Old and New Wine skins

[Soyeong]

Yes, those who cling to or revert to OT doctrine versus those who accept the NT Gospel and cooperate with what the HS teaches.

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, so he should not be interpreted as speaking against following him.

 

[GWH]

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, so he should not be interpreted as speaking against following him.

Some people do not realize that Jesus obeyed the Law of Moses in order to fulfill it and supersede it with His new commandment.
Do you know what that is?

 

[Dino246]

How about the Holy Spirit in New creation or Heart and not The old dead man heartless

While this is a valid application, it does not fit the context of Jesus’ original statement.

 

[TruthDefender]

Mat 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

A person cannot receive the Spirit unless their sins are forgiven and they are a new creature.

I believe this is what this means the new wine representing the Spirit that is given to the saints who are a new creature.

Which the Spirit does not possess the old man but the new man.

Very interesting take!

Personally, I think the new wine represents the new birth. In order for the person to grow and ferment in the Lord, all things old must be put away. In baptism, we are raised from death to life in Him. All things are new.

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes, the enemy creates divisions, but denominations may be merely a matter of preference regarding secondary issues,
such as style of worship or cooperation for missionary endeavors. Denominations who claim to be the only true church are cults.

When denominations censor members from peaceably expressing alternative interpretations to their favoured beliefs, they are doing more than just showing a preference regarding secondary issues. They are forcing people to (haireO) their preferences, if they want to participate in the fellowship as an equal. When members stridently promote their own preferred secondary beliefs in an argumentative angry manner, they are doing more than just expressing a different view. They are demanding others (haireO) to embrace their particular views. Both are needlessly divisive of the body.

 

[PaulThomson]

When denominations censor members from peaceably expressing alternative interpretations to their favoured beliefs, they are doing more than just showing a preference regarding secondary issues. They are forcing people to (haireO) their preferences, if they want to participate in the fellowship as an equal. When members stridently promote their own preferred secondary beliefs in an argumentative angry manner, they are doing more than just expressing a different view. They are demanding others (haireO) to embrace their particular views. Both are needlessly divisive of the body.

That should say --

When denominations censor members from peaceably expressing alternative interpretations to their favoured beliefs, they are doing more than just showing a preference regarding secondary issues. They are forcing people to choose (haireO) their preferences, if they want to participate in the fellowship as an equal. When members stridently promote their own preferred secondary beliefs in an argumentative angry manner, they are doing more than just expressing a different view. They are demanding others choose (haireO) to embrace their particular views. Both are needlessly divisive of the body.

 

[Mem]

That should say --

When denominations censor members from peaceably expressing alternative interpretations to their favoured beliefs, they are doing more than just showing a preference regarding secondary issues. They are forcing people to choose (haireO) their preferences, if they want to participate in the fellowship as an equal. When members stridently promote their own preferred secondary beliefs in an argumentative angry manner, they are doing more than just expressing a different view. They are demanding others choose (haireO) to embrace their particular views. Both are needlessly divisive of the body.

In thinking of using a phrase like, "the laying on of hands," I found myself hesitant to use that phrase in light of what currently comes to mind using similar phrasing. So, I used the term, "touch," to convey a gentler application. And of course, even that has potential to be taken in the wrong intention because even that is often used with a violent connotation, but I thought it taking it too extremes of caution to further clarify the term saying, "soft touch" (i.e., not knocking anyone over).There's probably much more of language that has 'settled in' to the more modern understandings so I'm not surprised if the word "heretic" is among them. Even though it has retained its negative connotation, your definition is illustrative of how the inevitability of that would be perfectly logical consider the personality type of people who 'force' or 'demand' to choose their judgment to be the supreme choice!

Thank you! In offering this tidbit, you've effectively scoured a patch of the rust off the sword of truth!

And, whether intentionally or inadvertently, what a new impression, along with what the OP offered, it provides for me in the realization that the old wineskins are the actual heretics, all along unwilling to accept the new wine. And it is so obvious now how that should be no wonder, it would cause them to burst!

 

[Gideon300]

Yes, the enemy creates divisions, but denominations may be merely a matter of preference regarding secondary issues,
such as style of worship or cooperation for missionary endeavors. Denominations who claim to be the only true church are cults.

Paul rebuked the Corinthians for their divisions. If Christ can be divided then denominations are OK. They are not. God intends for His people to walk in unity. The world mocks us because of our divisions. Personal preferences are far less important than unity. Ephesians 4:13.

 

[Magenta]

The New Covenant was not poured into the old. The old is passing away, and becoming obsolete.

 

[frederickdoc]

I not gonna find my post try show what it is about truely the Holy Spirit No real replys so here enjoy . WW
Jesus indicates that the new message of grace cannot fit within the old, strict religious systems. To hold this "new wine," individuals must become "new wineskins"—meaning their minds and hearts must be transformed by the Holy Spirit to receive the new covenant.

 

[GWH]

That should say --

When denominations censor members from peaceably expressing alternative interpretations to their favoured beliefs, they are doing more than just showing a preference regarding secondary issues. They are forcing people to choose (haireO) their preferences, if they want to participate in the fellowship as an equal. When members stridently promote their own preferred secondary beliefs in an argumentative angry manner, they are doing more than just expressing a different view. They are demanding others choose (haireO) to embrace their particular views. Both are needlessly divisive of the body.

Yes, hence the need for agreement regarding the foundational belief/Christian creed/Gospel.

 

[GWH]

Paul rebuked the Corinthians for their divisions. If Christ can be divided then denominations are OK. They are not. God intends for His people to walk in unity. The world mocks us because of our divisions. Personal preferences are far less important than unity. Ephesians 4:13.

Yes, hence the need for agreement regarding the foundational belief/Christian creed/Gospel.

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes, hence the need for agreement regarding the foundational belief/Christian creed/Gospel.

I Cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5. And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6. After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles
8. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time...
11. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

That’s the essential heart of the gospel.

 

[frederickdoc]

I'm way past believing But yes thanks let em know to Agree.in His Perfect Spirit may em we All be Perfect agree with me Him as The Spirit has spoken in you in word in All truth Alfa Omega

 

[GWH]

I Cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5. And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6. After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles
8. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time...
11. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

That’s the essential heart of the gospel.

Yes, and following that passage Paul admitted that if Christ is not resurrected, faith is useless, because there is no Gospel
(1Cor. 15:14-19), which admittance encourages my faith.

Paul also taught that the faith in Christ's atonement and in Christ as Lord are necessary/essential elements of the Gospel
(Acts 16:31, Rom. 3:21-5:1).

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes, and following that passage Paul admitted that if Christ is not resurrected, faith is useless, because there is no Gospel
(1Cor. 15:14-19), which admittance encourages my faith.

Paul also taught that the faith in Christ's atonement and in Christ as Lord are necessary/essential elements of the Gospel
(Acts 16:31, Rom. 3:21-5:1).

24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us wwho believe in xhim who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 ywho was delivered up for our trespasses and raised zfor our justification.

In those two passages, Paul does not say faith in Christ’s atonement is necessary for salvation. Maybe you can cite a different verse that supports your assertion.

Paul does not say,
24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us wwho believe in xhim who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 and that He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised zfor our justification.

He does there give two reasons for why Jesus died and was raised back to life out from the dead ones. I could be wrong, but Paul does not seem, in those two passages, to be making knowing and believing that "He was delivered for our trespasses and raised for our justification" necessary to become initially saved .

 

[frederickdoc]

They understood much more about the cleaning in water than we ever know! . Look all The people baptised Just because John shouting cry out! The the people understood clean New vessel etc

 

[Blain]

The enemy did not create denominations. Man did. The devil may have advised man to form denominations, because they are pretty much all dominations, where those at the top lord it over those considered below them. Denominations always have their "articles of faith", which always include mandatory opinions on disputable matters that a denomination insists the catechumen must choose (haireO, the Greek root of heresy and heretic) and must deny the mandatory opinions held by other denominations on those same disputable matters. Denying equal membership in my Christian community because they choose to hold different opinions from me on disputable matters is what creates denominations and is, in fact, what heresy really is.

Sorry for the late reply but I wanted to touch on this. Yes man created denominations in action but the enemy was behind it from the start so he created them from the shadows.
The mere fact that it creates division and choas is proof the enemies fingerprints he may not have created them directly but he did created them.

Man does have a will but that will is very easily influenced by the spirit whether that is God or the enemy in fact pretty much everything we do and say has a kind of spirit behind it a whisper in the ear.

But although we can recognize the issue of denominations if we just accept it as that is just how things ae hten we are admitting defeat and perhaps some have no real issues with the matter sme proudly cling to their denomination seeing it as truth and the true way of believing but the issue with that is that no denomination is perfect and many attack or mock or speak ill of the other

 

[frederickdoc]

Sorry for the late reply but I wanted to touch on this. Yes man created denominations in action but the enemy was behind it from the start so he created them from the shadows.
The mere fact that it creates division and choas is proof the enemies fingerprints he may not have created them directly but he did created them.

Man does have a will but that will is very easily influenced by the spirit whether that is God or the enemy in fact pretty much everything we do and say has a kind of spirit behind it a whisper in the ear.

But although we can recognize the issue of denominations if we just accept it as that is just how things ae hten we are admitting defeat and perhaps some have no real issues with the matter sme proudly cling to their denomination seeing it as truth and the true way of believing but the issue with that is that no denomination is perfect and many attack or mock or speak ill of the other

I always hated that
See it ,heard it. tired ez from that in great spirit filled church also.not for me. Another problem Is letting Holy Spirit minister and the people drawn frawn on that .We are to obey do the will of Who? Then forcing the anointing "to me for show" ".shambach nearly broke my nose .I don't stay there I just let u know I read its a truth thats Not the truth coming out from within. The love of The Spirit .All can do pour more Love out Then lets see hearts mented, that a gift to share plus I know it's confirm ask me how know that he told you already Lets let it be as The Lord Has Sooken