Obedience REQUIRED

[PastMyPrime]

I don't live in sin, no.
I have sinned in the past. And there's a possibility that I could sin in the future,



No, I pointed out the false doctrine of the reformers who claim they live in sin every day and sin daily in thought word and deed claiming it's not possible to stop living in sin as they claim God put sin in them when they were formed in the womb so they are born sinners

Hey man, if you feel the need to sin all the time have at it. Doesn't effect me on judgement day at all.

Have you ever though about believing this passage and accepting it as actually being true???

1 John 1:7 - if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin

I have never said I live in sin nor have I read any other post such a thing.
A person that continues to live in sin has never been save.
We are told in Hebrews that God will chastise His children and if you are not chastised you are not one of His children.
You are judging people as lost because they admit they do sin from time to time saying they are living is sin, not really striving to live in obedience.
And be sure if you live very long you will sin several times. There is no might about it.

 

[PastMyPrime]

What some do not understand is that some believers have a much more difficult time to put sin out of their lives than others.
A person that has never been associated with believers before, knows little or nothing about what living in obedience means, is still living in an ungodly home or environment, is not being taught what is sin and what is not, he or she may fail every day.
And then you have these people who say you must be obedient or you will lose your salvation, and they just give up.
I met one lady years ago who was about to kill herself because she could not seem to please her pastor's demand that she must live without sin or lose her salvation.
I got her to come to our church and+ attend a new believer's class, and she soon became a very happy and fruitful believer.
People should be very careful what you post and teach. You often do much more harm than good to young, immature
believers.

 

[NightTwister]

Romans 4:4 - Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. - Philipinans 2:13

 

[Freed18]

Freed18, you just confirmed you do not believe Jesus Christ is the complete Savior that Scripture plainly and
unequivocally declares Him to be. When (if) you are able to, the rest of the pieces will also fall into place. Should that
occur, post me and we can continue then.

If Jesus wasn't the complete Savior, I would still be walking in sin.
But I walk in the light, which is God; and there is no sin in here.

How come the complete Savior has left you in sin ?
Could it possible be, that you have yet to avail yourself of His gift of repentance from sin ?
He won't force it on you, you know ?

 

[OMC]

What some do not understand is that some believers have a much more difficult time to put sin out of their lives than others.
A person that has never been associated with believers before, knows little or nothing about what living in obedience means, is still living in an ungodly home or environment, is not being taught what is sin and what is not, he or she may fail every day.
And then you have these people who say you must be obedient or you will lose your salvation, and they just give up.
I met one lady years ago who was about to kill herself because she could not seem to please her pastor's demand that she must live without sin or lose her salvation.
I got her to come to our church and+ attend a new believer's class, and she soon became a very happy and fruitful believer.
People should be very careful what you post and teach. You often do much more harm than good to young, immature
believers.

From my experience, I can say that what he claims is true for me. I knew nothing about God, nor did I care. But when He found me, it felt like I fought Him every step of the way until I stopped resisting and began listening. My sins were many and daily, until they weren’t. I still sin, much to my shame. I did today, and I’m still repenting for it. That doesn’t mean I’m lost; I’m just a work in progress.

 

[Freed18]

Romans 4:4 - Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

I hope you realize that the works mentioned were the works of the Law.
That is the only works Paul ever wrote against...circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, etc.
Obedience to God is of paramount importance to our eventual day of judgement.

 

[Freed18]

From my experience, I can say that what he claims is true for me. I knew nothing about God, nor did I care. But when He found me, it felt like I fought Him every step of the way until I stopped resisting and began listening. My sins were many and daily, until they weren’t. I still sin, much to my shame. I did today, and I’m still repenting for it. That doesn’t mean I’m lost; I’m just a work in progress.

I pray that you will come to your real repentance from sin, before it is too late.

 

[OMC]

I pray that you will come to your real repentance from sin, before it is too late.

Excuse me? And what sin are you referring to? And how could you possibly know what sin or sins I am guilty of?

 

[OMC]

I hope you realize that the works mentioned were the works of the Law.
That is the only works Paul ever wrote against...circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, etc.
Obedience to God is of paramount importance to our eventual day of judgement.

Paul is certainly arguing against reliance on works for justification, and in Romans 4 his immediate examples include circumcision (Rom. 4:9-12) and matters connected to the Law.
However, Paul does not limit the principle only to ceremonial works.
His point is broader: "to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt" (Rom. 4:4).
If any work, whether ceremonial or moral, could earn justification, salvation would be a debt owed rather than a gift of grace.
That is why Paul says God "justifies the ungodly" who believe (Rom. 4:5).
At the same time, Scripture also teaches that obedience matters and that all people will be judged according to their deeds (Matt. 16:27; Rom. 2:6; Rev. 20:12-13).
The biblical distinction is that works do not justify us before God, but genuine faith produces obedience (Eph. 2:8-10; James 2:17-18). Therefore, obedience is not the cause of our justification, yet it is evidence of a living faith and will be part of the testimony considered on the day of judgment.

 

[Freed18]

Excuse me? And what sin are you referring to? And how could you possibly know what sin or sins I am guilty of?

You just said you sinned today, and are repenting of it. (post #265)
That sin.

 

[OMC]

You just said you sinned today, and are repenting of it. (post #265)
That sin.

From my experience, I can say that what he claims is true for me. I knew nothing about God, nor did I care. But when He found me, it felt like I fought Him every step of the way until I stopped resisting and began listening. My sins were many and daily, until they weren’t. I still sin, much to my shame. I did today, and I’m still repenting for it. That doesn’t mean I’m lost; I’m just a work in progress.

 

[Freed18]

Paul is certainly arguing against reliance on works for justification, and in Romans 4 his immediate examples include circumcision (Rom. 4:9-12) and matters connected to the Law.
However, Paul does not limit the principle only to ceremonial works.
His point is broader: "to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt" (Rom. 4:4).
If any work, whether ceremonial or moral, could earn justification, salvation would be a debt owed rather than a gift of grace.
That is why Paul says God "justifies the ungodly" who believe (Rom. 4:5).
At the same time, Scripture also teaches that obedience matters and that all people will be judged according to their deeds (Matt. 16:27; Rom. 2:6; Rev. 20:12-13).
The biblical distinction is that works do not justify us before God, but genuine faith produces obedience (Eph. 2:8-10; James 2:17-18). Therefore, obedience is not the cause of our justification, yet it is evidence of a living faith and will be part of the testimony considered on the day of judgment.

The doctrine you present ultimately makes resisting temptation a bad thing.
I resist temptation so I will find my name in the book of life on the last day.
Is that an evil/wicked thing ?
Is repentance from sin an evil or wicked thing to do for salvation ?
Is baptim in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, for salvation, an evil or wicked thing ?
Our salvation, is in our hands.
But the works of the Mosaic Law are not good enough, for salvation.

 

[Freed18]

From my experience, I can say that what he claims is true for me. I knew nothing about God, nor did I care. But when He found me, it felt like I fought Him every step of the way until I stopped resisting and began listening. My sins were many and daily, until they weren’t. I still sin, much to my shame. I did today, and I’m still repenting for it. That doesn’t mean I’m lost; I’m just a work in progress.

I pray that your repenting will eventually be unnecessary.
And that your love for God and neighbor will make sin a thing of the past.

 

[OMC]

The doctrine you present ultimately makes resisting temptation a bad thing.
I resist temptation so I will find my name in the book of life on the last day.
Is that an evil/wicked thing ?
Is repentance from sin an evil or wicked thing to do for salvation ?
Is baptim in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, for salvation, an evil or wicked thing ?
Our salvation, is in our hands.
But the works of the Mosaic Law are not good enough, for salvation.

No, resisting temptation is not evil.
No, repentance is not evil.
No, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is not evil.
Scripture commands all of those things.
The question is not whether obedience is good, but whether obedience is the basis upon which God justifies a sinner.

Romans 4:5 says God justifies "the ungodly" who believe, not the godly who have already overcome enough temptation.
If I say I resist sin because God commands it, that is obedience.
If I say I resist sin so that I can earn my place in the Book of Life, I have made eternal life a wage for my performance, which is exactly the principle Paul argues against in Romans 4:4.
The apostles consistently preached repentance, faith, baptism, holiness, and perseverance, yet they also taught that eternal life is the gift of God (Rom. 6:23), that we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves (Eph. 2:8-9), and that no flesh will be justified by works (Rom. 3:20).
Therefore, I do not oppose obedience at all.
I oppose making obedience the thing that earns justification.
Scripture presents obedience as the response of faith, not the purchase price of salvation.
If our salvation is ultimately in our own hands, then Christ did not save sinners; He merely made salvation possible and left the final outcome to human performance.
Yet Jesus said, "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish" (John 10:28), and Paul said that the one who began a good work in believers will complete it (Phil. 1:6).
The biblical tension is that believers must endure, repent, and obey, but their confidence rests in God's grace and Christ's work, not in their own ability to secure their final salvation.

 

[OMC]

I pray that your repenting will eventually be unnecessary.
And that your love for God and neighbor will make sin a thing of the past.

I appreciate the spirit of that prayer.
Scripture does point toward the day when sin will finally be gone from God's people.

Yet until that day, repentance remains necessary because "if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1 John 1:8), and believers are instructed to confess their sins (1 John 1:9).

I certainly hope to grow in love for God and neighbor, because "love is the fulfilling of the law" (Rom. 13:10), and everyone who abides in Christ should walk as He walked (1 John 2:6).
At the same time, my confidence is not that I will someday reach a level of obedience where repentance becomes unnecessary in this present age, but that Christ is faithful to complete the work He began in His people (Phil. 1:6).

The goal is not merely less repentance, but greater conformity to Christ.
Until He comes, I expect to keep fighting sin, keep repenting when I fail, and keep trusting in the mercy of God revealed in Jesus Christ.