Obedience REQUIRED

[Freed18]

I understand what you mean by this statement but beware there are those on this forum who are ready to pounce by suggesting that you are attempting to "earn" your salvation.

To them this is all it takes to label someone a "works-salvationist".

Mailmandan is licking his chops about now.

Frankly speaking, I don't care.
As the only works ever written agaisnt were the works of the Law, I have done nothing to fit the anti-works profile.

 

[Freed18]

Yep, Jesus said in John 10:30 - “I and my Father are one”
He also said "I came forth from the Father" in John 16:28, so God and His Word cannot be separated.

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.



Which is why they don't resist temptation. They just get jiggy with it and sin!
Then make excuses for being in sin as though it's not their fault

Just keep praying that they will eventually open their eyes to the truth that can make them free. (John 8:32-34)

 

[Freed18]

Freed18,
your explicit claim that your salvation is up to you is a complete denial of Scripture and confirms exactly what I have been saying about you - that you completely reject Jesus Christ as THE Savior, which up to now, you have denied.

No, it doesn't.
By accepting all that God provided for my salvtion, I also accept the reponsibility for my actions.
Don't you accept responsibility for your actions ?

By claiming that God only made salvation available and that the final outcome depends on your own willpower and actions on judgment day, you are openly admitting that you are relying on yourself as savior, not on Jesus Christ.

Oh, I see your perspective.
You don't equate faith with action.
I believe a man can remain true to God, by faith in Christ.

However, Matthew 1:21 states flatly that He shall save His people from their sins - it is unconditional and not left open that man can achieve it.

Doesn't that mean then, that sinners are not saved ?
We are then, in agreement.
God opened the door to salvtion, and the sinners have rejected it.

As I have said to you repeatedly, you demonstrate that do not believe Jesus Christ is THE Savior, even though Scripture beyond question, says that He is. Anway, I am glad to see that you've finally decided to come clean and place your cards on the table thereby ending the need for any further debate.

I am glad we are in agreement that the sinners are not of God.

 

[Freed18]

Freed18,
your explicit claim that your salvation is up to you is a complete denial of Scripture and confirms exactly what I have been saying about you - that you completely reject Jesus Christ as THE Savior, which up to now, you have denied.

Isn't our salvation dependent on accepting Christ ?
Isn't that choice ours to make ?

By claiming that God only made salvation available and that the final outcome depends on your own willpower and actions on judgment day, you are openly admitting that you are relying on yourself as savior, not on Jesus Christ.

Not at all.
Christ in me is doing the work.
Like Paul in Gal2:20..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Christ made salvation available to you.
Didn't you accept it ?
That doesn't lessen what Jesus did at all.

However, Matthew 1:21 states flatly that He shall save His people from their sins - it is unconditional and not left open that man can achieve it.

It is conditional !
We have to accept Jesus as our Lord for our salvation to come to fruition.

As I have said to you repeatedly, you demonstrate that do not believe Jesus Christ is THE Savior, even though Scripture beyond question, says that He is. Anway, I am glad to see that you've finally decided to come clean and place your cards on the table thereby ending the need for any further debate.

God won't save those who don't want to be saved.
We must do our part too, in recognizing the Giver, as well as accepting the conditions of our salvation.
Those conditions ?
Love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
And love our neighbors as we love ourselvs.

 

[Freed18]

Yes you do and your not saved by "these" works (works of the law) but saved by "those" works (good works)) argument is bogus and still culminates in salvation b obedience/works.

I find it odd that you don't think that obeying God is necesary to be saved.

I simply pointed out that when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good works from the law. (Exodus 20:1-17; Leviticus 19:18; Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37-40)

Define 'moral aspects of the Law', please.

Is loving our neighbor as ourselves by giving them things which are needed for the body (James 2:15-16) considered a good work?

Sure.

Is loving our neighbor as ourselves excluded from the law of Moses?

No, and in fact is the culmination of the Law.

Why don't you explain to me which good works that a Christian could accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments (Matthew 22:37-40) which are found in the law of Moses. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

Can't think of a thing.

Not at all because John is not teaching sinless perfection. It's about the direction of our walk and not the perfection of our walk.

I can't agree.
Why walk in a direction that is unachievable ?

You error by interpreting 1 John 1:6-9 through the lens of sinless perfection.

How can a man walk in the light-God, and darkness-sin, at the same time ?
John is writing to the church about two very different kinds of walk and people.

We are either sinners or saints in the eyes of God based on our salvation or lack of salvation status.

I agree.

There are no non-sinners who never sin. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10)

Then there are none who will be saved.
But I know that some folks walk in the light, and have had all theirpast sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
If they continue on in the light, they will be saved on the day of judgement.

So, now you admit there is a moral aspect of the law.

Again, define moral aspect of the Law.
I am assuming you mean the ten commandments.

You still cannot dissect the moral aspect of the law from the law of Moses

Define moral aspects of the Law, please.

Sinners become saints through faith in Jesus Christ and not through sinless perfection.

Do you not belive that Jesus has the power to make us perfectly obedient ?

So, you believe that you will be saved based on the merits of perfectly obeying the ten commandments, and that's not salvation by works?

That is not salvation by the works of the Law that Paul wrote against.
Will we not be judged on the last day for our actions done on earth ?
You write as though we won't be.

 

[Freed18]

Your implication was that BOTH repentance AND baptism are for (in order to obtain) the remission of sins. My point is if that's the case then what happened to baptism in (Luke 24:47; And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Baptism is the means of the remission of sins.

Acts 3:19; Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Baptism is part and parcel of being converted.

5:31; Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Baptism is the means of sin's forgiveness.

10:43; To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is th means of sin's forgiveness.

11:17, Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Baptism was Peter's very next action.

18; When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

This was the Jew's reponse to Peter's rehashing of the events at Cornelius' home.

13:38-39; Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins and repentance from sin would have been the next things spoken of to the believing folks at Antioch in Pisidia.

15:7-9; Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins wasn't the topic of Paul's oratory.
Forcing Gentiles to keep the Law was the topic...primarily, circumcion.

26:18)? To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

The mechanics of salvtion weren't the topic of Paul's defense before king Agrippa.

You you can try and sugarcoat it all you want but you still teach salvation by works.

Not the works of the Law that Paul wrote against.
If a man wants to be saved, he is required to do certain things.
Initially, hearing and believing.
Holks will then either turn from sin and get baptized, or they will try to defnd their rebellion and leave.

Believers have been washed, sanctified and justified. (1 Corinthians 6:11) That is not a polluted temple. Just because believers are born again does not mean that our fresh has been resurrected.

Believers, yes.
Posers, no.

These Gentiles spoke in tongues which confirmed to the Jews that God had accepted them. Keep in mind that these Gentiles believed, received the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, along with the spiritual gift of tongues (spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - (1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)

In regard to  calling on the name of the Lord, Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary makes not of the importance of the Greek in Ananias' statement. When Ananias tells Paul to "arise, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord," the tense of the last command is literally "having called" (aorist middle participle). "Calling on [epikalesamenos] --- 'having (that is, after having) called on,' referring the confession of Christ which preceded baptism." [Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, vol. 3 pg. 160].

Kenneth Wuest picks up on this Greek nuance and translates the verse as follows: "And now, why are you delaying? Having arisen, be baptized and wash away your sins, having previously called upon His Name." (Acts 22:16, Wuest's Expanded NT).

The Spirit, Jesus' baptism and his cross shed at His crucifixion all bear witness and agree. What did I divide?

I will agree with Peter after considering everything Peter had to say instead of what you have been taught about your one pet verse.

I already thoroughly covered Acts 2:38 in post #550.

Paul did not merely limit works merely to the ceremonial aspect of the law but includes works in general. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

Repentance is a change of mind which precedes salvation through faith in Christ. (Acts 20:21) Two sides to the same coin. You seem to erroneously place repentance after faith and redefine it as sinless perfection. Faith in Christ unto salvation actually "precedes" water baptism.

If you turn form sinning, you are a non-sinner.

 

[carbunculus]

Isn't our salvation dependent on accepting Christ ?
Isn't that choice ours to make ?

Not at all.
Christ in me is doing the work.
Like Paul in Gal2:20..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Christ made salvation available to you.
Didn't you accept it ?
That doesn't lessen what Jesus did at all.

It is conditional !
We have to accept Jesus as our Lord for our salvation to come to fruition.

God won't save those who don't want to be saved.
We must do our part too, in recognizing the Giver, as well as accepting the conditions of our salvation.
Those conditions ?
Love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
And love our neighbors as we love ourselvs.

Again I'm giving you another chance to know something important, the acceptance starts with the father first, I've diligently searched the scriptures over this, and scripture is clear on this. scripture is also clear the father seeks first.

All your doing is supporting Catholic doctrine in one way or another. And believe me when I say the catholics have found a thousand different reasons as to how you can be ex communicated from there faith and God over the centuries, one being you must perform works in order to have your grace increased.

With millions of cathlics and Catholicism being more supported than any other denomination, the dispute they cause to people outside of there faith is pretty much wide spread, and so far in this thread I have seen many of there arguments,

The best part is none of you are saying your Catholic, whilst quoting all there arguments.

It's ridiculous, also with baptism and confession of the holy spirit they believe that each person only gets a measure of grace, reason being a person can have sone element of unbelief in there heart or not be completely sincere with confession.

In there works of performance and merit some Catholics will curse anyone who believes other wise.

Many thanks to @amazingrace and @ScooterJackson for there Catholic doctrines

 

[carbunculus]

Well on a better note eat drink and be happy

 

[carbunculus]

Yep, Jesus said in John 10:30 - “I and my Father are one”
He also said "I came forth from the Father" in John 16:28, so God and His Word cannot be separated.

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.



Which is why they don't resist temptation. They just get jiggy with it and sin!
Then make excuses for being in sin as though it's not their fault

Scooter, let me give you a proper bike,

A Kawasaki now I may even give you a piggy back

Now listen scooter as you have an issue here with listening and being easily deflected, the discussion is not whether the father and son are one but whether your both interested in knowing something important, which will or may help you in your Dodgy scooter trails, I do hope @Freed18 is listening.

Now better still the truth can set you free.

Acceptance starts with the father first

Happy scooting