Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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You can have all of the above, but John says:
John 15:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Notice Jesus says "EVERY BRANCH IN ME" will be taken away if they do not produce fruit. What this means is you can claim your saved and trust and have faith all you want, but if all that power does not produce fruit, you will not be with Jesus in EL. Sorry.
John 15:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Notice Jesus says "EVERY BRANCH IN ME" will be taken away if they do not produce fruit. What this means is you can claim your saved and trust and have faith all you want, but if all that power does not produce fruit, you will not be with Jesus in EL. Sorry.
All scripture is indeed given by God which is why He cannot be confused with what His gospel message is supposed to be.
You are referring to Matthew 7:16? Is the interpretation you have of it consistent with the immediate context? The context is of false teachers who are likened to bad trees. What is the fruit of a teacher? His teachings. False prophets are clearly identified as unbelievers, those who are not saved. Christ was not asserting a works-based salvation "gospel", or else why did the apostle John bother recording Christ's words that clearly contradict the idea you are asserting to be true?
This secular minister is an example of what all too often happens in a church, but it has nothing to do with any idea of a saint gaining or losing their salvation based on any works.
You are referring to Matthew 7:16? Is the interpretation you have of it consistent with the immediate context? The context is of false teachers who are likened to bad trees. What is the fruit of a teacher? His teachings. False prophets are clearly identified as unbelievers, those who are not saved. Christ was not asserting a works-based salvation "gospel", or else why did the apostle John bother recording Christ's words that clearly contradict the idea you are asserting to be true?
This secular minister is an example of what all too often happens in a church, but it has nothing to do with any idea of a saint gaining or losing their salvation based on any works.
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So once you are saved, you are always saved. We get that, that is what OSAS means. But there are many scriptures that tell us that OSAS is not true and the scriptures you give tell me that Christ will always be true to his word, but says nothing about what our obligation is. Our obligation cannot be to just sit by and let Jesus carry us into heaven without lifting a finger.
The scriptures tell us that we have to be active in the work of the Lord. If we are not he will not save us in his kingdom. If we are, he will save us in his kingdom. Are we going to be sheep and follow him and be active in the work of the Lord, or are we going to be goats and be continuously rebellious and not be active in the work of the Lord.
As John 15:2 says "every branch IN ME that does not produce fruit, will be taken away. So be a sheep and produce fruit (be active in the work of the Lord) or lose your EL.[/QUOTE]
Prolly something to do with "Cainology" 
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I do not have all the info you are asking for but what we do know is after the fall in the garden God made for Adam and Eve garments made from animal skins, bible scholars say that that was the first sacrifice and shedding of blood for forgiveness of sins.
Since Cain and Able were Adam and Eves first children its not a stretch to say that they were given a lesson on how to receive forgiveness of sin. Frankly it is our Sovereign God's decision to reject Cain's offering but the bible does not tell us what Cain did not know or what he did know. However we can take a lesson from Cain about what is not an acceptable offering to God.
Genesis3:21
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.
Genesis3:15
13Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring a and hers;
he will crush b your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
Since Cain and Able were Adam and Eves first children its not a stretch to say that they were given a lesson on how to receive forgiveness of sin. Frankly it is our Sovereign God's decision to reject Cain's offering but the bible does not tell us what Cain did not know or what he did know. However we can take a lesson from Cain about what is not an acceptable offering to God.
Genesis3:21
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.
Genesis3:15
13Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring a and hers;
he will crush b your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
