"Not by works" - false!
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The scripture does not tell use WHY we do something .. only what we are to do. The scripture is irrelevant. All verses, and there are 15 or so, quoted by those who believe it is up to them of themselves to continue believing quote scriptures that tell you what you must do but not what causes you to do it.
If you find me one verse that tell me WHY, I will listen. A verses show say something like you must continue to believe to be save and you, independent of must do the believing.
Now here is a verse telling one WHY one has eternal security. Notice, it is God doing the work
1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation [regardless of its source] has overtaken or enticed you that is not common to human experience [nor is any temptation unusual or beyond human resistance]; but God is faithful [to His word—He is compassionate and trustworthy], and He will not let you be tempted beyond your ability [to resist], but along with the temptation He [has in the past and is now and] will [always] provide the way out as well, so that you will be able to endure it [without yielding, and will overcome temptation with joy].
Philippians 1:6 I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return].
GIVE ME A WHY verse! Not a WHAT verse.
If you find me one verse that tell me WHY, I will listen. A verses show say something like you must continue to believe to be save and you, independent of must do the believing.
Now here is a verse telling one WHY one has eternal security. Notice, it is God doing the work
1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation [regardless of its source] has overtaken or enticed you that is not common to human experience [nor is any temptation unusual or beyond human resistance]; but God is faithful [to His word—He is compassionate and trustworthy], and He will not let you be tempted beyond your ability [to resist], but along with the temptation He [has in the past and is now and] will [always] provide the way out as well, so that you will be able to endure it [without yielding, and will overcome temptation with joy].
Philippians 1:6 I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return].
GIVE ME A WHY verse! Not a WHAT verse.
No disrespect, but what you or I say is meaningless. What saith the scripture?
The requirement is to believe the gospel.
The next thing that is required is holiness.
Hebrews 12:14-15
[14] Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: [15] Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled
You should start looking diligently lest you fail my friend.
The requirement is to believe the gospel.
The next thing that is required is holiness.
Hebrews 12:14-15
[14] Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: [15] Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled
You should start looking diligently lest you fail my friend.
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Does OSAS affect the ears?
I said I was following his example!
As we have the apostles as examples as well.
Philippians 3:17-18
[17] Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. [18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ
I said I was following his example!
As we have the apostles as examples as well.
Philippians 3:17-18
[17] Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. [18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ
How many times do I have to say it before you can actually know what the argument is?????
It's not by your power that you believe. It's by the power of the faith that God gives that you trust in Christ and are saved.
Why do you keep changing the above argument into 'by YOUR power'?????? I have not said this. You keep changing it to that.
It's not by your power that you believe. It's by the power of the faith that God gives that you trust in Christ and are saved.
Why do you keep changing the above argument into 'by YOUR power'?????? I have not said this. You keep changing it to that.
Oh.
I guess you responded to my quote by accident: https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works-false.192473/post-4283344
I guess you responded to my quote by accident: https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works-false.192473/post-4283344
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Why do you stand against co-operating with God in His desire to save us, when our co-operation is something He desires?
I ask because I really do not understand how or why our co-operation is made into a bad thing.
Nobody that I know of says we save ourselves. We receive/accept the gift of grace through faith.
I ask because I really do not understand how or why our co-operation is made into a bad thing.
Nobody that I know of says we save ourselves. We receive/accept the gift of grace through faith.
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As I showed you, that's not what Paul is saying in Romans. Not even close. Did you read that post?
You're focused on the definition of work, not on the definition of what you do that doesn't justify and on the definition of what you 'do' that does justify.
You'll have to open up a bit and at least understand the argument. That's how learning occurs. You won't learn anything by not allowing yourself to examine other arguments as if you had no argument of your own to get in the way. No offense, but Calvinists, especially, don't allow themselves to consider arguments outside of their own, let alone agree with them.
You're focused on the definition of work, not on the definition of what you do that doesn't justify and on the definition of what you 'do' that does justify.
You'll have to open up a bit and at least understand the argument. That's how learning occurs. You won't learn anything by not allowing yourself to examine other arguments as if you had no argument of your own to get in the way. No offense, but Calvinists, especially, don't allow themselves to consider arguments outside of their own, let alone agree with them.
A work OF THE LAW, not ANY work.
That is what he is addressing.
The Jews thought a person is justified by keeping the law.
He's telling them, no, a person is justified by believing God through faith--just as Abraham was justified.
Both represent something you do.
One thing you do does not justify, while the other thing you do does.
This is not about doing something to be justified vs. not doing anything at all to be justified, requiring the work of believing to be done by God or else we'd be guilty of serving a works gospel.
I know this is not your doctrine. I know this is a doctrine of the church that you have been taught. The same church that has taught us that you give all your tithe away. Oblivious to the plain words of scripture that say you eat your own tithe two out of every three years and only give it all away in the 3rd. Yet, we continue in this thinking that the church surely has to be right about this matter and all matters of the faith and can not be wrong.
That is what he is addressing.
The Jews thought a person is justified by keeping the law.
He's telling them, no, a person is justified by believing God through faith--just as Abraham was justified.
Both represent something you do.
One thing you do does not justify, while the other thing you do does.
This is not about doing something to be justified vs. not doing anything at all to be justified, requiring the work of believing to be done by God or else we'd be guilty of serving a works gospel.
I know this is not your doctrine. I know this is a doctrine of the church that you have been taught. The same church that has taught us that you give all your tithe away. Oblivious to the plain words of scripture that say you eat your own tithe two out of every three years and only give it all away in the 3rd. Yet, we continue in this thinking that the church surely has to be right about this matter and all matters of the faith and can not be wrong.
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