Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[Grace777x70]

Define "his will"

because how one defines a person as doing Gods will, will define how one should respond..

That is the $64,000 question...because it is the will of God that we obey authorities...so if anyone was speeding his car and going over the speed limit...he would not be doing the will of God....in this theology....he would not go to heaven if he crashed his car and died...

There are a few things like this that are the "known will of God"...like pray without ceasing....rejoicing always....in everything give thanks....what happens if we are sad for a few days and then die of a heart attack...do we still go to hell and not heaven because of our failure to "do the will of God?"

There must be something else to this "doing the will of God"...of course grace believers know the truth of "doing the will of God"..He's called Jesus our righteousness.....and we walk out who we are in Him now...because we believe in Him and what He has done in His finished work for us.

We are called believers for a reason.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This war will not have a good ending, I can only see both ppl leaving it with major scars and bruises and changing in a bad way.
What both ppl do is their choice but what I would do is be the first to humbly bow out. Many times ppl have gone to war with me it was brutal but it wasn't until; I humbly bowed out even if they continued to speak badly of me that my heart was filled with life again and I found greater joy in the Lord.

These wars that ensue here in the bdf I haven't ever once seen good come from them but when one makes the choice of refusing to raise their blade anymore and forget about it and take a break I have seen amazing things happen even befriending the person I was at war with. But someone has to take that action for the war to end

It is his war.. He is the one who will not leave it alone,

Your right, there is no easy answer, or will not be a nice ending,, If one refuses to see there error (and this includes me) then there can never be a resolution.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Get over yourself. I was answering the general proposition that talking about obedience and righteousness means you are a legalist. It also appears though you deny this, that you do not want to obey Jesus commands or walk in righteousness as we would describe it.

The reason I am writing this is in response to EG and his claim I am slandering his group.

Get over myself? You were not directing this to me??

 

[ember]

Sorry to interrupt the PeterJ vs. EG quarrel...
...thought this might be pertinent:

Matthew 18:15-17 (ESV)


If Your Brother Sins Against You

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.​

apparently, I missed 'the main event'...must have been a blackout in my area

however, I am sadly way too familiar with the arguments being presented by folks who, while denying a works based salvation, continue to explain that if we do not do works, then we are not saved

the next step after a person refuses to listen and repent, is what? excommunication? we can't do that here...a few people we call moderators have that ability, but no super powers here LOL!

I think the CC 'church' pretty much knows.

 

[Blain]

It is his war.. He is the one who will not leave it alone,

Your right, there is no easy answer, or will not be a nice ending,, If one refuses to see there error (and this includes me) then there can never be a resolution.

I guess in a way I have been a part of this war between you two although the focus is mainly you two i may have had a hand in making this war worse. Eg I am going to leave this war here if peter continues or if you continue I won't know about it i have to seek out God's heart in my own way and I can tell you it's not this way

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess in a way I have been a part of this war between you two although the focus is mainly you two i may have had a hand in making this war worse. Eg I am going to leave this war here if peter continues or if you continue I won't know about it i have to seek out God's heart in my own way and I can tell you it's not this way

Brother if you think I am out of line, Your always welcome and encouraged to come to me as a brother. in email or in open.

 

[Nikki84]

Brothers and sisters, its quite possible we believe in the same Grace!!!! Maybe the question is how that Grace is administered

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess in a way I have been a part of this war between you two although the focus is mainly you two i may have had a hand in making this war worse. Eg I am going to leave this war here if peter continues or if you continue I won't know about it i have to seek out God's heart in my own way and I can tell you it's not this way

and ps. You were never part of the war.

The war started when he went after my brothers and sisters with lies, and I confronted him about those lies.

 

[PeterJens]

No; Jesus sets us free when we believe Him.
I will pray for you PeterJans.

Interesting. Jesus sets us free from the slavery of sin. Now this is not automatic. I have met many christians who are still bound in habitual sin. The idea I was trying to get across is by following Jesus things change in our hearts, new things grow, old attachments disappear. Now Jesus provides the healing, the guidance and the method. If belief was enough no one would suffer or have to walk.

Jesus took the penalty for sin, we have forgiveness for our sins, but the rest is unclear.

EG testified that he was a christian, yet was bound into sin which he could not be free from.
Many testify sin still has a hold on them, habits or attitudes they repeat daily but just live with and do not address.

So saying Jesus set us free appears not be automatically true, or these people are not actually following Jesus?

 

[PeterJens]

Interestingly enough, if one reads your quote literally (the entire post--not just what I've highlighted here)...
...you said your own point of view is heresy.
I will pray for you, PeterJans.

I may have implied in english the wrong way round. I think extreme grace is heresy. I hope that helps.

 

[Blain]

Brothers and sisters, its quite possible we believe in the same Grace!!!! Maybe the question is how that Grace is administered

We all believe in grace but we seem to have vastly different views ideas and understanding of grace and what it is. the issue with views and interpretations is that it turns something as simple and wonderful as grace into something very complicated

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Brothers and sisters, its quite possible we believe in the same Grace!!!! Maybe the question is how that Grace is administered

grace is mercy is free.

It can never be earned, Someone who claims it can be earned, rejects grace, and makes it works..

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I may have implied in english the wrong way round. I think extreme grace is heresy. I hope that helps.

I think legalism is heresy.

there you go..

we admit we are not brothers..

 

[ember]

Brothers and sisters, its quite possible we believe in the same Grace!!!! Maybe the question is how that Grace is administered

well, apart from the grace of God, without which none of us would be here, how do you see this> that is, maybe answer your own question please?

we also have grace to be civil even if we disagree...that is the bond of peace...we must each apply it

 

[PeterJens]

Dear readers, I do not go after people, as EG puts it.

He accuses me of lying all the time. Obviously his lying is not what I call lying.
Now the group he belongs to wishes to hide its true theology and beliefs under the guise of christian words, but it is very different. Once you take away large sections of the new testament as applicable to christians, you are creating a different faith. Now like another religion I know too well, they say, we are not ignoring this scripture, it does not address us.

The side step is simple. Morality, purity, a good heart, walking in righteousness are not the issue.
It is accepting you are ok because you believe and nothing else.

Now the argument is about negation. Negation is leaving something out which means you do not regard it as important.
It is easy to defend because there is noting said positively about this ignoring the points, it is just left out.

When you point this out they say you are lying. Not you are right, we do not think it is important, but it is important here for these reasons. So the answered is just slander and insult, not content.

Once you learn this is their strategy they have to answer the negation. Where is righteousness and obedience?

It certainly is not of Jesus's words, because they were before the cross.

On a simple scale do you hold with loving your enemy? It would make sense you do not based on previous responses from others. I do not expect you to answer, because negation is your strategy but it does prove my point.

You are not following Jesus, just a filtered version based on your view of legalism and grace.

 

[ember]

Question: "What is the grace of God?"

Answer: Grace is a constant theme in the Bible, and it culminates in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus (John 1:17). The word translated "grace" in the New Testament comes from the Greek word charis, which means “favor, blessing, or kindness.” We can all extend grace to others; but when the word grace is used in connection with God, it takes on a more powerful meaning. Grace is God choosing to bless us rather than curse us as our sin deserves. It is His benevolence to the undeserving.

Ephesians 2:8 says, "For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves." The only way any of us can enter into a relationship with God is because of His grace toward us. Grace began in the Garden of Eden when God killed an animal to cover the sin of Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21). He could have killed the first humans right then for their disobedience. But rather than destroy them, He chose to make a way for them to be right with Him. That pattern of grace continued throughout the Old Testament when God instituted blood sacrifices as a means to atone for sinful men. It was not the blood of those sacrifices that cleansed sinners; it was the grace of God that forgave those who trusted in Him (Hebrews 10:4; Genesis 15:6).

The apostle Paul began many of his letters with the phrase, "Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 1:7; Ephesians 1:1; 1 Corinthians 1:3). God is the instigator of grace, and it is from Him that all other grace flows.


READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE

 

[Grace777x70]

I move that we just let this thread die as it should. We have already shown the many false accusations the same as we have for all the other "grace vs works" threads.

We have told certain people over 50x times what we grace believers say...and they still say the complete opposite of what is being said. That is a massive deception or they are just being dishonest. Either way - nothing gets accomplished.

I propose we just put out the scriptures that say what we believe when we are falsely accused and then leave it with the Lord.

Why not just take their reviling and leave it in the hands of the Lord? He will guide all of us in the way we are to go in this matter.

If we are not accused of saying that we can sin all we want - we are not preaching the gospel. Paul himself in the book of Romans had to refute this 4 times.

The "works-based" salvationists will always slander those that preach the gospel of the grace of Christ..it's the nature of the beast.

Romans 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.


Just bless them and "shake the dust off our feet from them " and move on in the Lord. Just let them continue to be malice filled and slanderous. We can't change them but we can change how we relate to them. He can deal with them and us as well. He will be faithful to all of us!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear readers, I do not go after people, as EG puts it.

.

well I think the readers saw today, you are not benign truthful.

I will take leave, and do what others are asking me to do and place you on ignore. so I do not have to see these lies anymore.

God bless you, And may God open your eyes..

 

[ember]

people are asking what grace is

well the link I provided is not my personal answer

no one has to wonder or be bewildered

would love to bury this thread...let the dead bury the dead...

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I have met many christians who are still bound in habitual sin.

...

So saying Jesus set us free appears not be automatically true, or these people are not actually following Jesus?

Those who are bound in habitual sin are not Christians, by definition of Christian.

The Truth Will Set You Free - John 8:31-34 (ESV)

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?”​

​

Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.​