Obedience REQUIRED

[mailmandan]

100% never shows up in Scripture!

The Scripture I cited proves otherwise.

Jn 15:1=6 union with Christ bears fruit!

Of course, it does, which is a spiritual and vital connection with Christ as the vine, unlike a fruitless branch which shows outward connection without inward life. False professors may appear attached for a season, but no fruit exposes no life.

Not faith alone!

It's still faith in Jesus Christ alone that saves. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2;8,9) Not faith in works.

Lk 8:15 ;But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Only a good tree bears good fruit. (Matthew 7:17) to bring fourth fruit with patience is the evidence of salvation, but not the cause of it.

Not faith alone!

It's still faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation that saves. Your faith is in works.

 

[rogerg]

Grace not salvation!

Salvation cannot be lost grace ca. Be lost

Explain these please

Eph 5:2-6 children of disobedience shall not inherit the kingdom of God
gal 5:1-4 fallen from grace
gal 5:19-21 shall not inherit the kingdom of God
gal 6:7-8 sow and reap
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20 shall not inherit the kingdom of God
1 tim 5:12 lost faith
Hebrews 6:4-6 fall away
rev 21:8 sin buys the lake of fire
rev 21:27 sin keeps us out of heaven
rom 8:1 gace lost by sin
gal 5:4 can fall from grace
1 cor 15:10 can have grace in vain
2 cor 4:7 treasure (grace) in earthen vessels
1 Jn 3:15 no life (grace)
Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? NOTHING!
2 Peter 1:10 diligence to make your calling and election sure
Luke 15:24 my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

Thks

Amazingrace, as I explicitly told you in my previous posts, because you do not include your specific written explanation of these verses, leaving them completely open-ended, I will not address them. Putting a few brief words or phrases after a verse is not an explanation. Put your specific explanations and mechanics and how they support your supposition in a post first for me to reply to, and then we can proceed.

 

[rogerg]

"It is finished" refers to the Passover sacrifice see Jn 1:29 &
1 cor 5:6=8

We participate with Christ

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

What lacking in the afflictions of Christ? Our participation!

That's why He says:

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

And
Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

HIS SAKE IS THE SALVATION OF SOULS!

Thks

Amazingrace,
your claim that Christ's afflictions were lacking and require human participation to finish salvation is a denial of Scripture. You distort Colossians 1:24, Luke 9:23, and Philippians 1:29. Paul does not associate either of those to becoming saved or remaining saved. That is an incorrect assumption on your part that you impose upon those verses. By your posts you make it obvious that you either don't understand what a Savior is, or what He did/does, or both. When Jesus declared "It is finished" in John 19:30, He used the word Tetelestai, which is a legal term that means Paid in Full. The debt was completely wiped out by Him alone - all of it - none of it left open.
You completely twist Colossians 1:24. Paul uses the word for ministerial tribulations, never the word for Christ's sacrificial, atoning death. Christ's atoning work was 100% complete at Calvary. The only thing lacking is the temporal task assigned to the true believers to carry that finished message to the world. As I told you before, by claiming that you must suffer and participate to finish what Christ supposedly left behind, you make Christ an incomplete Savior and turn a finished gift into a conditional wage. All who are covered by Christ offering and sacrifice, must and will become saved without exception. It was God' promise and as such, not left up to man to achieve or satisfy

 

[walter549]

In short, we have been saved (past tense) spiritually, our souls are being saved (present tense) and our bodies will be saved (and transformed - future tense).

So you feel you're saved, and You don't have to listen to the rest of the new Testament scriptures?

 

[sawdust]

Our free will can choose sin and unrepentance and domination

So? Are you powerful enough to undo what God has done and make Him break His promise? He has made us alive in Christ. Our sin did not stop Him doing that (thanks be to Christ), what makes you think our sin can stop Him with the rest of His promises.

In sin we fall, in grace we stand!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.


Romans 5:2

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Stand in grace not salvation)

Grace can be lost!

Did you read what I wrote? I already said that grace can be lost. It's why so many Christians are powerless in their walk because they do not believe/understand how powerful, generous, merciful and loving the the Lord is. And I do not say that as a condemnation but coming to know the Lord is what it means to grow up to the full stature of Christ. We are all in different places in our walk with Him and is why Peter urged his listeners to grow in grace and the knowledge (gnosis) of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2Pet.3:18. Grace is not static. Jm.4:6

Are you alive in Christ or not? We have been saved from spiritual death. How do you not understand this is a salvation? It is not a promise to be fulfilled in some future time. If you are still dead in your sin you cannot hope to understand spiritual matters. Jn.3:3 1Cor.2:14

Why do people always read words like "curse" or "damnation" as meaning losing one's salvation when there are so many verses that secure our salvation?

We have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. Can you break God's seal? Can you undo your adoption? Is your will stronger than God's?

Of course we stand in grace for grace is the Lord's will and power working in us to overcome. When we don't stand in grace we are powerless and not in God's will but this does not mean we lose our spiritual life every time we sin and have to be born anew over and over and over again.

If all you are going to do is repeat yourself and not show what I said doesn't mean what I said or answer any of the questions I have asked, this conversation will go nowhere and will be a waste of both our time. Thankyou.

 

[rogerg]

In that case all men must be saved?

Amazingrace,
only God's elect sheep (His eternal children) from eternity past, and only His elect sheep, no others, must and will become saved. You do not seem to understand the nature of Christ's cross. He did not purchase a generic, open-ended probation for all men to fulfill through their own work. Ephesians 1:4 states clearly that He "hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world", with the "us" meaning only His children. The transaction was perfectly finished by Jesus Christ, Savior, for them alone.

 

[sawdust]

So you feel you're saved, and You don't have to listen to the rest of the new Testament scriptures?

I don't "feel" I'm saved, I know I'm saved because the Lord says so in His word as I outlined in my post. If one has no assurance, then one should also question if they have faith because faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of what is not seen and without faith no-one can please God Heb.11:6. Below is the Amplified version to flesh out it's meaning.

Heb.11:1
Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

Maybe it is you who need to listen to the rest of the New Testament.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Let me know when you have built up the strength to break God's seal and evict the Holy Spirit.

 

[walter549]

I don't "feel" I'm saved, I know I'm saved because the Lord says so in His word as I outlined in my post. If one has no assurance, then one should also question if they have faith because faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of what is not seen and without faith no-one can please God Heb.11:6. Below is the Amplified version to flesh out it's meaning.

Heb.11:1
Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

Maybe it is you who need to listen to the rest of the New Testament.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Let me know when you have built up the strength to break God's seal and evict the Holy Spirit.

So what do you do with all the scriptures that talk about obedience, observance of Jesus commands, those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.” and faith without works is dead?

For me every single scripture is important.