Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Grandpa]

So what happens when you believe in Christ, but don't do his will?

That's an impossibility.

Just like James says, faith without works is dead.

Didn't you just post that verse? Don't you understand it?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Sorry to interrupt the PeterJ vs. EG quarrel...
...thought this might be pertinent:

Matthew 18:15-17 (ESV)


If Your Brother Sins Against You

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.​

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Does Jesus set you free from sin if you obey Him? Yes

No; Jesus sets us free when we believe Him.

I will pray for you PeterJans.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

EG obviously will not agree with my point of view.

...

So ofcourse we are never going to "get on" or agree, because this is just another heresy.

Interestingly enough, if one reads your quote literally (the entire post--not just what I've highlighted here)...

...you said your own point of view is heresy.

I will pray for you, PeterJans.

 

[Blain]

well I firmly believe he was telling you if you read the thread, you would find he was right.

But I will give you that, I know you try to be honest. and I thank you once again.

If that is true then I think he and anyone else who comes into the bdf with such a heart needs to reconsider their motives for being here.
If we come in here with the wrong motives and reasons in our hearts all we will do is continue in an on going never ending war with each other. Personally and this is just my own reason I come here with no interest in proving my views and beliefs right I have no doubt I have doctrines and beliefs that are wrong I have no doubt that i has said things that I should be corrected on i have no doubt I have been less than Love, But I come to the bdf to learn to grow in faith as a believer and a person to connect with others to know and see to show and to learn what love really is what means to be a Christian to be strong.

As I said my blade is not to cut down

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I still think the issue which caused all of this misunderstanding between the two individuals is a language barrier; they're both using English--but one of the two's English is very difficult to understand. I'll leave it to the readers to decide which makes sense and which lacks clarity.

And I'll leave it to God to decide who's His and who's not.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That's an impossibility.

Just like James says, faith without works is dead.

Didn't you just post that verse? Don't you understand it?

I think we could take a tour around the world and find millions of people who believe in Christ and are not doing his will.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If that is true then I think he and anyone else who comes into the bdf with such a heart needs to reconsider their motives for being here.
If we come in here with the wrong motives and reasons in our hearts all we will do is continue in an on going never ending war with each other. Personally and this is just my own reason I come here with no interest in proving my views and beliefs right I have no doubt I have doctrines and beliefs that are wrong I have no doubt that i has said things that I should be corrected on i have no doubt I have been less than Love, But I come to the bdf to learn to grow in faith as a believer and a person to connect with others to know and see to show and to learn what love really is what means to be a Christian to be strong.

As I said my blade is not to cut down

Love it bro.. I came for the same reason. And I have learned alot in here, Even changed my vew on a few things, or at least am questioning it (like pre-trib)

it is one thing to disagree, I have no problem with that.. But when someone comes in and starts lieing about what others believe, and continues to deny he is doing it, and just goes off on long tangents continuing to blame everyone else.

Well like You said (and I asked him that along time ago when we first started to discuss things) whyis he or she here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I still think the issue which caused all of this misunderstanding between the two individuals is a language barrier; they're both using English--but one of the two's English is very difficult to understand. I'll leave it to the readers to decide which makes sense and which lacks clarity.

And I'll leave it to God to decide who's His and who's not.

No my friend, that is not the issue at all.

The issue is the gospel.

The gospel has one language, Not two.

I asked him about his gospel. and questioned it, Ever since I guess had the nerve to do that, A war has ensued..

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I think we could take a tour around the world and find millions of people who believe in Christ and are not doing his will.

One might say: They never believed.

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Matt 7:22-23)​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think we could take a tour around the world and find millions of people who believe in Christ and are not doing his will.

Define "his will"

because how one defines a person as doing Gods will, will define how one should respond..

 

[Blain]

Love it bro.. I came for the same reason. And I have learned alot in here, Even changed my vew on a few things, or at least am questioning it (like pre-trib)

it is one thing to disagree, I have no problem with that.. But when someone comes in and starts lieing about what others believe, and continues to deny he is doing it, and just goes off on long tangents continuing to blame everyone else.

Well like You said (and I asked him that along time ago when we first started to discuss things) whyis he or she here.

A mindset like that will give one an amazingly deep learning and understanding of God and his realm. I used to be a very hard core pretrib believer and boy I was stubborn I refused to listen to anyone and i was on fire to prove my views and beliefs right.
But by being humbled and taught love by God I began to question my views and beliefs and seek the truth of them even if it turns out I was wrong. As of now I no longer have a firm view or stance on the rapture and it's timing whether that be pretrib prewrath mid or post trib. However because of this I am able to look at all of these different beliefs of the rapture form a spectator view so I can see and understand in a way that I never could having a firm and written in stone view and belief

 

[Nikki84]

I believe that sin in one's life should be addressed. Forgiveness saught and repairing damage done by that sin whenever possible . This can be a daily process, or weekly or monthly.

I also believe sin creates distance between the Father and I

 

[Blain]

No my friend, that is not the issue at all.

The issue is the gospel.

The gospel has one language, Not two.

I asked him about his gospel. and questioned it, Ever since I guess had the nerve to do that, A war has ensued..

This war will not have a good ending, I can only see both ppl leaving it with major scars and bruises and changing in a bad way.
What both ppl do is their choice but what I would do is be the first to humbly bow out. Many times ppl have gone to war with me it was brutal but it wasn't until; I humbly bowed out even if they continued to speak badly of me that my heart was filled with life again and I found greater joy in the Lord.

These wars that ensue here in the bdf I haven't ever once seen good come from them but when one makes the choice of refusing to raise their blade anymore and forget about it and take a break I have seen amazing things happen even befriending the person I was at war with. But someone has to take that action for the war to end

 

[PeterJens]

Whatever dude, You do not make a whole thread trying to condemn another user, and single him out unless you get mad.

Get over yourself. I was answering the general proposition that talking about obedience and righteousness means you are a legalist. It also appears though you deny this, that you do not want to obey Jesus commands or walk in righteousness as we would describe it.

You actually confessed as much in your testimony that it was impossible, and you could not be a hypocrite.
So I do not expect you to jump up and say, yes I believe we should do that.

So what is meant in the words are two different things. Now saying I am lying is not a correct description.
What you are claiming is you actually represent something different than I am saying.

That is fine by me, but your descriptions tend to confirm my conclusions and not deny them. It is like you have a blind spot, you mean obedience like this but I mean it like that, but it is the same thing. That is just not being honest.

 

[ember]

Not a single "grace believer" refuted doing this because, well, that's what they do. Funny thing is this is a verbatim quote by Irenaeus describing how the gnostics treated the Christians. I just replaced gnostics with "Grace Believers".

I enjoy interacting with you folks. You have taught me so much.

so then you are classifying yourself as a NOT a grace believer?

it seems you are attempting to create two classes of Christian

ALL Christians need are saved by G R A C E

Why would you seem to stand off as though grace was beneath you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A mindset like that will give one an amazingly deep learning and understanding of God and his realm. I used to be a very hard core pretrib believer and boy I was stubborn I refused to listen to anyone and i was on fire to prove my views and beliefs right.
But by being humbled and taught love by God I began to question my views and beliefs and seek the truth of them even if it turns out I was wrong. As of now I no longer have a firm view or stance on the rapture and it's timing whether that be pretrib prewrath mid or post trib. However because of this I am able to look at all of these different beliefs of the rapture form a spectator view so I can see and understand in a way that I never could having a firm and written in stone view and belief

Same here,, And it is because of people in here, Although I still can not see post trib view,, I would not condemn a person who had that view, I may discuss hard, But never condemn.. and am open to find one day I may be wrong in even that

 

[ember]

I believe that sin in one's life should be addressed. Forgiveness saught and repairing damage done by that sin whenever possible . This can be a daily process, or weekly or monthly.

that's what grace is for!!!

without the grace of God, we would never have forgiveness!

I make it a daily,,,nay, hourly often enough, oh what am I saying? it is an 'as it happens' event, to ask forgiveness and stay in my Father's arms where I am safe

see, often enough people think they have TO DO something to get back in God's grace

It's always available...we just have to grab it and run with it...RUN THE RACE!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe that sin in one's life should be addressed. Forgiveness saught and repairing damage done by that sin whenever possible . This can be a daily process, or weekly or monthly.

I agree

Not only between each person and God. But each person should have a discipline relationship with a close brother or sister where they can confess their sins to each other.

It is to easy to hide sins and not have someone to confess those sins too.

Of course, if your going to be judged because of sin and not loved in grace and helped. Well then you will never confess to anyone.

 

[Blain]

so then you are classifying yourself as a NOT a grace believer?

it seems you are attempting to create two classes of Christian

ALL Christians need are saved by G R A C E

Why would you seem to stand off as though grace was beneath you?

That isn't wasn't what he was saying, he wasn't saying he was not a grace believer he was saying a certain type of grace believers didn't confront it