Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

And you love saying the absurd as long it’s new and different. You hate being corrected.

Eternal Security and OSAS are the same. Just agree and you won’t find people arguing with you for a change:

However you think of me is your business. Not really mine. That’s one benefit of knowing justification just because I’m redeemed. His action, not mine.

Dottie, I’m sorry you were hurt, but you needed to be stopped with telling JR that she was what is portrayed in that scripture. That is not what the Lord would speak over her.

So put it off yourself, let it go and keep on.

 

[preacher4truth]

Don’t understand the last line preacher.

I was told that since I agreed with a denier of OSAS on something they said, or gave the person(s) a like, that means I too don't believe in eternal security.

Of course I do affirm and believe in eternal security (OSAS).

So logically, if I agree with something you say it would also mean this.

Keep in mind I've never agreed with any post that denies the eternal security of a believer.

 

[biker]

You personal testimony only serves as confirmation bias.... better to learn Truth from the scripture. ... if you have eyes to see and ears to hear?

Since God is my witness, why would I lie to make you or someone else happy?

 

[DorothyMae]

However you think of me is your business. Not really mine. That’s one benefit of knowing justification just because I’m redeemed. His action, not mine.

Dottie, I’m sorry you were hurt, but you needed to be stopped with telling JR that she was what is portrayed in that scripture. That is not what the Lord would speak over her.

So put it off yourself, let it go and keep on.

I stopped a long time ago Stone. Get over it. I wasn’t hurt as much as disgusted. Move on.

What I sense with her I’m not discussing with you but it is often confirmed. So stop trying to go there.

 

[jackrosie]

However you think of me is your business. Not really mine. That’s one benefit of knowing justification just because I’m redeemed. His action, not mine.

Dottie, I’m sorry you were hurt, but you needed to be stopped with telling JR that she was what is portrayed in that scripture. That is not what the Lord would speak over her.

So put it off yourself, let it go and keep on.

But DorothyMae,is perfect,didn’t you know...I know exactly what she meant and who she was talking to in that scripture....”ME”....I just let it go....I have a tough skin...she just tried to cover it up.

 

[stonesoffire]

I was told that since I agreed with a denier of OSAS on something they said, or gave the person(s) a like, that means I too don't believe in eternal security.

Of course I do affirm and believe in eternal security (OSAS).

So logically, if I agree with something you say it would also mean this.

Keep in mind I've never agreed with any post that denies the eternal security of a believer.

Are you offended by what was said to you?

That should speak to you as doubt somewhere in what you believe. True? So address that in yourself and keep posting. Haha...

 

[stonesoffire]

I stopped a long time ago Stone. Get over it. I wasn’t hurt as much as disgusted. Move on.

What I sense with her I’m not discussing with you but it is often confirmed. So stop trying to go there.

Im not the one writing bitterly Dot.

 

[biker]

The thing is, as a born-again believer you wouldn't want to sin anymore so therefore a born-again believer would not become a mass murderer.

When I was 8 to 18 I did not want to disappoint God. But I took an incident that happened and felt God was at fault. And it drove me as far away as I thought I could go. Today, just like when I was 8 to 18, I don't want to disappoint God. So I agree with your post.

 

[mailmandan]

Drop the “ever” because that was NOT the question. They sinned YESTERDAY and refuse to confess. Are they a true believer or is one confession all the confessions and further sins are ignored?

I already explained this. Who said anything about future sins being ignored?

 

[Fastfredy0]

My Question:
Definition of work: activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

Given: You believe that you of your own free will must believe (mental effort) to be saved (to achieve a result)
Question: How do you explain that you do NO WORK in order to be saved??????

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified [that is, acquitted from the guilt of his sins] by works [those things he did that were good], he has something to boast about, but not before God.
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.

Thank you for responding ...

I am not going to change you mind, but I will try to see from my point of view.

First, I see where you are coming from I think. I think you believe faith is not a work because God say FAITH is not a work of man. To this we are both agreed. The next question is, "Why does God say Abraham's Faith is not a work of Abraham".

My View to "Why does God say Abraham's Faith is not a work of Abraham".
....I believe faith is not Abraham's work because the faith Abraham has came from God changing Abraham's heart so now Abraham desire/willed to believe as a result. NOTE: This does not conflict with the dictionary definition of believe because Abraham's faith was an effect and God was the cause of said effect.

Your View, as I see it, as to "Why does God say Abraham's Faith is not a work of Abraham".
First, you believe God gave the ability to Abraham to chose to believe or not. Then Abraham did the choosing to believe on his own.
Now, as I see it, you says this is not a work because the bible says it is not a work. To this statement we both agree. But your explanation still has contradictions.
Contradiction 1: The dictionary definition shows us that if Abraham was the cause of his belief (mental effort per dictionary) he would be saved (to achieve a purpose per dictionary). So you have a contradiction with the meaning of words per the dictionary.
Contradiction 2: Many verses to show did but just give John 1:12-13 which state one is not saved by his own will, but the will of God.

So, as I pointed out before ... there are many verses saying WHAT we must do to be saved, that is believe like you pointed out. But the only verses that tell us WHY WE BELIEVE are verses stating GOD changed our hearts. Which is to say God is the CAUSE and our FAITH is the effect. Phil 1:29, Rom 3:12; 1 Cor 3:12, Eph. 2:8-9; Deuteronomy 29:4, Jeremiah 24:7, Ezekiel 36:26–27, Luke 17:5; John 6:29; John 15:5; Acts 3:16, Rom. 8:7; 1 Corinthians 2;5, 1 Corinthians 12:7; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 6:23, Colossians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:3; 1 Timothy 1:13; Hebrews 12:2 ... getting tired of listing all verses indicating faith causes us to believe comes from God. Probably 20 verses saying it is God's will as to who he chooses to be saved, or wills to be saved ... 40 verses saying we aren't capable of being saved, on and on and on ...

 

[stonesoffire]

But DorothyMae,is perfect,didn’t you know...I know exactly what she meant and who she was talking to in that scripture....”ME”....I just let it go....I have a tough skin...she just tried to cover it up.

Someone weaker in the faith could of been hurt bad.

 

[preacher4truth]

Since God is my witness, why would I lie to make you or someone else happy?

That is integrity my man! I agree with you 100% on that stance!

Fact is some do lie on here to please others. They know what one has said is patently false, but all the same, they chime in and give it likes.

 

[DorothyMae]

I already explained this. Who said anything about future sins being ignored?

If a believer refuses in the future to confess sins he did (past at that point) is he still a true believer? You said no true believer refuses to confess sins the Holy Spirit points out. So I am asking the obvious.

 

[EleventhHour]

Since God is my witness, why would I lie to make you or someone else happy?

Did I state you were lying.... no.

 

[jackrosie]

Someone weaker in the faith could of been hurt bad.

Not me stone...but I agree ,if she had said that to me as a new babe...I know I would have been very hurt.

I’m tuned into DorothyMae now....

 

[dcontroversal]

I think where I find the difficulty is the "favour" part when it is used in the Calvinist sense in that God denies salvation to some and favour to others.

Certainly "grace" is not earned or deserved, if it was it would not be grace.

However, some on here state God forces us to believe and if it is otherwise then it is our work.

So is trusting in Jesus for salvation a work of merit?

It cannot be a work of merit because scripture is clear we cannot earn salvation... but then do we have to go to the extreme as Calvinists do and make it so God forces Himself on people >>>> irresistible grace?

How does one deal with that constant accusation on here by people like @Fastfredy0 that we earned our salvation since we are not Calvinists?

That right there is the exposed fatal flaw of Calvin Klein religionism......it is utter poppycock to say God chose man A for heaven and man B for hell when the bible clearly states it is open to ALL.....Numerous scriptures in context absolutely destroy this evil dogma being peddled by some on this site, a dogma devised by an ex Catholic, then embraced as truth and now peddled.....it is sickening and too he honest, was listed with the other CULTS we covered in seminary!

My bible says Christ is the savior of ALL MEN, especially those that believe.

My bible says, For God so loved the KOSMOS <--whole order of things

My bible says, He paid for the the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.

This in NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM denies the power and or position of God as God. GOD knows who will and who will not and yet HE CALLS MANY with an irrevocable CALL that some REFUSE <--ONE TENANT of Calvin Klein peddler shot down

GOD is under NO obligation to call one that WON'T believe even though it is open to ALL and CALLS MANY with an IRREVOCABLE CALL though only elects a FEW because they CHOSE TO BELIEVE <--Another tenant of Calvin Klein peddlers shut down

GOD would have ALL MEN BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH....

If the LIE PEDDLED by some on this site was valid, then the above verse needs to be updated by GOD....those fools say that GOD PICKS MAN A FOR HEAVEN AND MAN B FOR HELL....that absolutely CANNOT JIVE WITH the above quoted verse.....IF GOD CHOOSES who makes it, then ALL SHOULD MAKE IT, BECAUSE he would HAVE ALL MEN BE SAVED!

AND LAST TIME I CHECKED from front to back the entire bible is about man CHOOSING....AND EVEN JESUS had to take FLESH AND CHOOSE!

 

[biker]

Did I state you were lying.... no.

Then if you believe I am being honest, why would you accuse me of being biased?

 

[preacher4truth]

Are you offended by what was said to you?

That should speak to you as doubt somewhere in what you believe. True? So address that in yourself and keep posting. Haha...

I have no doubts about what I believe concerning eternal security.

 

[DorothyMae]

Im not the one writing bitterly Dot.

Neither am I Stone. Neither am I. Your discernment is way way off. But your accusing tone is still intact. Someone hurt in this area?

 

[DorothyMae]

Someone weaker in the faith could of been hurt bad.

Like when Jesus told his disciples the unpleasant truth. Hurt em. bad, the truth. But God still thinks the truth is best.