Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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I didn't say they contradict.

Their respective teachings are true for different audiences and different time periods.

Its like Moses teachings about animal sacrifices and circumcision were true for Israel during the period of the OT. But its not the truth for this time period.
No....they are not......John taught the same message Paul taught....end of story!
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
Saying the bible contradicts itself, trying to declare we must love the actions of one another, even it they go against the Word of God, twisting anything scriptural just to carry on a conversation, well how sad is that.

I enjoy discussing scripture which builds us up.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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me also.

that is why i don't come here much anymore.

too much abuse and misuse of God's Written Word.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
me also.

that is why i don't come here much anymore.

too much abuse and misuse of God's Written Word.

There is no doubt it is hard to take, however what choice do we have but to keep the message right and refute error.

Every thread has people pushing either "works" a "losable salvation" or "salvation for the select" only.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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me also.

that is why i don't come here much anymore.

too much abuse and misuse of God's Written Word.

🕇

You need to know that Management has warned us that abusiveness will not be Tolerated any more. In fact at least 3 people have been banned for that recently.

However, in all fairness, some of what you call abusiveness, is just being obedient to these kind of verses:

Jude 1:3 (NASB)
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that
you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

That to me means, be Respectful, but do not compromise your beliefs, and tolerance does not include, you have accept their false teachings.

In other words, Agree to Disagree, and walk away from the conversation, and accept that it is HOLY SPIRIT that will or will not Correct their false theology.

It is so TEMPING to try to Pound it INTO HIS HEAD, when that contradicts this verse:

Philippians 4:5 (NKJV)
5 Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.


Instead of THIS:


 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Alright, since you chose this passage from 1 John, let us use it then.

Does verse 7 and 8 sounds like salvation, which you link to being born again/born of God, apart from works?

In fact, if you are willing to read it literally, he made 2 claims there

Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
and
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

That is certainly not saying the same thing as Ephesians 2:9, nor Romans 3:21 to me.

YES IT DOES!

I am talking to wall. Because You cannot understand since you are Kidding yourself, if you think you have been Born Again, in my opinion. You cannot understand Spiritual Truths, until you are REALLY Born Again, which is so frustrating.

There is NO WORKS involved in LOVING the LORD with HIS LOVE HE PUT INTO YOUR HEART, ROM. 5:5. IT JUST COMES OUT OF YOU. HE is not talking about normal human love, it is the LOVE HE had the Holy Spirit Pour INTO OUR HEARTS that is a reference to the Human Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (NASB)
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed";
and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. {It has to have happened inside your Human Spirit first, where you have surrendered out of AGAPE LOVE for HIM, giving HIM complete Control of your life; then and only then is it a confession, when you say to someone else, that JESUS is My Lord. Prior to that it is only Profession, and Not a Confession. Professions are typical WORKS from the Flesh that cannot SAVE, and do not involve the Holy Spirit.}
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Some days I just wonder how can people do that to the word of God.

He too has adopted "a system" and blinded himself to truth.
It is ridiculous and about as biblically inept as one can be to say Paul and John taught different gospels.......The same John that wrote John chapter wrote 1st thru 3rd John and Revelation...there is but ONE GOSPEL of salvation and to say what he said is theologically ignorant......it also sows confusion, makes God out to be inept, corrupts scripture and on and on and on.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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YES IT DOES!

I am talking to wall. Because You cannot understand since you are Kidding yourself, if you think you have been Born Again, in my opinion. You cannot understand Spiritual Truths, until you are REALLY Born Again, which is so frustrating.

There is NO WORKS involved in LOVING the LORD with HIS LOVE HE PUT INTO YOUR HEART, ROM. 5:5. IT JUST COMES OUT OF YOU. HE is not talking about normal human love, it is the LOVE HE had the Holy Spirit Pour INTO OUR HEARTS that is a reference to the Human Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:3 (NASB)
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed";
and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. {It has to have happened inside your Human Spirit first, where you have surrendered out of AGAPE LOVE for HIM, giving HIM complete Control of your life; then and only then is it a confession, when you say to someone else, that JESUS is My Lord. Prior to that it is only Profession, and Not a Confession. Professions are typical WORKS from the Flesh that cannot SAVE, and do not involve the Holy Spirit.}
Are you really saying to love someone is not a work?

Do you know what it took for God to love us in romans 5:8?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Some days I just wonder how can people do that to the word of God.

He too has adopted "a system" and blinded himself to truth.
Actually all of us read scripture thru a lens. Dcon and you are using the covenant theology lens to do so.

But not all recognise that, and thus think they are the only ones with the correct interpretation.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Are you really saying to love someone is not a work?

Do you know what it took for God to love us in romans 5:8?


THAT IS RIGHT!

To love someone From GOD's LOVE that HE poured into our HEARTS IS NOT WORKS. It just flows out of us.

To Love Someone with human LOVE is WORKS.

Do you see You have never been BORN AGAIN, therefore You think Spiritual Truths are just FOOLISHNESS.

In other words if it comes from GOD's FREE GIFT, You do not get to pat yourself on the back.

You should try it sometime.

Romans 5:5-10 (NASB)
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


HERE IS THE SCARY Part:

John 3:3 (NIV)
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Actually all of us read scripture thru a lens. Dcon and you are using the covenant theology lens to do so.

But not all recognise that, and thus think they are the only ones with the correct interpretation.
A lens is important ... but it has to be the correct one. The lens needs to be fitted by the Holy Spirit first.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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THAT IS RIGHT!

To love someone From GOD's LOVE that HE poured into our HEARTS IS NOT WORKS. It just flows out of us.

To Love Someone with human LOVE is WORKS.

Do you see You have never been BORN AGAIN, therefore You think Spiritual Truths are just FOOLISHNESS.

In other words if it comes from GOD's FREE GIFT, You do not get to pat yourself on the back.

You should try it sometime.

Romans 5:5-10 (NASB)
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


HERE IS THE SCARY Part:

John 3:3 (NIV)
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
When God showed his love to us in Romans 5:8, while we were his enemies, he had to sacrifice his only son.

If you can still think that is not a "work", that is amazing.

You mean you will sacrifice you own son for your enemies because God's love just flows out of you? You have really reached the ultimate level if that is true.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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When God showed his love to us in Romans 5:8, while we were his enemies, he had to sacrifice his only son.

If you can still think that is not a "work", that is amazing.

You mean you will sacrifice you own son for your enemies because God's love just flows out of you? You have really reached the ultimate level if that is true.

HE PAID THE PRICE IN FULL, and our DEBT is TOTALLY Paid OFF. HE PAID THE PRICE FOR US, HIS BRIDE. It is called the Bride Price.

Besides what has that do with anything. SALVATION is a TOTALLY FREE GIFT.

1 Corinthians 7:23-24 (NASB)
23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.
24 Brethren, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.

John 4:10 (NCV)
10 Jesus said, If you only knew the free gift of God and who it is that is asking you for water, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.“

Romans 5:15-16 (ASV)
15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.
16 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification.

Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 1:5-6 (NJB)
5 marking us out for himself beforehand, to be adopted sons, through Jesus Christ. Such was his purpose and good pleasure,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, his free gift to us in the Beloved,

Revelation 22:17 (NIV)
17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

Romans 4:4-5 (HCSB)
4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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Are you really saying to love someone is not a work?

Do you know what it took for God to love us in romans 5:8?

Let me know what you think of the thread The Calling Out of the Bride of Christ, IF you can understand it.