Not truly born again if we sin?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#61
This is what I meant, .....
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

and also this....
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

well that might be what you meant.
but you said "baptism of the Holy Spirit is an instant glorification"

maybe you want to find out what baptism is.

i'll ask you to point out any saved individual alive today who is glorified.

and did John say we would be like Him (glorified) before He arrives? no.

Cobus, i have a serious question, i hope you will answer honestly.
do you believe anyone alive and walking around today is actually saved and can be assured they already have eternal life?

anyone?

another question: do you think the new birth happens at the Resurrection (end of time, Second Advent) or before?
 
Last edited:
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
0
#62
Cobus, i have a serious question, i hope you will answer honestly.
do you believe anyone alive and walking around today is actually saved and can be assured they already have eternal life?
Yes!

another question: do you think the new birth happens at the Resurrection (end of time, Second Advent) or before?
Before! The day of the Return of Jesus! Those that died IN HIM are already REBORN! I hope I understand your end of time as the LAST DAY before Jesus comes on the clouds! Because the end of time for me as a sinner is the day when God BAPTIZE/fill and overfill and surround me with His Spirit. When I am drenched and covered and surrounded in Holy Spirit, that is the end of time for me! End of MY time and the biginning of GOD TIME. Or Better put God's Life...Holy Life.
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#63
Cobus, i have a serious question, i hope you will answer honestly.
do you believe anyone alive and walking around today is actually saved and can be assured they already have eternal life?

Yes!
amen, Cobus:)

are any of them in glorified bodies yet?
no. so that theory of what happens when we are born from above doesn't work.

we receive the Holy Spirit in "measure", as a seal (God's stamp or sign - a King sealed His proclamations/possessions with his ring in a wax seal. a Guarantee, or down-payment on our future inheritance).

the Spirit in us is, and will do everything God requires to deliver us home. He is the Helper, the Comforter, and He is in us. God is One, Cobus...His will is done.

another question: do you think the new birth happens at the Resurrection (end of time, Second Advent) or before?

Before!
right. in this life, now. before your flesh body returns to dust.

do you believe anyone alive and walking around today is actually saved and can be assured they already have eternal life?

Yes!
John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

the end of time for me as a sinner is the day when God BAPTIZE/fill and overfill and surround me with His Spirit. When I am drenched and covered and surrounded in Holy Spirit, that is the end of time for me! End of MY time and the biginning of GOD TIME. Or Better put God's Life...Holy Life.
okay. but that happens in this life, now Cobus, or it doesn't happen at all.

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

the end of time for you in this flesh body is your physical death.
if you have been buried with Christ in His baptism, you have been raised with Him in His resurrection.
He is the first resurrection - we who are saved by grace through faith have died and been raised already (new birth). you still have an appointment with the grave - but you will never die because Jesus said so.

okay brother?

believe it Cobus.
find a good, solid calm and consistent church and obey the very first commandments of the Gospel. you already believe Cobus. so what prevents you from doing what Jesus instructed?:)

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

love ya
zoney

Acts 8
Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch

26Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the southd to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place. 27And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship 28and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” 30So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he opens not his mouth.
33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

34And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. 36And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 38And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.
 
A

AgapeSpiritEyes

Guest
#64
Excellent analogy. Very well put.

But what if the baby doesn't want to walk?
Then God reveals the pleasure in walking for purpose to enjoy what is planned and desired to give to the child
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#65
Your references does not show how believers should repent. It is no wonder why so many, including myself, see you preaching repentance by the flesh instead of by faith in the Son of God.

Explain away these verses since it shws how a believer is to run that race with Him.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

If sin can no longer be a part of his life then he would be perfect, but he is not.

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

There would be no call for perfection if a believer could never sin again so there is a continual need to rely on Jesus Christ in living this reconciled relationship with God.

So this part of piper27's response is correct.



I would clarify that correct response by adding that we are to look to the author & finisher of our faith to lay aside every weight and sin to run that race.

If we focus on the sin, anxieties can build up, and we become vulnerable. It is better to not dwell on it by looking to Him to help us think on good things.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

His yoke is easy & His burden is light because He will do it when we trust Him to do it. This is how and why it is written that the just shall live by faith.

Great Stuff! :)
 
Dec 6, 2012
213
0
0
#66
1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 state this... but who can really go through life and not sin except for God himself??
Paul - 'I still partake of the things which I know I should not'.

Nobody's perfect. Get rid of the guilt and instead see the benefit of life without sin. And meditate on it.

Nothing is instant. Wheat doesnt sprout four feet overnight.
 
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
0
#67
Zone, Thank you, I wish God will show you my mind. Jesus could see immediately what bothered a person and Jesus also could see the person's spiritual stand, or level. You know Zone there was a time that I got upset when you get nasty or less patient, but not any-more. It is like God teaches me all in 1 Peter... I will post something about that soon.

I realy have patience that astounds my natural man. I have longsuffering, that I am amazed my spirit would allow the patience and the soft approach to rude people. Oh in my mind it shoots up, but before it gets to the mouth or the eyes or the expression, God puts a smile on my face, peace in my heart and love in my eyes and words.

I know I am getting older, but the wisedom and knowledge I have now, can only be a gift of God! And to Him I say.... Lord I like Your Work on me, please continue and finish this person to be a lightbearer for all he meets.

This morning I was obedient, I had to go to a port and fix some things on a friends yaht. My son and I went, and we shared some good time. He is an amazing young man of almost 12. I know he is special, and I know God uses even him to enrich my life.... The bible says good children are arrows against evil, well my son is a GOOD ARROW! And the work we did, would put a little bit of peace in a man's heart. We have to listen when God tells us to do something. Even if I sit and look at the birds or the ocean, and God puts Zoney on my heart, I should pray right there and then, one day God will show us what our prayers did.

My thoughts about God and what His children does, is way different than most people, but I LOVE what I see. I Love what God promised and what HE assured us of. I need no church or other people Zoney. Really, my house, my first church, is a little piece of heaven.... Love, peace, patience, quiet spirits and beautiful respecting people in one house/home makes it heavenly.

When I need to break bread or share, I come here to Zoney and Pickles and others. When I need to learn, all I have to do, is LISTEN.... God leads me to His Word and He reveals whatever scripture HE tells me to read. Do you also get the same info? I would stand up in the morning and there will be a crtain scripture in my head... Like this morning, 2 Peter 1.... Then I go to read, and it all falls in place, making PERFECT sence. So clear and definate, I cannot not understand! It is great when God does this. GREAT!

I will post a thread soon.... Love ya too Zoney, and we WILL be ONE with Him, and agree 100% with Him!