Not By Works
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Which passage ( ^ ) is immediately preceded by, verses 9-11 :
"9 Now you are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you; but if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. 10 But if Christ is in you, the body is indeed dead on account of sin, but the Spirit is life on account of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of the One having raised up Jesus out from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised up Christ Jesus out from the dead also will give life [G2227 - zóopoieó - ; 'vivify ("animate")'...'particularly used of God infusing His life in the believer'... 'empower with divine life'... 'to (re-)vitalize'] to your mortal bodies [THE ONES WE STILL LIVE IN], on account of [/by means of] His Spirit dwelling in you." [by means of His Spirit--not by means of our "self-effort" to do so--let us not be found "denying the POWER thereof" by the things we assert which are not in accord with what Scripture tells us
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"9 Now you are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you; but if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. 10 But if Christ is in you, the body is indeed dead on account of sin, but the Spirit is life on account of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of the One having raised up Jesus out from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised up Christ Jesus out from the dead also will give life [G2227 - zóopoieó - ; 'vivify ("animate")'...'particularly used of God infusing His life in the believer'... 'empower with divine life'... 'to (re-)vitalize'] to your mortal bodies [THE ONES WE STILL LIVE IN], on account of [/by means of] His Spirit dwelling in you." [by means of His Spirit--not by means of our "self-effort" to do so--let us not be found "denying the POWER thereof" by the things we assert which are not in accord with what Scripture tells us
]
Baptism is water, a symbolic death and resurrection. It is a type of beginning, an induction into something.
Eph 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called--
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Matt 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 10:47-48
Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 19:5-6
On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
1 Cor 1:16
Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.
Water baptism is part of our testimony and faith. How we interpret it is personal, different groups put different emphasis on it, but I do not see this as a salvation issue, rather a testimony issue to God and the world of our faith. It is one thing Jesus commanded us to do. I do not see there is more than this to say, scripture is clear.
Eph 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called--
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Matt 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 10:47-48
Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 19:5-6
On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
1 Cor 1:16
Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.
Water baptism is part of our testimony and faith. How we interpret it is personal, different groups put different emphasis on it, but I do not see this as a salvation issue, rather a testimony issue to God and the world of our faith. It is one thing Jesus commanded us to do. I do not see there is more than this to say, scripture is clear.
Sure [don't fail to also connect vv.15-16 ], but what you seem to have MISSED in my post, is that this has to do with "YOUR [/OUR] MORTAL BODIES [the ones we STILL LIVE IN!]" (our spirits are indwelt permanently by His Spirit, but our mortal bodies need HIS "animation"/"power of His divine LIFE"... but this passage isn't saying, "OR ELSE you will LOSE your ETERNAL LIFE [that isn't really ETERNAL AFTER ALL--I lied!--SEE 1Jn5:9-13!!]!!!" No.)
], but what you seem to have MISSED in my post, is that this has to do with "YOUR [/OUR] MORTAL BODIES [the ones we STILL LIVE IN!]" (our spirits are indwelt permanently by His Spirit, but our mortal bodies need HIS "animation"/"power of His divine LIFE"... but this passage isn't saying, "OR ELSE you will LOSE your ETERNAL LIFE [that isn't really ETERNAL AFTER ALL--I lied!--SEE 1Jn5:9-13!!]!!!" No.)
E
Sure [don't fail to also connect vv.15-16 ], but what you seem to have MISSED in my post, is that this has to do with "YOUR [/OUR] MORTAL BODIES [the ones we STILL LIVE IN!]" (our spirits are indwelt permanently by His Spirit, but our mortal bodies need HIS "animation"/"power of His divine LIFE"... but this passage isn't saying, "OR ELSE you will LOSE your ETERNAL LIFE [that isn't really ETERNAL AFTER ALL--I lied!--SEE 1Jn5:9-13!!]!!!" No.)
], but what you seem to have MISSED in my post, is that this has to do with "YOUR [/OUR] MORTAL BODIES [the ones we STILL LIVE IN!]" (our spirits are indwelt permanently by His Spirit, but our mortal bodies need HIS "animation"/"power of His divine LIFE"... but this passage isn't saying, "OR ELSE you will LOSE your ETERNAL LIFE [that isn't really ETERNAL AFTER ALL--I lied!--SEE 1Jn5:9-13!!]!!!" No.)
The SOUL that sins will die. It is the SOUL that makes the CHOICE whether to live by the Spirit or by the Flesh. If your SOUL lives according to the Flesh, your SOUL will go to hell. If your SOUL is led by the Spirit to put to death the MISDEEDS of the BODY, you (your SOUL) will live.
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I can read your MOTIVES.
However, You are not taking into account the GREEK Verb Tenses that are the words that we do have the exact meaning for in ENGLISH.
And Greek PRESENT TENSE is One of those Verbs.
QUOTE:
1. PRESENT TENSE
In English, we know that the present tense describes something happening right now. It informs us of the time when an action takes place.
In Greek, however, the present tense primarily tells us the type of action. The Greek present tense indicates continued action, something that happens continually or repeatedly, or something that is in the process of happening. If you say, for instance, "The sun is rising," you are talking about a process happening over a period of time, not an instantaneous event. The Greeks use the present tense to express this kind of continued action.
In contrast, Greek uses the aorist tense to show simple action. An aorist verb simply tells you that something happened, with no indication of how long it took. Aorist is like a snapshot; present is like a video.
. . .
https://www.ezraproject.com/greek-tenses-explained :END QUOTE
In GREEK we have SIX primary verb tenses, in ENGLISH we have only THREE primary verb tenses. You will find that in 1 John, JOHN is VERY FOND of the GREEK PRESENT TENSE verbs, as most of them are in the Gk. Present Tense. It is TOTALLY NOT LIKE OUR Present Tense. In fact we do not have that TENSE in our Language. So we had to make do, even though it does not convey the exact meaning. Which makes ENGLISH a POOR Language to translate the Bible Into.
1 John 3:9 (NIV)
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
Sinning is in the GREEK PRESENT TENSE: It NEVER Implies PERFECTION. It IMPLIES a LIFESTYLE of Striving to Do that VERB. In other words your life is characterized by striving not to SIN. Yes, we will stumble into sin, but we get right up, GO to 1 John 1:9, and CONFESS it and get right back to striving Not to sin. That Confess IT as Sin, is an LIFESTYLE, of confessing each new sin you find in your life. And it too is in the GREEK PRESENT TENSE.
I guess that now I have Burst your Bubble, if you were starting to think you do not sin anymore. YOU TOO HAVE A SIN NATURE THAT YOU WILL NOT GET RID OF UNTIL YOU GET THAT GLORIFIED BODY. Like I have heard Dr. John MacArthur say an number of times, "A Christian is not sinless, but as they mature, they will sin less, and less, and less."
There are sins of Committion, sins of Omittion, sins of Thoughts, sins of Quick Temper, sins of Anger, sins of NOT paying attention like not paying attention to EVERY ORDINANCE OF MAN, etc., etc. YES, it is a sin to exceed the Posted Speed limit by 1 mph.
1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. [.That is President Donald Trump if you are an American.]
Better get back to studying what all GOD considers SIN. May this verse will help.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good, And does not sin.
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You just said that "it's a one time occurrence that lasts forever" - which means in plain English you believe they stay saved. You just don't like the words "stay saved" because you associate it with beliefs you do not hold. But if this one time occurrence you speak of does last forever then that person stays saved. That is simple English!
I agree baptized in greek can be the ceremonial dipping in water, or being immersed into something.
And in coming to faith, we are immersed in the Holy Spirit and into the death and resurrection of Christ.
I have not said it is one or the other but actually both, because the word implies both.
It seems to you, you must exclude water baptism, though clearly it is embedded in Christ and His commands, as well as the practice of the apostles and church.
baptisthēsesthe - means dip, submerge ceremonially acts 1:5
Thayer's Definition
In your sense you are simply wrong.
And in coming to faith, we are immersed in the Holy Spirit and into the death and resurrection of Christ.
I have not said it is one or the other but actually both, because the word implies both.
It seems to you, you must exclude water baptism, though clearly it is embedded in Christ and His commands, as well as the practice of the apostles and church.
baptisthēsesthe - means dip, submerge ceremonially acts 1:5
Thayer's Definition
- to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
- to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
- to overwhelm
In your sense you are simply wrong.
I can read your MOTIVES.
However, You are not taking into account the GREEK Verb Tenses that are the words that we do have the exact meaning for in ENGLISH.
And Greek PRESENT TENSE is One of those Verbs.
QUOTE:
1. PRESENT TENSE
In English, we know that the present tense describes something happening right now. It informs us of the time when an action takes place.
In Greek, however, the present tense primarily tells us the type of action. The Greek present tense indicates continued action, something that happens continually or repeatedly, or something that is in the process of happening. If you say, for instance, "The sun is rising," you are talking about a process happening over a period of time, not an instantaneous event. The Greeks use the present tense to express this kind of continued action.
In contrast, Greek uses the aorist tense to show simple action. An aorist verb simply tells you that something happened, with no indication of how long it took. Aorist is like a snapshot; present is like a video.
. . .
https://www.ezraproject.com/greek-tenses-explained :END QUOTE
In GREEK we have SIX primary verb tenses, in ENGLISH we have only THREE primary verb tenses. You will find that in 1 John, JOHN is VERY FOND of the GREEK PRESENT TENSE verbs, as most of them are in the Gk. Present Tense. It is TOTALLY NOT LIKE OUR Present Tense. In fact we do not have that TENSE in our Language. So we had to make do, even though it does not convey the exact meaning. Which makes ENGLISH a POOR Language to translate the Bible Into.
1 John 3:9 (NIV)
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
Sinning is in the GREEK PRESENT TENSE: It NEVER Implies PERFECTION. It IMPLIES a LIFESTYLE of Striving to Do that VERB. In other words your life is characterized by striving not to SIN. Yes, we will stumble into sin, but we get right up, GO to 1 John 1:9, and CONFESS it and get right back to striving Not to sin. That Confess IT as Sin, is an LIFESTYLE, of confessing each new sin you find in your life. And it too is in the GREEK PRESENT TENSE.
I guess that now I have Burst your Bubble, if you were starting to think you do not sin anymore. YOU TOO HAVE A SIN NATURE THAT YOU WILL NOT GET RID OF UNTIL YOU GET THAT GLORIFIED BODY. Like I have heard Dr. John MacArthur say an number of times, "A Christian is not sinless, but as they mature, they will sin less, and less, and less."
There are sins of Committion, sins of Omittion, sins of Thoughts, sins of Quick Temper, sins of Anger, sins of NOT paying attention like not paying attention to EVERY ORDINANCE OF MAN, etc., etc. YES, it is a sin to exceed the Posted Speed limit by 1 mph.
1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. [.That is President Donald Trump if you are an American.]
You are SINNING!
Better get back to studying what all GOD considers SIN. May this verse will help.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good, And does not sin.
However, You are not taking into account the GREEK Verb Tenses that are the words that we do have the exact meaning for in ENGLISH.
And Greek PRESENT TENSE is One of those Verbs.
QUOTE:
1. PRESENT TENSE
In English, we know that the present tense describes something happening right now. It informs us of the time when an action takes place.
In Greek, however, the present tense primarily tells us the type of action. The Greek present tense indicates continued action, something that happens continually or repeatedly, or something that is in the process of happening. If you say, for instance, "The sun is rising," you are talking about a process happening over a period of time, not an instantaneous event. The Greeks use the present tense to express this kind of continued action.
In contrast, Greek uses the aorist tense to show simple action. An aorist verb simply tells you that something happened, with no indication of how long it took. Aorist is like a snapshot; present is like a video.
. . .
https://www.ezraproject.com/greek-tenses-explained :END QUOTE
In GREEK we have SIX primary verb tenses, in ENGLISH we have only THREE primary verb tenses. You will find that in 1 John, JOHN is VERY FOND of the GREEK PRESENT TENSE verbs, as most of them are in the Gk. Present Tense. It is TOTALLY NOT LIKE OUR Present Tense. In fact we do not have that TENSE in our Language. So we had to make do, even though it does not convey the exact meaning. Which makes ENGLISH a POOR Language to translate the Bible Into.
1 John 3:9 (NIV)
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
Sinning is in the GREEK PRESENT TENSE: It NEVER Implies PERFECTION. It IMPLIES a LIFESTYLE of Striving to Do that VERB. In other words your life is characterized by striving not to SIN. Yes, we will stumble into sin, but we get right up, GO to 1 John 1:9, and CONFESS it and get right back to striving Not to sin. That Confess IT as Sin, is an LIFESTYLE, of confessing each new sin you find in your life. And it too is in the GREEK PRESENT TENSE.
I guess that now I have Burst your Bubble, if you were starting to think you do not sin anymore. YOU TOO HAVE A SIN NATURE THAT YOU WILL NOT GET RID OF UNTIL YOU GET THAT GLORIFIED BODY. Like I have heard Dr. John MacArthur say an number of times, "A Christian is not sinless, but as they mature, they will sin less, and less, and less."
There are sins of Committion, sins of Omittion, sins of Thoughts, sins of Quick Temper, sins of Anger, sins of NOT paying attention like not paying attention to EVERY ORDINANCE OF MAN, etc., etc. YES, it is a sin to exceed the Posted Speed limit by 1 mph.
1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. [.That is President Donald Trump if you are an American.]
Better get back to studying what all GOD considers SIN. May this verse will help.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good, And does not sin.
Is it now a sin for you to post further posts because I have told you to stop?
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