NOT EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES WILL BE SAVED

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Dec 19, 2021
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#1
If I were to ask you, “how many people do you know that believe in Jesus Christ?” You could probably begin counting in your head all the people you immediately know. But if I were to ask you, “how many of those people are true believers?”, then this question may not register immediately with you as you’ve probably never thought about there being a difference between a believer and a true believer.

But is there really a difference between one or the other? I mean, isn’t salvation as simple as believing in the Lord Jesus Christ? This is what I was taught for many years. I was never taught to question the act of believing in Jesus Christ, and you were probably never taught that either. What I have learned is that the Bible teaches us that there is in fact a huge difference between those who believe in Jesus Christ from those who truly believe in Jesus Christ.

So where do we begin? How can we put to the test that which we have been taught, whether by the local church, pastor or friend? Well, since “believing” is the word in question here, why not look in the Bible for our answers?

The best way to begin this study, is to look for a verse that plainly states what we have to do to be saved, here is one:

Acts 16:30-31
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Great, we found the first verse which specifically uses the word we wish to study, it’s the word “believe”. Now what? Where do we turn next to find out what this word "believe" means? A dictionary? How about a Christian dictionary? Google? No, none of the above, but why not? Because we're not studying any ordinary book, we are studying the Bible, a book that has come from the very mouth of God (God breathed).

So, the best way to understand a book like no other, is to turn to the same book and use it as our dictionary and as our commentary. After all, who would know better how to define a word than the very author who spoke these words? That author is God.
So, when we look up this word “believe”, we discover that this Greek word, in the scriptures, is “pisteuō” (Don’t worry about pronouncing it), and it's Strong's # G4100.

And when we look up Strong's # G4100 in our concordance, we are able to see every verse in which this word is used.
Why is this important? Because God is the one who defines his own words using the scriptures themselves.
So, for this study, we’ll just look at some select passages that use this word "believe" (pisteuō).

What we’re looking for are answers to some serious questions.

#1. If someone decides to believe. in the Lord Jesus Christ, as Acts 16:31 states, does that mean that they are truly saved?
#2. Is it possible that, “to believe" is a much more complicated word to understand than many think it is?

If the answer to question #1 is, “yes", then that means that everywhere we look in the Bible, where people “believed” in Christ, that they did indeed become truly saved, right? Well, I would like to focus on 2 examples of people who “believed”, to see what the Bible has to say.

John 8:30-33
As he spake these words, many believed (pisteuō) on him. 31 Then said Jesus TO THOSE JEWS which believed (pisteuō) on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

The Bible clearly tells us that there were Jews who "believed" on him. This therefore guaranteed their salvation, or did it?

John 8:37-44
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

What we can see from this passage is that even though there were many Jews which believed on Christ, that it was these same Jews who sought to kill him. Not only did they desire to kill Christ, but Christ revealed to them their true spiritual condition in verse 44.

Now wait a minute...... did not these Jews believe in Christ? The passage assures twice us that they did, and this is the same exact word “believeused in Acts 16:31. These Jews did just that, they believed in Christ, yet there was no spiritual change in their lives as there was in others who we are told in the scriptures, also believed.

Acts 5:14
And believers (pisteuō) were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.

By now you should be noticing some inconsistencies with the word “believe”, some believed and were truly saved, and some believed and did not become saved. Already we can see that this word “believeis not as plain a word as you may have been taught. Let’s take a look at another passage.

Acts 8:12-13
But when they believed (pisteuō) Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed (pisteuō) also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Here is another example of a group of people who we are told that believed along with another man named Simon, who we are also told that he likewise believed and was baptized. This brings to mind another verse which talks about salvation.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

This man Simon did both of these things, yet we notice that there is a difference between his spiritual condition and those who also believed the preaching of Philip.

Acts 8:17-23
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Let’s recap, here we have a group of people who believed, and we also have a man named Simon who also believed. They both did the exact same thing, yet the group of people who believed, received the Holy Ghost, and Simon did not. As a matter of fact, we are told of the spiritual condition of Simon after he believed and was baptized, and it was that he was still in the bond of iniquity, meaning, he was still in his sins and not truly saved. Simon’s decision to believe had no effect on his spiritual condition.

So, we have gone over enough biblical evidence for now, to demonstrate that to believe is a much more complicated word to understand than most (probably all) churches teach it to be. But when we let the Bible define words for us, we get an entirely different story than that which is commonly taught.

So, to answer our previous questions:

#1. If someone decides to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, as Acts 16:31 states, does that mean that they are truly saved? The answer is, absolutely not.
#2. Is it possible that, to believe is a much more complicated word to understand that many think it is? The answer is, absolutely.

Most people have fallen for a do-it-yourself gospel in which you have been taught that anyone and everyone can decide, of their own will, to believe on Jesus Christ and so be saved. But as we saw, something in the puzzle of this doctrine is missing, because as the scriptures show, not everyone who believes, is truly saved.

Lord willing, as this discussion progresses, we will get into understanding the key to truly believing, as described in the Bible.

John 4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#2
If I were to ask you, “how many people do you know that believe in Jesus Christ?
I know of one in the real world. Yeah . . . just one, and having been in the Grocery industry for over 15 years, I've come to know hundreds of thousands.

Here, at this site, however, I could say maybe about four or five.

If a person doesn't understand Circumcision of the Heart, "you're" hanging by the skin of your teeth. I'd get it figured out pronto.
 
Dec 19, 2021
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#3
I know of one in the real world. Yeah . . . just one, and having been in the Grocery industry for over 15 years, I've come to know hundreds of thousands.

Here, at this site, however, I could say maybe about four or five.

If a person doesn't understand Circumcision of the Heart, "you're" hanging by the skin of your teeth. I'd get it figured out pronto.
Thank you for your reply, but it went way over my head. You're not obligated to clarify, but it would help me to know how to respond properly.

- you know of one person in the real world who believes in Jesus Christ, but only 4 or 5 on this site? I thought most everyone here claims to believe in Jesus Christ.

Thanks
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
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#4
I’d say everyone who believes shall be saved

but I’d say what we believe is what matters of it’s the actual gospel of the kingdom belief is what brings all the repentance and obedience later from faith

belief is definately salvstion but believing false doctrines isn’t. We have to believe Jesus and his word his gospel brings everything else but many false ideas exist and many are led astray from truth by believing things other than the gospel we have to believe the things jesus taught and persevere in them

it’s not a matter of whether belief saves us it’s about what and who we believe believing Jesus brings true worship repentance , obedience and righteousness in deed and truth all because we accept and believe the truth

I understand I think what your saying a lot of people say I believe but they reject his teachings meant for belief and repentance and life

We gotta accept and believe this

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Jesus teachings saves us if we believe he will draw us near but if we hear and reject there’s nothing to believe and bring us to repentance

we need to follow the spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the term “believe “ has been misdirected by false doctrines believing right saves believing wrong leads astray and condemns

This has happened and is constantly happening

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭-2

it’s not that belief isn’t enough it’s what we believe that matters do I believe I need to repent and follow Jesus teachings ? That can save me if I do .

or Do I believe Jesus words don’t apply and I’m already saved and repentance isn’t for me and I can freely sin and inherit eternalLife because he died and rose ? That can destroy me if I believe it

we’re going to live by our true belief whether right or wrong so changing our belief conforming to Christ and his word is the answer
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
#5
I know of one in the real world. Yeah . . . just one, and having been in the Grocery industry for over 15 years, I've come to know hundreds of thousands.

Here, at this site, however, I could say maybe about four or five.

If a person doesn't understand Circumcision of the Heart, "you're" hanging by the skin of your teeth. I'd get it figured out pronto.
I agree! There are positive and negative aspects to believing in Christ in the gospels and Acts.

How that believing effects the heart will determine true faith in Christ.

Paul said that is "with the heart that man believes unto righteousness."
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
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#6
Thank you for your reply, but it went way over my head. You're not obligated to clarify, but it would help me to know how to respond properly.

- you know of one person in the real world who believes in Jesus Christ, but only 4 or 5 on this site? I thought most everyone here claims to believe in Jesus Christ.

Thanks
Yes, I have shown my adoptive father the True Gospel. When he was paid to take me at age 14, he was my Sunday School teacher. AFter we began studying the Bible together (over the last five years), we have come to realize that we didn't have a clue as to what the Bible was Truly about. We had no legitimate awareness of the Power of God, though we would have claimed that we did. We had no understand of the Purpose of Christ and the Work of Christ, which all revolves around Circumcision of the Heart. And more, we did not realize that there is to be an Effect of this Purpose and Work of Christ, which is a Truly Transformed life that comes not by the effort of a person, but by the Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life.

Not everyone who says they believe in Jesus is saved. In fact, only an EXTREME few are Truly saved, made evident by a Transformed life.

Matthew 7:21-23 NLT - "Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, 'Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.' 23 But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws."

Why will Jesus refer to these people as "Lawbreakers"? Because Circumcision of the Heart separates a person from any and all worldly laws except the Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life. Judgment is no longer rendered because of any worldly law, but the Indwelling Law that governs and guides a person. We must be Enabled.

2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."

If you are unaware of these teachings . . . I'd hop on it today.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
780
113
#7
Eddie Ramos, you are correct. Not all that believe in the Lord and call on Him will be saved. Saving faith is more than just belief in Jesus, it's belief in Jesus and following His teachings. Matthew 7:21-23 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'LORD, LORD,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#8
By the way, those "Promises" noted above in the 2nd Peter passages? Those are the Promises the God has kept hidden in the lives of Abraham and Sarah. We have to get back to Abraham if we want to understand the True Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I love our Bible!!
 
Dec 19, 2021
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#9
I’d say everyone who believes shall be saved

but I’d say what we believe is what matters of it’s the actual gospel of the kingdom belief is what brings all the repentance and obedience later from faith

belief is definately salvstion but believing false doctrines isn’t. We have to believe Jesus and his word his gospel brings everything else but many false ideas exist and many are led astray from truth by believing things other than the gospel we have to believe the things jesus taught and persevere in them

it’s not a matter of whether belief saves us it’s about what and who we believe believing Jesus brings true worship repentance , obedience and righteousness in deed and truth all because we accept and believe the truth

I understand I think what your saying a lot of people say I believe but they reject his teachings meant for belief and repentance and life

We gotta accept and believe this

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Jesus teachings saves us if we believe he will draw us near but if we hear and reject there’s nothing to believe and bring us to repentance

we need to follow the spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the term “believe “ has been misdirected by false doctrines believing right saves believing wrong leads astray and condemns

This has happened and is constantly happening

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭-2

it’s not that belief isn’t enough it’s what we believe that matters do I believe I need to repent and follow Jesus teachings ? That can save me if I do .

or Do I believe Jesus words don’t apply and I’m already saved and repentance isn’t for me and I can freely sin and inherit eternalLife because he died and rose ? That can destroy me if I believe it

we’re going to live by our true belief whether right or wrong so changing our belief conforming to Christ and his word is the answer
Thanks for the reply. Not sure if you read the entire opening post, but I gave 2 examples of people believing in Christ (John 8) and his gospel (Acts 8) and yet they didn't become saved.

The point was to demonstrate that believing is not as simple as many make it out to be, because they don't take the time to put all the pieces of this doctrine together.

Instead, they turn to one or two scriptures that says exactly what they believe and their fully convinced that that is the way.

I began my examples by comparing them to:

Acts 16:30-31 (KJV) 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

This seems pretty straightforward but it's actually not. There was much more involved in the salvation process, and none of it is because man exercised His own will, as in the 2 examples I gave in my opening post.

You have a point though, it certainly always matters what we believe, that would be our doctrinal stances. But our doctrinal stances never had anything to do with our salvation.
Remember, John the Baptist was saved before he was even born, not yet understanding any doctrine.

Luke 1:15 (KJV) 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
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#10
Thanks for the reply. Not sure if you read the entire opening post, but I gave 2 examples of people believing in Christ (John 8) and his gospel (Acts 8) and yet they didn't become saved.

The point was to demonstrate that believing is not as simple as many make it out to be, because they don't take the time to put all the pieces of this doctrine together.

Instead, they turn to one or two scriptures that says exactly what they believe and their fully convinced that that is the way.

I began my examples by comparing them to:

Acts 16:30-31 (KJV) 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

This seems pretty straightforward but it's actually not. There was much more involved in the salvation process, and none of it is because man exercised His own will, as in the 2 examples I gave in my opening post.

You have a point though, it certainly always matters what we believe, that would be our doctrinal stances. But our doctrinal stances never had anything to do with our salvation.
Remember, John the Baptist was saved before he was even born, not yet understanding any doctrine.

Luke 1:15 (KJV) 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
yes I did read the post for sure . I’m saying what we believe is what matters do we accept what Jesus taught ? Or do we call the gospel one or two other scriptures ?

I actually found your post to be a good one me agree with a lot of what you are saying what I’m saying is the reason we don’t commit is we reject the gospel teachings like for instance this type of belief will save us if we actually begin to believe this way

“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see what I mean ? That’s going to teach us about commuting to Jesus and following him , going to teach us That to we do have to answer formoir actions

people do that with one or two scriptures because that’s what people teach them and call It the true gospel

so if I reject all the things jesus teaches like this

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can either accept that and believe it because the lords saying it or we can reject it and keep believing we don’t need repentance belief is enough it’s a matter of it being the right belief

once we believe wrong it’s becomes harder to change that.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s as true as any scriptire but it’s only a scriptire it doesn’t hold the whole story and details but it’s enough to go there and start hearing what Jesus said about salvstion and eternal life in the kingdom

changing our beliefs is what saves

“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

changing how we believe is salvstion because we were like this

“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I’m saying sort of is this regarding proper worship of spirit and truth

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to let what Jesus said into our faith because that’s Gods perfect and pleasing will we need to conform to the gospel in our faith. Hearing and believing the gospel is able to transform our beliefs d humans are always going to follow thier real beliefs inside our actions tell the truth out what we believe

if we can accept the understanding Christ made clear we’re going to be saved
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#11
I don't know about Simon in Acts, but the others were the Blessed Jews. Simon was probably approved of by the Pharisees, Saducees, and teachers of the law, though, thus COULD be grouped into one who was disallowed from genuine belief, as clearly described below. The others as mentioned,, however, were of the group whom the Lord had placed into a deep sleep, thus they were disabled from the possibility of belief that would lead to Holy Salvation. I don't know why, but few "christians" accept these Words as the Truth and reality of their Spiritual malady:

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
5,907
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#12
I don't know about Simon in Acts, but the others were the Blessed Jews. Simon was probably approved of by the Pharisees, Saducees, and teachers of the law, though, thus COULD be grouped into one who was disallowed from genuine belief, as clearly described below. The others as mentioned,, however, were of the group whom the Lord had placed into a deep sleep, thus they were disabled from the possibility of belief that would lead to Holy Salvation. I don't know why, but few "christians" accept these Words as the Truth and reality of their Spiritual malady:

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."
this is what blinded them

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
2,707
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#13
I wish I could say many but sadly no I could not do so for I have no one in my life who has the same zeal the same fire and hunger, even many one here whom I have come to respect I couldn't say for sure many here are very wise and insightful in scripture but this alone is not enough.
But when I sense the spirit in someone who has posted I know without a doubt that they are a Christian by heart not merely by title.
A seed can be sown but if it falls on soil that cannot produce true growth you get the religious type who may very well be wise and well versed in scripture but they lack that fire that hunger and ache for the Lord.
 
Dec 19, 2021
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#14
I agree! There are positive and negative aspects to believing in Christ in the gospels and Acts.

How that believing effects the heart will determine true faith in Christ.

Paul said that is "with the heart that man believes unto righteousness."
Thank you for that reply Charlie, you actually touched on the next part of my opening post which has to do with the heart.

The KEY to believing, in the way that God has required it, is with the heart, as you mentioned. But, the next question we have to ask is, with which heart?

Answering this question is what will allow us to correctly solidify our doctrine of "believing".

The Bible teaches that an unsaved human being has a heart of stone. This is the case with everyone who was ever conceived of a man and woman. This heart, the Bible describes as being deceitful and desperately wicked.

Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV) 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

This is not the heart by which someone believed in the manner which God required. Something had to happen before an individual could believe. God first had to do all the work of regeneration within that individual and bring them from their spiritual death to spiritual life.

Only after God had performed this work of regeneration, could that individual obey God's commandment to believe in the way that God required it. God explains the regeneration process here. Please notice that God is the one performing all the work.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 (KJV) 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The majority of people believe that one has to be sincere as they choose to believe in Christ and then that will produce true regeneration. But that is not found in the scriptures.

There was only ever one requirement for a person to become saved. They had to hear the gospel, that's it.

Romans 10:17 (KJV) 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The "hearing" being spoken of here is not physical hearing but spiritual hearing. Faith comes by having your spiritual ears opened by God. And the spiritual opening of the ears (salvation) came by the Word of God.

This is why the gospel had to be preached in all the world, so that God could apply his spoken word to each and everyone he chose to save and give them ears to hear, meaning give them salvation.

Now we can understand why Christ often said, he that hath ears to hear let him hear". Well, physically, everyone had ears to hear (unless they were deaf), but that's not what Christ was referring to. Christ was speaking to those who had already become saved, as they were given ears to hear the spiritual truths of Christ. As opposed to some Pharisees who thought they were children of God, but they did not have salvation. In other words, they did not have ears to hear.

John 8:47 (KJV) 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Getting back to the heart. Once God performed the action of regeneration, he gave that individual a new heart, a perfect heart. This is the heart which Romans 10 is speaking of.

Romans 10:9-10 (KJV) 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

So, the reason many who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are not truly saved, is because they trust in a work they have performed by choosing to believe in Jesus Christ, thinking that that automatically saved them. But they are trusting in a work of righteousness by obeying God's commandment to believe.

Titus 3:5 (KJV) 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#15
NOT EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES WILL BE SAVED
So now EddieRamos is into false doctrines. What did Paul says? And [the jailer] brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe* on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)

*Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.


Looks like you are promoting "another gospel". We are talking about genuine faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. Not mere "professions" of faith, such as those of Simon the Sorcerer.
 
Dec 19, 2021
141
25
18
#16
So now EddieRamos is into false doctrines. What did Paul says? And [the jailer] brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe* on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)

*Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.


Looks like you are promoting "another gospel". We are talking about genuine faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. Not mere "professions" of faith, such as those of Simon the Sorcerer.
I don't recall Reading anywhere where the Jews in John 8 or Simon the sorcerer gave a profession of faith. If you have such a passage, please post it here for us to read.

The mere fact that you posted Acts 16:30-31 as your evidence of believing unto salvation, proves that you are not considering all the pieces of thus doctrine contained in the scriptures. Both the Jews of John8 and Simon did exactly what Paul stated needed to be done in order to be saved, and yet, for them, it was of none effect. This is the Bibles way of telling us that we need to look closer at what God means by "believe".

Here's a question for you? Has anyone ever become saved by keeping any of God's commandments? I would like a reply.

But before you decide on your answer, here's another question to consider. Is, "believe in Jesus" a commandment? Let's see:

1 John 3:23 (KJV) 23 And THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, That we should BELIEVE on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

No matter how many times the true doctrine of God's word gets labeled as false, it will always stand every test put on it by man and prove man's own doctrines to be false.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
780
113
#17
Eddie Ramos is correct in his interpretation of Scripture, concerning faith. Faith is not just believing that Jesus is God and Savior:

BELIEF IN JESUS AND JUDGEMENT OF NATIONS

Many Christians believe that faith in Jesus simply means believing in Him as Lord and Savior. But true Christian faith in Jesus is much deeper than that. Jesus told us that faith in Him includes believing and following His teachings and obeying His commandments.

Jesus once asked His apostles, “How can you say that you love Me, if you don’t keep My commandments.

Jesus told His disciples, “I give you a new commandment; love one another as I have loved you. This is how all will know that you are My disciples.”

In the Gospel of John (14:15), Jesus is clear when He says, “ He who loves me keeps my words and whoever does not love me does not keep My words. Faith includes following what Jesus taught. Can you get to heaven without love of Jesus?

Jesus makes it clear, many times, that faith includes believing and following His teachings, “He told us (Matt 7:24-27) “Everyone who hears My words and does not do them is like a foolish man who built his house upon sand.”

Jesus taught that the most important commandment is to love God with all our heart and our neighbor as our self. In the parable of the Good Samaritan, He says, Do this and you shall have eternal life.

That’s worth repeating, Jesus said, “ Love God with all our heart and our neighbor as our self, Do this, and you shall have eternal life.

In the Gospel of The Judgment of Nations (Matt 25), Jesus emphasized the importance of love of neighbor. This Gospel reading is simple and to the point. It is the end of the world and the day of judgment for all mankind. Jesus comes with all His power and glory.

On this last day, Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the good from the evil. The sheep will inherit eternal life and the goats will be eternally damned. And Jesus tells us the basis by which we will be judged in this Gospel.

Jesus tells us that those who showed love of neighbor, through acts of kindness feeding the hungry, visiting those in need, clothing the poor, taking care of the sick would inherit Jesus’ salvation and eternal life. Jesus made a point in teaching, whatever you do unto the least of your brothers, you do unto Me. Christians show our love for Jesus, their love for God, through love of our neighbor.

Jesus says that when we show love for our brothers and sisters, we are showing love for Jesus Himself. Jesus directly identifies Himself with the poor, the needy, and the oppressed, all God’s children. By loving and helping others, we are serving Christ.

In the Judgment of Nations, those that failed to show love for their neighbor would be damned for all eternity. What a terrible surprise it will be, for many people, to learn that, in not showing love for their neighbors, they had rejected Jesus and His salvation.

This Gospel reading is so important. It allows me to know what Jesus is going to be looking for when He judges me. Do I show my love for Jesus through love of neighbor? This has always been the acid test of Christianity.

When Jesus walked the earth, He set the example. He spent much of His time ministering to those in need. He cured the sick, made the lame walk, the blind see, and He preached the good news of salvation to the poor. Jesus showed His love by being a servant to people.

He did the service and asks His disciples to do the same. As Jesus’ disciples, He asks us to serve our brothers and sisters. Jesus presented us with a simple example for Christian living.

But you and I are not going to transform the whole world. We aren’t going to eliminate world poverty, or feed it’s millions. We don’t have the resources. Neither will we change the hearts of millions of people who have more than they need, but who won’t share.

But there is no excuse not to help others. We can make small changes for the better, help in small ways, in ordinary and everyday things. It may be as simple as giving a cup of water, maybe a few minutes of our time, maybe giving understanding and our spiritual support for those undergoing difficult situations, small acts of kindness and friendship on our part; treating others as we wish to be treated, with dignity and respect.

But it just has to be about our giving of ourselves to others. That’s what Christianity is all about.

Through Christ, our thoughts, words, and actions, no matter how small are given infinite value. Opportunities, to help others, present themselves many times a day. God has arranged things in such a way that no matter which way we turn, we bump in to someone in need. And when we do help remember, Whatsoever we do for the least of my brethren, we do for Jesus, Himself.

Jesus came to set up His Kingdom on earth, His Kingdom is totally opposed to the ways of this world, where money, power, sports, popularity, pleasure, and fame are false gods; where the importance and worth of people is measured by their fame, status, wealth, and where it is a case of survival for the fittest and luckiest.

The values of Jesus Kingdom are much different. He says the first rule in His Kingdom is to love God and neighbor. In Jesus’ kingdom, everyone is important. The most disabled, poor, or powerless person is just as important as the greatest genius that ever lived, just as important as the most powerful, famous, or richest person.

Our task, as Christians, is to contribute in small ways to the continued growth of Jesus’ kingdom on earth. Never forget that faith in Jesus includes believing what He taught and applying His teachings to our daily lives.

Now many of us may look back at our past lives, I know that I do, and say that I have mistreated so many people, ignored the needs of so many people, there were so many times when I could have helped, but didn’t.

I am surely doomed when Jesus judges me. But that’s just not true. Despite all my failures to show love to others, I still have great hope in Jesus’ salvation for myself.

One needs to remember that all the Great Saints were also great sinners. If we have failed to show our love of others, in the past, we can change. But we do need to ask Jesus for His help to change.

One of the greatest aspects about Christianity is that God offers us His love, mercy, and forgiveness every second of every day. And no matter how many times we have fallen and failed in the past, Christianity always allows us to pick ourselves back up, start over, and return to God.

Every so often, when we get a chance, some quiet time to be alone, all of us need to reflect on ourselves. Do I love God and neighbor? With Jesus’ help do I help others, not with great deeds, but with small acts of kindness? If I haven’t, am I willing to change.

Do show my love of God through my love of neighbor? How will I stand before Jesus at the moment of the Last Judgment?




FINAL THOUGHT

There’s no one that Christ doesn’t love, there’s no one that Christ doesn’t want to save and share His eternal life with. And make no mistake, this includes you and me.





















;
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#18
I’d say everyone who believes shall be savedr
I think that depends on what your definition is of "believe". I don't think scripture supports the idea that belief without action will save anyone. When this is taken to its extreme and not just as a policy of the Lord we are told that 1 Cor. 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Christ came to fulfill what was told to us in all the OT, Christ came to die for our sins. But when scripture tells us of the mission of Christ it does not say this, it says his mission was to tell us to repent, for the kingdom of God is near. That is what John the Baptist said it was and what is told to us in Matthew. Most of the gospels is about how to live in the world but have the kingdom of God your real home, the home you will have eternally.

Christ scolded about keeping the letter of the law and about men making rules they said was law and Paul goes on and on about law that many interpret as against law keepers, But a complete study of Paul shows he is speaking of the commands given to Jews before Christ came to make the fleshly commands spiritual. Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. This is only one example.

Over the years the book of James has been threatened, Luther wanted it taken out of scripture. James agreed with Christ that we are to act for the Lord when we accept His forgiveness.

James 1:22
Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselve.

If we believe in Christ, that Christ if God who can cancel out our sins with forgiveness, can we truly believe in Christ and have so little faith in what Christ tells us about repentance and living our lifes here that we act against it and act on the world's rules instead?

So many people gather up all scripture that could be interpreted as saying we don't have to follow Christ to be saved, Christ will save without our repentance of sin are not reading or hearing what Christ and even Paul tells them about it.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
5,907
113
#19
I think that depends on I don't think scripture supports the idea that belief without action will save anyone. When this is taken to its extreme and not just as a policy of the Lord we are told that 1 Cor. 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Christ came to fulfill what was told to us in all the OT, Christ came to die for our sins. But when scripture tells us of the mission of Christ it does not say this, it says his mission was to tell us to repent, for the kingdom of God is near. That is what John the Baptist said it was and what is told to us in Matthew. Most of the gospels is about how to live in the world but have the kingdom of God your real home, the home you will have eternally.

Christ scolded about keeping the letter of the law and about men making rules they said was law and Paul goes on and on about law that many interpret as against law keepers, But a complete study of Paul shows he is speaking of the commands given to Jews before Christ came to make the fleshly commands spiritual. Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. This is only one example.

Over the years the book of James has been threatened, Luther wanted it taken out of scripture. James agreed with Christ that we are to act for the Lord when we accept His forgiveness.

James 1:22
Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselve.

If we believe in Christ, that Christ if God who can cancel out our sins with forgiveness, can we truly believe in Christ and have so little faith in what Christ tells us about repentance and living our lifes here that we act against it and act on the world's rules instead?

So many people gather up all scripture that could be interpreted as saying we don't have to follow Christ to be saved, Christ will save without our repentance of sin are not reading or hearing what Christ and even Paul tells them about it.
“what your definition is of "believe".”

I’m saying we have to believe The gospel Jesus preached and taught

my point is that if we go to Jesus d the gospel and learn and believe what we learn he’s going to bring us to repentance and obedience by that faith

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when I say believe it means we have to accept this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it means accepting the teachings of Christ those teachings are what brings us into Gods true will for mankind repentance and righteousness

What I’m saying belief means is to start learning what Jesus taught his disciples and believe those true and right things

sort of where that brings us is here

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To believe we have to hear the gospel when we hear and believe the gospel it’s going to have this effect every time if we hear the true gospel and believe


I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s what learning from Jesus does for anyone who doesn’t reject what he’s teaching his teachings are literally salvation for believers

We have to let what Jesus taught , teach us what to believe so regarding obedience we have many many teachings like this

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see the difference is do I believe Thats meant for me ? Why do I call him lord and don’t obey ??? It’s meant to call me to repentance and obedience

The key is that someone puts Thy over faith in Jesus and believes what he is Teaching how would Jesus teachings shape a believers faith ? If they heard and believed ????

that’s we’re my faith will always be we have to let Jesus teach us salvstion repentance obedience ect he’s the teacher we’re the disciples who believe
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,942
1,617
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48
#20
To me, "belief" is beyond mere mental ascent.

Consider what James said in his epistle about believing: "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! (cf. James 2)".

Also, as has been noted above, Jesus asked why some people call Him "Lord" yet do not do what He says.

So assuming that belief is more than mere agreement with who and what Jesus is, then I would say indeed that all who believe WILL be saved.

To be clear, I am NOT saying that works save a person. Rather, I'm saying that belief in Christ goes deep into the heart.