Obedience REQUIRED

[carbunculus]

What other doctrine is there?

It also Scripture!

Mt 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Acts 20:32

And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


1 Peter 4:10

As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.


2 Peter 3:18

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Thks

Why pretend to be Catholic ?

 

[rogerg]

Scooterjackson,
your claim that righteousness and spiritual standing depend on human performance contradicts Scripture. Romans 8:1 clearly states that there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Eternal spiritual security rests entirely on being placed in Christ Jesus—an act God alone performs for His children through His mercy and grace, not by human works. Walking after the Spirit is the outward evidence of a saved and quickened child.
1 John 1:7 states that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Christ’s blood did not purchase a probationary status; it cleared the ledger once for all for those God chose to be covered by His blood. Galatians 6 instructs those already saved, rather than it instructing the spiritually dead how they can earn justification. Sowing to the flesh means trusting in human ability, which produces spiritual corruption; sowing to the Spirit means trusting in Christ as the Savior and is the evidence of the eternal life already given. By making eternal life depend on lifelong human compliance, you turn God’s complete and perfect gift into something conditional and make Christ a co-savior with man rather than the sole Savior declared as such by Scripture. Titus 3:5 explicitly excludes our works of righteousness as being a cause of salvation, and Hebrews 10:14 states that by one offering Christ has perfected forever those who are sanctified.













your claim that righteousness and spiritual standing are dependent upon man's performance, is a denial of what Scripture actually teaches. Romans 8:1 clearly states that there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Eternal spiritual security depends entirely on being placed in Christ Jesus which God alone does for His children through His mercy and grace and not by man's works. Walking after the Spirit is the outward manifestation and evidence of a saved/quickened child.
In 1 John 1:7, the text states the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin. The blood of Christ did not purchase probation: it once and for all cleared the ledger for those so chosen by God to be covered by His blood. Further, Galatians 6 is edification to those already saved, not rules directed to a spiritually dead corpse on how they can earn justification. Sowing to the flesh means trusting in the flesh and which brings spiritual corruption. Instead, trusting in Christ as THE Savior is sowing to the Spirit and is manifested by already having been given eternal life. By making eternal life depend on your own lifelong compliance you make God's completed, perfect gift conditional. This makes Christ into a co-savior with man, not as THE sole Savior as Scripture clearly tells us He is. Titus 3:5 explicitly rules out any of our works of righteousness for salvation. Hebrews 10:14 states that by one offering Christ has perfected forever them that are sanctified.

@ScooterJackson

Sorry, I accidently duplicated my post - they're a little different but not much. please ignore the last one - I tried to refine it for clarity with the first one but forgot to delete the second one - sorry

 

[rogerg]

eternal life refers to the life of grace


rom 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

rom 5:1-2

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 12:28
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

(life of grace not eternal salvation)

stand in grace!
fall in sin!

1 Jn 1:6-7

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1) we do not have eternal salvation

Mk 10:30 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 rev 2:10

2) we have the grace of justification

Romans 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:2

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Stand in grace not salvation)

Thks

Amazingrace,
you are dumping lists of scripture references without including your specific interpretation of their meaning, leaving your arguments completely open-ended. Before I reply to any individual verses, you need to provide your exact written interpretation for each verse you listed. Please put your specific definitions on the record first for me to reply to, and then we can proceed.

---

 

[rogerg]

The initial gift of grace is free and cannot be earned or deserved

The increase and perseverance of grace we must participate in Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ to bear Fruit, mt 7:14 (morally) narrow road leads to life mt 10:22 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Thks

Amazingrace,
as with your prior post, you are dumping lists of scripture references without including your specific interpretation of their meaning, leaving your arguments completely open-ended. Before I reply to any individual verses from either of your posts, please provide your exact written interpretation for each verse you listed. Please include your specific definitions on the record first for me to reply to, and then we can proceed.

 

[rogerg]

So in your understanding Jn 10:10 refers to salvation?

I have come to give salvation and salvation more abundantly.

When it refers to the life of grace!

Jn 1:16 of His fullness (divinity) we have all received, GRACE FOR GRACE!

THKS

Amazingrace,
you are trying to separate Christ's life from salvation to protect your conditions-based system, but John 10:28 clearly defines what that life is: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." If the life Christ gives can end in perishing, then it is not eternal life. If it is eternal life (which it is), then it is salvation

 

[ScooterJackson]

You will never get used to it.

I won't be accepting or following their eternal security doctrines much less get used to it.

How long have you been repentant; a non-sinner ?

Actually I knew right when I got born again that one cannot continue in sin and still be saved.
Instinctively from the start I knew this was wrong. Later the Lord showed me from scripture that eternal security doctrine is not biblical.

 

[rogerg]

I do not believe salvation will be forced on anyone.
When I had the chance to start serving God, I rejected it.
But later, in the midst of my misery, it was again offered to me, and I accepted it and both of its rquirements.

Freed18,
you have said nothing new. As I told you yesterday, you have placed your cards face-up on the table and thereby ended all debate. Your latest statement that you accepted salvation and fulfilled its requirements is simply another open admission that you rely on yourself as your own savior. You do not believe that Jesus Christ is THE Savior.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Does that mean you don't think obeying God is necessary for salvation ?

Of course the reformed followers will claim being obedient is trying to earn salvation.
They always say that. Must be an internal memo the reformed send to one another on this.

And my behavior glorifies Him and our Father.

Yep, Jesus indicated this:
Luke 6:46 - Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

So, the ten commandments of the OT...or the two commandments of Jesus Christ ?

9 of the 10 commandments are found in the New Covenant under the Law of Christ.
If you need me to post these passages just let me know.

The disobedient will suffer eternally, for their hate of God.

Seems to be a lot of followers of annihilationism lurking around.
They'll probably pounce on you for this statement.

 

[amazingrace]

That is a golden point.

We have eternal life. Nothing can separate us from Him. We are born of imperishable seed.


The "if's' are for reign,rank,rewards and discipline.

We have eternal life as believers and we can have life abundantly in this present age IF we follow Him. Salvation is locked and loaded, life abundantly is up to us.

Matt 7:14~~For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Please clarify

Do we have eternal life or the narrow road leads to life?

Do we have eternal salvation now or eternal life? (the life of grace)

Can we lose salvation?

Can we lose grace?

Thks

 

[ScooterJackson]

have never seen anyone claim they can do whatever they want and be saved without any consequences

Yeah they claim they'll still go to Heaven but God will put some bad things on them while they are still here on earth but in the end they claim they will still go to Heaven even if they live in sin.

That @Genez fellow can fill you in on these false and unbiblical claims that the wages of sin for Christians is not death but Christians will be rewarded with Heaven if they live in sin.

 

[carbunculus]

Please clarify

Do we have eternal life or the narrow road leads to life?

Do we have eternal salvation now or eternal life? (the life of grace)

Can we lose salvation?

Can we lose grace?

Thks

Few find it because because back then the population wasn't as great but honestly I'm not sure if you take into this in to account
As it may be only a few on there own accord but not a few with the lord's help, what ys think batman

But then again you probably haven't, and you'll say a few means a few.

Do yourself a favour work out your own salvation before others and you clearly need help

 

[rogerg]

Eph 2 has nothing to do with those who are saved!

Where you saved 2000 yrs ago?

It is written in past tense, already accomplished, and refers to part of the process of salvation, cos it says saved, it refers to the general redemption accomplished by the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, not your microscopic / split second act of "faith alone"!

The atonement or redemption by which Christ brings us to life in grace!

Romans 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:2

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Stand in grace not salvation)

Grace provides union with God

Isa 53
PS 51
PS 23

Lk 8:15
Jn 15:1-6
Acts 9:4
Eph 5:32
2 cor 8:9

AMEN?

Amazingrace,
yes, I was saved two thousand years ago on the cross because that is exactly where Jesus Christ finished the transaction and paid the debt in full for ALL of His elect children - with nothing further required of them for salvation. Further, Ephesians 1:4 states clearly that He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world. For those who are saved, there salvation was decreed by God from eternity past and not dependent upon human performance. Your explicit claim that Ephesians 2 is not about those saved is a clear denial of the verses. Ephesians 2:8 states: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." It describes a past completed action that provides permanent present spiritual security; it is not an invitation dependent on man's lifelong actions.
By claiming that the cross only provided general redemption that man must maintain by his own compliance in order to avoid falling out of grace, you are making a perfectly completed gift conditional. This makes Christ a co-savior along with man and Christ not the sole Savior that Scripture clearly tells us He is.

As I have already stated multiple times, you are dumping random lists of verses without putting down your own written interpretations of them on the record. Provide your exact written definition for every single passage you listed across your posts, and then we can proceed.

 

[carbunculus]

Of course the reformed followers will claim being obedient is trying to earn salvation.
They always say that. Must be an internal memo the reformed send to one another on this.



Yep, Jesus indicated this:
Luke 6:46 - Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?



9 of the 10 commandments are found in the New Covenant under the Law of Christ.
If you need me to post these passages just let me know.



Seems to be a lot of followers of annihilationism lurking and.
They'll probably pounce on you for this statement.

Could you stop thinking for me ?

I do have my own mind, and could you stop randomly accusing me of untruths along with your in coherent buddy

 

[mailmandan]

Few find it because because back then the population wasn't as great

Few find it because few are trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (John 3:18; 10:9; 14:6) Sadly, many are trusting in works for salvation. Either we are trusting 100% in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or else we are 100% lost. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

 

[carbunculus]

Few find it because few are trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (John 3:18; 10:9; 14:6) Sadly, many are trusting in works for salvation. Either we are trusting 100% in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or else we are 100% lost. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

That's what I said if you look back , I said few find it on there own, but few don't find it with the lord's help which means exactly what you just put, which is those who trust in the lord.

No need to warn me

 

[ScooterJackson]

Do we have eternal life or the narrow road leads to life?

You don't want to pick a fight with Jesus and challenge whether He spook Truth or not.

Matthew 7:13,14 - Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to death, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Salvation can only be found abiding in Christ. He is the narrow road that leads to life.
Walking after the Spirit is abiding in Christ on the narrow road while walking after the flesh is abiding in the broad way that leads to death

Few find it because because back then the population wasn't as great but honestly I'm not sure if you take into this in to account
As it may be only a few on there own accord but not a few with the lord's help, what ys think batman

But then again you probably haven't, and you'll say a few means a few.

Do yourself a favour work out your own salvation before others and you clearly need help

Jesus never mentioned anything about back then so let's not read in to scripture something it does not say

 

[carbunculus]

Yeah they claim they'll still go to Heaven but God will put some bad things on them while they are still here on earth but in the end they claim they will still go to Heaven even if they live in sin.

That @Genez fellow can fill you in on these false and unbiblical claims that the wages of sin for Christians is not death but Christians will be rewarded with Heaven if they live in sin.

You know when you get the thought they in your head, just make sure it's your thought next time

 

[carbunculus]

You don't want to pick a fight with Jesus and challenge whether He spook Truth or not.

Matthew 7:13,14 - Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to death, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Salvation can only be found abiding in Christ. He is the narrow road that leads to life.
Walking after the Spirit is abiding in Christ on the narrow road while walking after the flesh is abiding in the broad way that leads to death



Jesus never mentioned anything about back then so let's not read in to scripture something it does not say

Listen scooter, do yourself a favour and grow up

 

[mailmandan]

That's what I said if you look back , I said few find it on there own, but few don't find it with the lord's help which means exactly what you just put, which is those who trust in the lord.

No need to warn me

The warning was a general warning and was not directed specifically at you.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Could you stop thinking for me ?

I haven't climbed inside your brain once to tell you what to think.
We should all be thinking like Jesus, seeing things from His point of view.

1 Corinthians 2:12-16
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.