Obedience REQUIRED

[Pilgrimshope]

obedience to WHAT?

the gospel.

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If this happens to those who don’t obey the gospel what does it say of those who do ?

No one seems to grasp this is a time of judgement against unrighteousness since Jesus ascended to heaven but it is

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One day we have to face this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If we want to know the word that’s going to judge us that day , it’s the word of Jesus in the gospel

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we go to Jesus and begin to learn the obedience comes because we’re being taught and informed by him to repent and do good rather than evil


ot doesn’t have anything to do with Moses or the old covenant but Jesus and the apostles teach the gospel through thier instruction and revelation

 

[SACREDWARRIOR]

The Gospel, Is simply the "GOOD NEWS" of JESUS paying our debt as opposed to a system of LAWS, ORDINANCES, etc....by HIS ultimate sacrifice and payment in full..at the cross.....
I trust what your thread implies, is that what and old church I attended used to say " A GOSPEL THAT HASN'T CHANGED YOU, HASN'T SAVED YOU"
but, if your intent is to burden believers with some sort of adherence to old testament rule keeping then I would strongly disagree...
the Olivet Discourse, Mat. 24, says that at the time of the end, MOST PEOPLE WILL FALL AWAY... I would suggest we are nearing that very time frame.
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!!!!
Clarence

 

[Lynx]

Been hanging out at the alter of this Dino guy, huh? Reminds me of "I am of Paul; and I of Apollos" referring to a division among early Christians in Corinth who were being carnal minded.

I've just seen him around the forum enough to know that what you say about him is not true.

Your guy asked "Obedience to what, exactly? You say "obedient to the Lord", so I'm presuming you mean to His instructions and commandments in Scripture. So... which ones, precisely?"

He's either a baby Christian or he's preparing to argue that Christians can walk in disobedience and still be saved.

I'll let you fellas work that out among your own selves.

The interesting part is that you automatically assume Dino is arguing in favor of sin. If you read his first post again and shift your perspective a bit you might see what he was really saying.

Or you could even ask what he means. Now there's a thought! I guarantee you misread his intent, but asking him could clear things up marvelously.

Of course I don't for a moment think you will actually DO that. Far more convenient to assume he means what you want him to mean, so you can argue against what you think he said. But there's always hope.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The Gospel, Is simply the "GOOD NEWS" of JESUS paying our debt as opposed to a system of LAWS, ORDINANCES, etc....by HIS ultimate sacrifice and payment in full..at the cross.....
I trust what your thread implies, is that what and old church I attended used to say " A GOSPEL THAT HASN'T CHANGED YOU, HASN'T SAVED YOU"
but, if your intent is to burden believers with some sort of adherence to old testament rule keeping then I would strongly disagree...
the Olivet Discourse, Mat. 24, says that at the time of the end, MOST PEOPLE WILL FALL AWAY... I would suggest we are nearing that very time frame.
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!!!!
Clarence

When you're genuinely saved, the natural result is that you become obedient to God and able to resist sin because of the Holy Spirit at work in you as you submit to Him.

If that isn't happening, then you have to ask God if you're really saved and fix that.

And yes, people are already falling away due to a watered down gospel and easy believism.

 

[OMC]

OK so we have our first contestant who is saying we can live in disobedience and still be saved.

Bottom line here is Jesus is the author of eternal salvation ONLY to them that obey Him.
Those that disobey the Lord are living in obedience to the devil.

Romans 6:16 states: "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

You need to learn ASAP that disobedience is death and death is being separated from the Lord

You assume to much to know the heart of a person, You are not God.
You’re trying to force a binary that Hebrews, Romans, and Jesus Himself never allow: either obedience earns salvation or disobedience proves damnation — but the apostolic pattern is different, because Scripture distinguishes between occasional disobedience (which believers still commit, 1 John 1:8) and settled, willful rebellion (which reveals an unregenerate heart, 1 John 3:9); Hebrews 5:9 does not say “salvation belongs to those who obey perfectly,” it says Christ is the author of salvation to those who obey Him — meaning those whose lives are marked by submission to His lordship, not those who never sin; Romans 6:16 is not teaching that one act of disobedience makes you the devil’s servant, but that the direction of your obedience reveals your master — the regenerate yield themselves to righteousness, the unregenerate yield themselves to sin; so when you say “disobedience is death,” you’re right only in the sense that persistent, unrepentant, identity‑level disobedience is death, but you’re wrong if you mean that every lapse, failure, or fall severs a believer from Christ, because that contradicts Romans 7, contradicts David’s restoration, contradicts Peter’s denial, and contradicts Jesus’ own promise that He loses none of those given to Him; the biblical line is simple: salvation produces obedience, but obedience is the fruit, not the root, and disobedience is the danger, not the definition, of the believer’s life — the saved can fall, but they cannot live indefinitely in rebellion without divine interruption.

 

[Gideon300]

So it's all good to ignore Hebrews 5:9?
Many Christians are doing exactly that

I'm glad that you have never once sinned since you were saved. That gives you the right to judge others, of course. Don't worry, God will judge you the way you judge the brethren. Since you are perfect in every way, you will have no problem, right?

"We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body." James 3:2 I take it that you are not one of the "all".

"Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail." James 5:16. Of course, you have no sins to confess, so you are exempt.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9. Why would that be necessary if believers never sin?

 

[Freed18]

Yeah, it's too bad that even through the power of God's Word and the Holy Spirit it's not possible to stop sinning.

(I feel that you should have included a 'Sarcasm Alert' with that comment)

Jesus said all things are possible to him that believes and with God all things are possible

Amen.

but Jesus wasn't trained under reformed theology so some think Jesus is in error and needs to enroll in a reformed seminary so He can get up to speed with reality, right?

 

[Freed18]

I don't follow reformed theology. Romans 6 talks about having grace and then why sin because of the grace given?

Then it goes on to talk about the battle between flesh and the Spirit.

Believers should go on to faithfulness in their walk, but the battle remains.

Can you elaborate on what you consider Rom 6's battle between flesh and Spirit ?
I see Rom 6:6's claim that the flesh has been destroyed !

 

[Freed18]

I'm glad that you have never once sinned since you were saved. That gives you the right to judge others, of course. Don't worry, God will judge you the way you judge the brethren. Since you are perfect in every way, you will have no problem, right?

Correct !

"We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body." James 3:2 I take it that you are not one of the "all".

Correct: those bringing forth sweet water are not the same as those bringing forth salty water.

"Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail." James 5:16. Of course, you have no sins to confess, so you are exempt.

Correct.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9. Why would that be necessary if believers never sin?

Because the audience contains unbelievers.
Others walk in the light...which is God...in Whom is no darkness (sin).

 

[wattie]

Can you elaborate on what you consider Rom 6's battle between flesh and Spirit ?
I see Rom 6:6's claim that the flesh has been destroyed !

Well, we are in fallen bodies. So, when indwelled with the Holy Spirit, we have fallen nature vs seeking after the Holy Spirit who dwells in the believer's spirit.

The stain of sin is forgiven, a saved person is indwelled, a place in heaven is given freely. But that person is still human. Humans are not perfect. Even after being born again.

You can look in other parts of scripture for the battle between flesh and spirit.

Romans 13:12-14 KJV
The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. [13] Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. [14] But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm glad that you have never once sinned since you were saved. That gives you the right to judge others, of course. Don't worry, God will judge you the way you judge the brethren. Since you are perfect in every way, you will have no problem, right?

"We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body." James 3:2 I take it that you are not one of the "all".

"Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail." James 5:16. Of course, you have no sins to confess, so you are exempt.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9. Why would that be necessary if believers never sin?

Well said also there’s this

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Freed18]

Well, we are in fallen bodies. So, when indwelled with the Holy Spirit, we have fallen nature vs seeking after the Holy Spirit who dwells in the believer's spirit.

Those reborn of God's seed have put on Christ, and nothing of the sort is written in Rom 6 about your POV.

The stain of sin is forgiven, a saved person is indwelled, a place in heaven is given freely. But that person is still human. Humans are not perfect. Even after being born again.

Can an apple seed bring forth plums ?
NO ?
Then why do you think God's seed can bring forth liars, thieves, and adulterers ?

You can look in other parts of scripture for the battle between flesh and spirit.
Romans 13:12-14 KJV
The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. [13] Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. [14] But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

If you will repent of sin, and be washed of them by the blood of Christ, and put on Christ Jesus, you will cease from making provision for the now dead "flesh".
Jesus never did make provision for the worldly oriented mind, ("flesh"), and in Him, we won't either.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Those reborn of God's seed have put on Christ, and nothing of the sort is written in Rom 6 about your POV.

Can an apple seed bring forth plums ?
NO ?
Then why do you think God's seed can bring forth liars, thieves, and adulterers ?

If you will repent of sin, and be washed of them by the blood of Christ, and put on Christ Jesus, you will cease from making provision for the now dead "flesh".
Jesus never did make provision for the worldly oriented mind, ("flesh"), and in Him, we won't either.

This is so encouraging! Thanks so much!

 

[ScooterJackson]

You could break that down to mean "insults also."

I didn't insult anybody. Some just get offended at the truth because they follow man made religious doctrines such as reformed theology rather than studying the Bible for themselves and abiding in Christ. .

Some do praise GOD get Stuck on the word "obey."

Yeah, the devil has them convinced that they can live in disobedience to the Lord and still be saved.

Clearly that idea is not biblical and is a result off people allowing the devil to deceive them in to not accepting the plain reading of scripture.

But as Paul said, "It is no longer I that sin, but sin that is in me."

Typical reformed reply claiming they live in sin and just can't help it.
Too bad you people won't accept Romans 8

If I say I have no sin, I deceive myself, and the truth is not in me.

1 John 3:8 - He that committeth sin is of the devil

Maybe someday you'll accept all of the New Testament

For by grace I am saved through faith not obedience, not works.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:6 - Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Back to Eph I put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness, and I'm renewed in the spirit of my mind. I put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."

IF that were true then you would be living in obedience to the Lord.

Sounds like what you did was put in reformed theology instead of the new man

Jesus said to them years later, "if you love me, you'll keep my words or obey me."

Yes, which is why I posted this as a reminder

Hebrews 5:9 - And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him

 

[NotmebutHim]

I'm with you, @Lynx

Popcorn indeed!

 

[ScooterJackson]

I've just seen him around the forum enough to know that what you say about him is not true.

Good for you then. Maybe consider sending him an offering or buying some of his merch

If you read his first post again and shift your perspective a bit you might see what he was really saying.

Your guy asked "Obedience to what, exactly? You say "obedient to the Lord", so I'm presuming you mean to His instructions and commandments in Scripture. So... which ones, precisely?"

Again, he's either a baby Christian that does not know the answer to the questions he is posing or he's preparing to argue against living in obedience to the Lord as scripture prescribes.

You are claiming he's not a bay Christian and is very knowledgeable in the Word, so if that's true then he seeks to play mind games because of carnal minded religious teachings in stead of accepting all of that the Lord taught in the Word so you can engage if you;d like and I'll continue to declare what God says in His Word and leave the mind games to the carnal minded religious people.

 

[NotmebutHim]

These two passages come to mind:

"Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 'Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

- Luke 18:9-14 NKJV

"To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,

‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:' I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.'".

- Revelation 2:1-7 NKJV

 

[ScooterJackson]

To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life

Yes, meaning those walking after the flesh won't make the cut.

The devil knows this which is why he is using the big churches and big time preachers to teach the false doctrine of eternal security. It's a snare of the devil.

 

[Chester]

When you're genuinely saved, the natural result is that you become obedient to God and able to resist sin because of the Holy Spirit at work in you as you submit to Him.

If that isn't happening, then you have to ask God if you're really saved and fix that.

And yes, people are already falling away due to a watered down gospel and easy believism.

Some wise thoughts here: one thing I would like to add to (comment on) is the thought that "the natural result is that you become obedient to God and able to resist sin . . ." While this may be true to some extent, I think one needs to be careful that it is not taken too far . . . Yes, when we become a believer we are a new creature immediately and the Holy Spirit lives in us and helps us to live above sin! At the same time, it takes effort, and actually a lot of effort, and hard work to be obedient and to live above sin. Too many Christians drift along in life, get caught in sin patterns, and wind up doing little for the Kingdom of God.

 

[Chester]

I've just seen him around the forum enough to know that what you say about him is not true.

The interesting part is that you automatically assume Dino is arguing in favor of sin. If you read his first post again and shift your perspective a bit you might see what he was really saying.

Or you could even ask what he means. Now there's a thought! I guarantee you misread his intent, but asking him could clear things up marvelously.

Of course I don't for a moment think you will actually DO that. Far more convenient to assume he means what you want him to mean, so you can argue against what you think he said. But there's always hope.

Agree 100% with Lynx. Well said about Dino and his intents.