E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
what does that have to do wiht the hear and now? Does noto God test our faith to produce patience, and endurance?
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yep. The 12 tribes, His bretheren, WHo were the first to be called the church, after Jesus ascended into heaven.
James was an elder of the church in jerusalem an apostle to the jewish part of the church. who had the same issues the gentile parts of the Church had. They are no different than us The new covenant had already been established, The old was already done away by the cross.
That does not discount the fact his told us, He spoke of those in THAT PASSAGE who CLAIMED TO HAVE FAITH.
He never said they had any faith at all. Thats a lie. A dead faith is no faith. whether your a jew, a gentile or whoever you are.
You give man a lot of credit. What ever book you got that from is in error. James is writing to the twelve tribes scattered abroad but not specifically during the time of Jacobs trouble. The twelve tribes were scattered during the time when James penned this epistle. Scattered into the Roman empire and the known world from previous captivities.
If the book of James were prophetic it would not be confined to chronological order as you wish to ascribe to it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
where do you get this stuff from?? This makes no sense.
1. It was written by James, an apostle to the jewish church, to the jewish church.
2. It was written post the ressurection and ascention of Christ. So james is speaking to them as the church, Not jews.He just wrte to the jews because had a place in his heart from them (plus he was their apostle)
3. It was not written to place people under law. Or under the old ways, Jesus already fulfiled the law.
Notice James is talking about your faith not the faith of Christ. I don't need to try the faith of Christ. It's already perfect.
B
BrotherJustin
Guest
I think I see a difference in understanding of 'faith' here.
Some folks communicate that a dead faith is no faith--this would imply that faith in a false god is no faith.
On the other hand, other folks understand faith to simply be belief or 'complete trust'--which leads to statements such as: 'Muslims have real faith'
I see the word 'faith' being used to carry multiple meanings in a couple of threads lately.
--Perhaps someone could define 'biblical faith'?
Last edited:
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yes, as we saw earlier, someone who said belief and faith are the same.
I believe the faith scripture talks about is the trust and assurance in christ.
Noah trusted God, and built the ark
Abraham trusted God could raise his son from the dead, so he offered him up
David trusted God, and slew Goliath.
Faith is no dead. it acts. it does not stand still
If you have faith God can save you, and will save you, You will receive his gift
If you just believe maybe he will do it. You will not recieve his gift. You may think you have, you may claim you have, But you in reality have not. God is not going to give his gift of eternal life to someone who does not trust him (has yet to fully repent)
Paul spoke alot to people who had faith in the law. And not God. so he fought works with faith alone. James spoke against people who maye have said some sinners prayer, but never fully trusted in God. they believed, but they had yet to repent. Thats why there were no actions (works) which would naturally flow from faith.
Agree, but I'm not justified by my faith. I'm justified by the faith of Christ. I live by the faith of Christ.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
The faith of Christ took him to the cross.. He offers that sacrifice to all men.
Your faith in his offering is what you must have to be saved. Christ's faith can not save you, He will not force you to accept or reject him, You have to do that all on your own.
Christ's faith justifies the believer.
Galatians 2:16, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Christ's faith not only justifies the believer, but it's the faith the believer now lives in. Even when my individual faith waivers, Christ's faith never waivers. Thank God I'm not justified by my own individual puny faith.
You're justified out of your faith into his faith. Without your faith you cannot be justified.
For the righteousness of God is revealed in [the gospel] out of faith into faith, just as it is written, “But the just will live out of faith.” Romans 1:17
Romans 1:17, "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."
Notice that something has changed. The Holy Spirit has led Paul to exclude the word his from the OT Scripture.
Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."
In the OT a man was justified and lived in his own faith. After the cross, a believer is justified by the faith of Christ and lives by the faith of Christ.
Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Paul probably left it out because it's irrelevant. The Septuagint says it's GOD's faith.
If he should draw back, my soul has no pleasure in him: but the just shall live by my faith. Habakkuk 2:4
B
BrotherJustin
Guest
The faith you describe sounds like it requires no action (or decision) on the part of the individual person.
I am still trying to better understand your perspective...
...as I explore my own perspective...
...and the perspectives of others; their perspectives of 'biblical faith', that is.
Sometimes I am poor in describing so let's go to Scripture.
Galatians 2:16, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
The faith of Christ is given to the believer in Jesus Christ, the gospel spoken about Him. Once a man believes the gospel, the faith of Christ now justifies that man forever. Should a justified believer go on to good works? Absolutely, he should. But the presence or absence of good works thereafter does nothing to justify that man. A believer, once justified, is now working and laboring for the Lord and will be held accountable at the Judgment Seat of Christ. That's why going on to good works is important to a believer. Inheritance and rewards are at stake, not salvation.
B
BrotherJustin
Guest
Thanks for your response, John146.
Would it be accurate to say (as a summary): "The faith of Christ is given to those who have faith in Christ"?
I would say yes. But my whole point about James is he's talking to a different audience addressing their individual faith and works to justify man before God. Students of Scripture have never been successful making James a Christian epistle. James is writing to the twelve tribes not the body of Christ. That's where most disagreements come in. I love the book of James. We can reap some good stuff to apply to our lives, but I read it with the understanding that it's not written directly to me as doctrine, a church age believer. I never try to make James and Paul agree.
Thank GOD that your doctrine is so tedious and contrived that only the foolish will follow it.
Last edited:
Sounds like what John 146 Is saying Is,In the old testament,the faith used was our faith and required action but the faith used In the new testament Is CHRIST faith and Is already perfect.