be a target for the same labels or resentment), but I get uncomfortable because I truly want to celebrate *my* holidays again. Yet refusing to do so is my offering to the Lord.
And yes, as much as I'd pretended that celebrating Christmas was for Christ, it was for me. *I* liked how the holiday made *me* feel; the atmosphere..."The Christmas Spirit". I thoroughly enjoyed being immersed in that spirit. But now I desired to be immersed in another spirit...I wanted to be baptized in "The Holy Spirit" fire, a gift no one can give me but Christ. But unfortunately, the Holy Spirit can not descend into his temple unless and until that temple is built to precise specification and thoroughly purified exactly as instructed (which has and will always been the case). And until that happens the cloud remains *above* his people. Oh the Holy Spirit truly continues to be *with* God's people, guiding them daily in their wilderness walk...but he can not be *in* his living tabernacles until they're prepared as instructed. It's what he told Moses when building the tabernacle and it's exactly what was required of the Apostles, which prepped then to receive it at Pentecost. That's the gift I want, and no other gift can compare to it...and in order to get it I must worship God in spirit and "in truth", not "in my traditions". I wholeheartedly believe that's why we don't see the manifested power of the Holy Spirit anymore; because the living temple now has leaven in it.
The path must be made straight. The Lord's way must be prepared *before* he can return.
Everyone's at their own stage in their walk towards the promise land (or their climb up the mountain, whichever metaphor you prefer). But as for my walk, I knew I had to make this choice. I knew I had to leave this part of my Egypt behind.
And wouldn't you know it...? As soon as I chose God over my tradition, God clearly revealed in the 1st two chapters of Luke Christ's birthday. It's right there; a holiday celebrated for millennia, and commanded by God to be remembered for all our generations, combining both "thanksgiving" for God's provision AND celebration of "Christ's birth" into one 7-day extravaganza. God's people are even commanded to use their tithes *specifically* to buy everything needed to celebrate on that holiday!
Just imagine that. To be commanded (by God) to use our church tithes to buy Thanksgiving food and Christmas gifts for our own fun. Talk about savings! Truly, God is about freedom and not bondage (financial debt).
I love Christmas! When I was a teacher, it always gave me the opportunity to share the gospel with the children I taught music to. We would learn the carols, have a little show for the parents. Then I would read them the Bible story and explain what Christmas was really about. That was in public Canadian schools. I never had a complaint, except one year when I was sick and cancelled the "annual" Christmas concert which the parents loved. (And I taught MANY children from other races and religions!)
I always gave my kids gifts, and I never regretted it. I also played in our church Christmas production which was an evangelist effort, and over 10,000 people saw. A friend of mine's daughter saw it the day after she saw the ballet production of Nutcracker and said it was better.
Now that my children are grown, I have been finding ways to give to those who have less. A well in Africa, a library in India, those sorts of things. My children are fine with that expression of God's love. Of course, now I have 3 grandchildren, so I will be buying them a few gifts.
I think if someone studies the Bible and concludes that it is wrong, that is their decision. I have a lot of objections to some pastor telling them they should not give presents to their kids. That is following a man.
This is an individual decision. My preference is to show God's love by gift giving, baking cookies and decorations which can all be part of the joy of the season of the birth of the Messiah. (Not saying this was the actual time, just the tradition of when we celebrate!)
Besides, if you lived in northern Canada, you would appreciate the colours and relief from the clouded skies and snow. I just wish there were more celebrations to make the winter a bit shorter. LOL
I always gave my kids gifts, and I never regretted it. I also played in our church Christmas production which was an evangelist effort, and over 10,000 people saw. A friend of mine's daughter saw it the day after she saw the ballet production of Nutcracker and said it was better.
Now that my children are grown, I have been finding ways to give to those who have less. A well in Africa, a library in India, those sorts of things. My children are fine with that expression of God's love. Of course, now I have 3 grandchildren, so I will be buying them a few gifts.
I think if someone studies the Bible and concludes that it is wrong, that is their decision. I have a lot of objections to some pastor telling them they should not give presents to their kids. That is following a man.
This is an individual decision. My preference is to show God's love by gift giving, baking cookies and decorations which can all be part of the joy of the season of the birth of the Messiah. (Not saying this was the actual time, just the tradition of when we celebrate!)
Besides, if you lived in northern Canada, you would appreciate the colours and relief from the clouded skies and snow. I just wish there were more celebrations to make the winter a bit shorter. LOL
I've never given my kids christmas gifts because they've never celebrated christmas.
They're not lacking anything physically, emotionally, or spiritually.
How is your nephew's relationship with God? More importantly, how are his kids'? If he's in love with, and serving our Savior, and his kids are thriving, what does it matter if he does or doesn't celebrate it? Christmas, and specifically the giving of gifts to one another, isn't Biblical. So I don't think it's something that needs to be addressed with him.
They're not lacking anything physically, emotionally, or spiritually.
How is your nephew's relationship with God? More importantly, how are his kids'? If he's in love with, and serving our Savior, and his kids are thriving, what does it matter if he does or doesn't celebrate it? Christmas, and specifically the giving of gifts to one another, isn't Biblical. So I don't think it's something that needs to be addressed with him.