Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#22
Could the words It's Impossible be Interpreted as If It were possible because this sounds like only a Christian could fall away and the bible says that the the seed Is Incorruptible so then If a born again person that has all those things listed In Hebrews could fall away wouldn't that mean that the Incorruptible seed could become corrupted?
“Could the words It's Impossible be Interpreted as If It were possible”

I suppose someone could interpret impossible as meaning possible

but I wasn’t actually trying to argue the same argument as happens so often I was just offering a thought to the op that once people are convinced scripture doesn’t really help a lot because they will find some way to reject it like interpreting impossible as meaning possible
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#23
is any one saying he not the anchor of r souls?


“Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:17-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s the fact that whatever he said is certain by the oath “ by myself I have sworn “ that’s the hope that anchors us Gods word is immutable and sure he cannot be wrong or lie “

so if we believe his word we have an anchor knowing it is certain , Jesus then is the forerunner for us and intercessor for us who are coming after by the word and will of God that cannot fail
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#24
not so much really .

I fear it will be misinterpreted it isn’t that we’re saved and then lost because we sin once , we can know what it means if we let in the doctrine of Christ

it’s his word we can’t abandon and his word is beautiful for all who receive it in hope when we see things like “ we all have to stand before the lord and answer for every deed good or bad “

we can no longer measure that by Moses word , we need desperately to hear this type of thing from the eternal judge who is trying so hard to save us that he gave his own precious blood so if we hear and believe this from the judge and don’t fall away from his word

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we often talk about grace and mercy the lord has given us , Jesus was teaching us to be the same way to others who don’t deserve mercy , forgiveness and no ckndemnation .

that’s where this becomes important and true not that we’re sinless perfect people but we who received mercy need to hear about giving mercy so when we stand before the lord we have mercy aplenty
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
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#25
No, you misunderstood. Of course faith is necessary to come into salvation.

Those who insist salvation is not eternal are saying salvation is conditioned on our works, and God's whim. That he might choose to strip it from us if we don't labor and stress in fear we may do something to cause God to take it back.

Personally, I don't believe such arguments are professed by those in Christ. I think they assume the argument just to watch the church make an effort to change their mind.

Christians aren't afraid of losing what Jesus sealed within them for all time.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#27
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."
The problem with the typical OSAS interpretation of I John 2:19 is not so much taking those who "went out" as those who were never in Christ to begin with. In fact, I tend to agree on that point.

The problem is that they take a simple statement by John about some people from his time and setting and then say that is true of all people in all settings.

In no way does I John 2:19 come even close to saying that anyone who leaves a church was never really a believer to begin with.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#28
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.
A major error is to define "eternal life" primarily as "living forever". Eternal life is first all a relationship with Jesus (John 17:3). And if a person does not have a relationship with Jesus then they do not have "eternal life." We must use the Biblical concept of "eternal life" and not our own definition. Thus to say that you can't lose "eternal life" because it would not then be "eternal" makes no sense at all. Eternal life will always be a relationship with Jesus that will last forever. But if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life, and thus you do not have "eternal life."
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#29
Maybe their should be a poll of the Christian Chat community polling whether are not they agree with Once Saved Always Saved.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#30
The problem with the typical OSAS interpretation of I John 2:19 is not so much taking those who "went out" as those who were never in Christ to begin with. In fact, I tend to agree on that point.

The problem is that they take a simple statement by John about some people from his time and setting and then say that is true of all people in all settings.

In no way does I John 2:19 come even close to saying that anyone who leaves a church was never really a believer to begin with.

yea I think it’s about what it says rather than that


“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A lot of
Pretenders but the devil is a deceiver and infiltrator he works within the church trying to destroy it spreading lies
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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London
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#31
Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and,
"A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

2 Peter 2:22
They were allus dogs and sows
2Peter 2-20
For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ they are again entangled in them and overpowered the last state has become worse than the first
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

These words would have suited Judas Iscariot perfectly. Peter echoes Jesu's word it would have been better he had never been born.

Judas was never saved.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#33
Those who insist salvation is not eternal are saying salvation is conditioned on our works, and God's whim.
Of course our salvation depends on our works. If you say otherwise, you're picking what scriptures you want to believe and ignoring the rest. Salvation by faith alone is a different gospel, a demonic one.

"But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have deeds.' Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."—James 2:18-19

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."—Revelation 20:12
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#34
We must be like John Wayne then, have true grit.

The saved will endure.
LOL, you said He would've used another word, so I show you another word He used and you still cling to your false doctrine. . .amazing.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,536
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#35
Of course our salvation depends on our works. If you say otherwise, you're picking what scriptures you want to believe and ignoring the rest. Salvation by faith alone is a different gospel, a demonic one.

"But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have deeds.' Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."—James 2:18-19

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."—Revelation 20:12
Then none of us have any hope.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#36
He did use another word, endure. The one who endures to the end will be saved.
That verse is not talking about eternal salvation. Study the context
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
is any one saying he not the anchor of r souls?
Anyone who thinks they have to earn or maintain salvation by works are
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#39
The problem with the typical OSAS interpretation of I John 2:19 is not so much taking those who "went out" as those who were never in Christ to begin with. In fact, I tend to agree on that point.

The problem is that they take a simple statement by John about some people from his time and setting and then say that is true of all people in all settings.

In no way does I John 2:19 come even close to saying that anyone who leaves a church was never really a believer to begin with.
Your problem is John tells us exactly who they are. He tells them they were people who were part of the church. Who now are people who deny Christ. And the father who sent them (he called them antichrist)

nw if we did not have this problem today. I could agree with you. But we do have this problem today. You yourself claim this, by saying they lose salvation. Thats why of course you do not like 1 John. and want to claim this only applies to them. Not us.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#40
Those who insist salvation is not eternal are saying salvation is conditioned on our works, and God's whim.
It's not by God's "whim" as you put it, but by His holy and just discretion. If our salvation doesn't depend on God's discretion, then upon who, or what, does it depend?