Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
No you did not. What you did was made the comment, " It’s regarding people who have been taught about Jesus and refuse to believe in Him." without proving it within the context of the passage.


It is not just a people that have been taught about Jesus and refuse to believe in Him. Hebrews 10:26 is about those who are experiencing salvation and then they throw it all away, Sinning willfully, trodding underfoot the Son of GOD, doing despite unto the Spirit of Grace which they have been Given.

Starting in verse 10. Here look please.

By the which will we are sanctified (Hebrews 9:12-14 A purged conscience, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh (vs 9:13) from dead works, a purged conscience, the inner man renewed (vs 9:14), the taking away of sin (10:4) to serve the Living God) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins, : But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof (to this perfectedness) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant (perfectedness of them that are sanctified) that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Heb 10:4-16 KJV)

WE are sanctified. For by one offering he hath PERFECTED them (the WE) that are SANCTIFIED. How are WE that are SANCTIFIED PERFECTED? To this (whereof) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to US. HE saith, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

Having therefore, brethren (the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED), boldness into the entrance into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) , through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God (the Body of Christ, the Temple of God through the veil that is His flesh); Let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (the taking away of sin), and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised. And let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of OURSELVES (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we ( OURSELVES, the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) are sinning wilfully (Not a single act but a state of being, who we are) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth ( A purged conscience, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh (vs 9:13) from dead works, a purged conscience, the inner man renewed (vs 9:14), the taking away of sin (10:4) to serve the Living God, Perfected, Gods Laws in the Heart and mind through Christ), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (which the been given)
(Heb 10:19-29)
I didn’t read past your first four words so don’t bother with long, conflated posts. Now answer my question: what is it about John 3:16 that you don’t like? Obviously it’s something because you’re trying to devalue Jesus’ words with your works salvation.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
what is it about John 3:16 that you don’t like? Obviously it’s something because you’re trying to devalue Jesus’ words with your works salvation.
As I said. I love John and all the Spirit has given him. Please stop deflecting and prove the posts to which you have been responding to wrong or not and then we can move to John.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,748
6,332
113
As I said. I love John and all the Spirit has given him. Please stop deflecting and prove the posts to which you have been responding to wrong or not and then we can move to John.

have you moved past thinking that one has to keep the Sabbath to be saved? I hope you have.....
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
have you moved past thinking that one has to keep the Sabbath to be saved? I hope you have.....
Never thought one must keep the Sabbath to be saved.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:8-10 KJV)
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
As I said. I love John and all the Spirit has given him. Please stop deflecting and prove the posts to which you have been responding to wrong or not and then we can move to John.
Sorry pussycat, you don’t make the rules here. I answered your question as have many other people but you refuse to listen. I’m not playing your manipulation games. Your refusal to respond to John 3:16 proves you’re inept at seeing the fullness of God’s grace. Thanks for playing.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
Sorry pussycat, you don’t make the rules here. I answered your question as have many other people but you refuse to listen. I’m not playing your manipulation games. Your refusal to respond to John 3:16 proves you’re inept at seeing the fullness of God’s grace. Thanks for playing.
Nice deflection and I am not playing.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
No you did not. What you did was made the comment, " It’s regarding people who have been taught about Jesus and refuse to believe in Him." without proving it within the context of the passage.


It is not just a people that have been taught about Jesus and refuse to believe in Him. Hebrews 10:26 is about those who are experiencing salvation and then they throw it all away, Sinning willfully, trodding underfoot the Son of GOD, doing despite unto the Spirit of Grace which they have been Given.

Starting in verse 10. Here look please.

By the which will we are sanctified (Hebrews 9:12-14 A purged conscience, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh (vs 9:13) from dead works, a purged conscience, the inner man renewed (vs 9:14), the taking away of sin (10:4) to serve the Living God) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins, : But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof (to this perfectedness) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant (perfectedness of them that are sanctified) that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Heb 10:4-16 KJV)

WE are sanctified. For by one offering he hath PERFECTED them (the WE) that are SANCTIFIED. How are WE that are SANCTIFIED PERFECTED? To this (whereof) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to US. HE saith, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

Having therefore, brethren (the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED), boldness into the entrance into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) , through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God (the Body of Christ, the Temple of God through the veil that is His flesh); Let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (the taking away of sin), and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised. And let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of OURSELVES (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we ( OURSELVES, the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) are sinning wilfully (Not a single act but a state of being, who we are) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth ( A purged conscience, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh (vs 9:13) from dead works, a purged conscience, the inner man renewed (vs 9:14), the taking away of sin (10:4) to serve the Living God, Perfected, Gods Laws in the Heart and mind through Christ), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (which the been given)
(Heb 10:19-29)
You did not answer my question
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,748
6,332
113
Never thought one must keep the Sabbath to be saved.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:8-10 KJV)
" it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath"

" how can we not keep the Law which God established "


would you care to take a guess at who wrote these words?

*hint- you know that person very, very well.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
" it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath"

" how can we not keep the Law which God established "


would you care to take a guess at who wrote these words?

*hint- you know that person very, very well.
None of which says...
one has to keep the Sabbath to be saved? .
So you think one can continue in sin?

If God's Laws, His Word through Christ have been placed in the heart, we being HIS Workmanship.
How can we not live in the way in which had before ordain that we should walk?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
No you did not. What you did was made the comment, " It’s regarding people who have been taught about Jesus and refuse to believe in Him." without proving it within the context of the passage.


It is not just a people that have been taught about Jesus and refuse to believe in Him. Hebrews 10:26 is about those who are experiencing salvation and then they throw it all away, Sinning willfully, trodding underfoot the Son of GOD, doing despite unto the Spirit of Grace which they have been Given.

Starting in verse 10. Here look please.

By the which will we are sanctified (Hebrews 9:12-14 A purged conscience, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh (vs 9:13) from dead works, a purged conscience, the inner man renewed (vs 9:14), the taking away of sin (10:4) to serve the Living God) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins, : But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof (to this perfectedness) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant (perfectedness of them that are sanctified) that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Heb 10:4-16 KJV)

WE are sanctified. For by one offering he hath PERFECTED them (the WE) that are SANCTIFIED. How are WE that are SANCTIFIED PERFECTED? To this (whereof) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to US. HE saith, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

Having therefore, brethren (the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED), boldness into the entrance into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) , through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God (the Body of Christ, the Temple of God through the veil that is His flesh); Let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (the taking away of sin), and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised. And let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of OURSELVES (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we ( OURSELVES, the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) are sinning wilfully (Not a single act but a state of being, who we are) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth ( A purged conscience, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh (vs 9:13) from dead works, a purged conscience, the inner man renewed (vs 9:14), the taking away of sin (10:4) to serve the Living God, Perfected, Gods Laws in the Heart and mind through Christ), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (which the been given)
(Heb 10:19-29)
Spoken to the saved They are believers

Verse 30, the Lord will Judge His people.

Chapter showing a clear contrast between the Old Testament sacrifices and the sacrifice of Christ.

Old testament sacrifices were weak could not take away sins and they were a perpetual sacrifice ... Jesus is once for all, can take away sins and cleanse.

The latter part of this chapter is about how God deals with His own people, how does He deal with His own people through chastening/scourging as He deal with sons.

If we sin willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sins.

Two types of sins those done in ignorance and those that are done willfully, presumptuously, with full knowledge. This is clearly seen in the Old Testament.

No offering for the presumptuously committed sins.

However those sins were still dealt with...NOT .....NOT with loss of salvation but with chastening

Verse 30 makes it clear...

30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[b]

God warns He will judge and we will receive recompense on this earth. Salvation is everlasting!!

28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Pay attention here......

There remained no more sacrifice for sin… meaning Jesus paid for all sin.
But is we do sin willfully God will deal with us in this life time.
As I stated loss of salvation is never, ever in view.


You cannot use these verses again your argument is dead.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
None of which says...
So you think one can continue in sin?

If God's Laws, His Word through Christ have been placed in the heart, we being HIS Workmanship.
How can we not live in the way in which had before ordain that we should walk?
Let see is you respond to me .. I will be waiting.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
The elders and Jesus got good reports?

I never got one.
There was always must try harder must work harder.

It's a shame that an awful lot Christians say that as well.
Their good report was that they didn't turn back but continued in faith in the promises right to the end:

13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. - Hebrews 11:13-16

That's you, right?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
None of which says...
So you think one can continue in sin?

If God's Laws, His Word through Christ have been placed in the heart, we being HIS Workmanship.
How can we not live in the way in which had before ordain that we should walk?
Who is talking about this... no one except you it seems.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
Their good report was that they didn't turn back but continued in faith in the promises right to the end:

13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. - Hebrews 11:13-16

That's you, right?
What’s me?
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
You are injecting your own version by insisting that Jews are also excused from the Law of Moses. It is not in scripture.
Here it is:

Galatians 2:15-16,19-21

15We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in d Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”


As you can plainly see, Jews are also dead to the law.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
You're still living by faith, right?
You aren't thinking about where you came from and wanting to go back, right?
Then you have a good report along with the faithful in Hebrews 11.

13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. - Hebrews 11:13-16

Hey, if Samson can be commended for his faith then so can you and I, lol.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
Here it is:

Galatians 2:15-16,19-21

15We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in d Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

As you can plainly see, Jews are also dead to the law.
You don't get it do you? Paul was commissioned by Peter, James and John to preach the gospel of the uncircumcision, he had no authority to tell the Jews anything about being dead to the Law.

To put it in another way, imagine you are a Jew during the period in Acts who believes in Jesus. Will you go away with the idea that you are dead to the Law?

What will James and the elders say to you if you tell them you are not going to circumcise your children anymore because you heard Paul saying to the gentiles in Galatians that he is dead to the law?