ONCE saved always saved!.

[tourist]

Yes because their heart is still fully based on trust in our Lord Jesus Christ.

The error is though that then those who hear that they do not apply, go and turn it to mean that they can go and do what ever they want and still be saved.
Scriptures make it clear that you can not go and live a bad life producing nothing but bad works. ( You can not serve our Lord and satan ) The Holy Spirit will be there to guide them, but they can refuse that guidance.

This has been the false teaching of the church for years, and some OSAS based churches even teach this error. Once you have been saved you can still live the worse life imaginable and still be saved. That is not biblical.

Salvation comes from the grace of God when the sinner comes before the Lord with a contrite heart seeking forgiveness and repentance. Those that have been saved by the shed blood of the Lord have repented of their sinful past life and from that point on their spiritual lives will improve, a little here, and a little there. Those that are saved must bear the fruit of God's Spirit that now lives in their hearts. They will not want to live an evil life nor shall they.

At the times we may stumble, we tell the Lord we are sorry and He is quick to forgive and blot our transgressions from His thoughts. Why live in constant fear? Let us rejoice and be glad because the Lord is our hope and salvation. Let's start to partake of the meat and get weaned off the milk so that we may strong enough to survive and even thrive until the day the Lord takes us home.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, but it only supports eternal salvation at the judgment like I have been saying.
Our Lord says at judgment you go to eternal life, not before then.
OSAS teaching says you have it now, but Lord Jesus nowhere says that.

He says at judgment they are given this, in His return He says the reward (eternal life ) is with him, and that mixed with all the other scriptures that I gave showing one must endure to the end to be saved.

I write these things so that you may KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and continue to believe in his name.

These are the words of John, Inspired by God.

Again, If I do not KNOW I have eternal life I can not have any hope, if I have no hope. I have no faith, if I do not have faith, How can I be saved? I must continue to trust self. and not God. there is no getting around this my friend.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes but like I said before, that is just one scripture. You have to put it with the other scriptures to get the full meaning. By going by just this one, or a couple others like it, and leave out the rest that also apply you only get half the true meaning. Look at the second part of that scripture anyway, "and continue to believe in His name. "

What happens to the one who does not continue to believe in His name ?

The scriptures make it clear they go to eternal punishment for they are now in unbelief.

I write these things so that you may KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and continue to believe in his name.

These are the words of John, Inspired by God.

Again, If I do not KNOW I have eternal life I can not have any hope, if I have no hope. I have no faith, if I do not have faith, How can I be saved? I must continue to trust self. and not God. there is no getting around this my friend.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I agree with you that some of us will, but the scriptures make it evident that their are some that will be part of His fold but will fall away, turn away, walk away.

Plus the scriptures also make it evident that once you have accepted Jesus as Lord, you can not then go back to willful sinning or you will be cut off.

Salvation comes from the grace of God when the sinner comes before the Lord with a contrite heart seeking forgiveness and repentance. Those that have been saved by the shed blood of the Lord have repented of their sinful past life and from that point on their spiritual lives will improve, a little here, and a little there. Those that are saved must bear the fruit of God's Spirit that now lives in their hearts. They will not want to live an evil life nor shall they.

At the times we may stumble, we tell the Lord we are sorry and He is quick to forgive and blot our transgressions from His thoughts. Why live in constant fear? Let us rejoice and be glad because the Lord is our hope and salvation. Let's start to partake of the meat and get weaned off the milk so that we may strong enough to survive and even thrive until the day the Lord takes us home.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes but like I said before, that is just one scripture. You have to put it with the other scriptures to get the full meaning.

Ok lets do this.

Whoever believes in him HAS (present tense) ETERNAL LIFE (john 3: 16)

Whoever believes in him will NEVER DIE (john 6)

Whoever believes, after hearing the word of truth, is sealed by the spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the day of Christ (eph 2: 13- 14)

those are but a few but you see the point.

Second. Either John meant we have it, Or he lied. You can not have it both ways. If John is not correct. his word is a lie, and scripture is flawed.

By going by just this one, or a couple others like it, and leave out the rest that also apply you only get half the true meaning. Look at the second part of that scripture anyway, "and continue to believe in His name. "

What happens to the one who does not continue to believe in His name ?

Who has true faith and would ever stop believing? I was a prodigal son, but I never stopped believing, even in my deepest sin, the conviction of God and gilt overcame me, until I finally came back. You act as if one can,, But you yourself can not??

Again, you need to be continuous, You can;t claim you will not because you know. then claim someone else can. even though they know.

The scriptures make it clear they go to eternal punishment for they are now in unbelief.

Nope/ it says they were never saved, because they never had faith,

 

[kennethcadwell]

Like I said, you proved what I was talking about. You only use like minded verses, but there are so many others in which I gave that are very much a part of that, and you can not leave them out.

Yes eternal life will come to believers if they run the good race, and keep running it.

You mentioned John, but John also said this:

2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.

Ok lets do this.

Whoever believes in him HAS (present tense) ETERNAL LIFE (john 3: 16)

Whoever believes in him will NEVER DIE (john 6)

Whoever believes, after hearing the word of truth, is sealed by the spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the day of Christ (eph 2: 13- 14)

those are but a few but you see the point.

Second. Either John meant we have it, Or he lied. You can not have it both ways. If John is not correct. his word is a lie, and scripture is flawed.



Who has true faith and would ever stop believing? I was a prodigal son, but I never stopped believing, even in my deepest sin, the conviction of God and gilt overcame me, until I finally came back. You act as if one can,, But you yourself can not??

Again, you need to be continuous, You can;t claim you will not because you know. then claim someone else can. even though they know.



Nope/ it says they were never saved, because they never had faith,

 

[newbirth]

So they stopped earning grace, is that what you were saying?

what is it with you and earning?
It is obvious they left the true gospel and were following false doctrine

Everytime you give someone the gospel. You are calling them to grace. Does everyone you witness to get saved?

no ,but these verses show they were following the true gospel but someone was teaching them a perverted gospel
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Um. No, That is what God calls it. If it is being used to gain, keep, or prevent you from losing salvation. It is a salvation by works. not grace.

you just did now you are saying it's God who did....mmmm..

so lets see what you said

"God does not partly save" I agree
"Yet the truely saved theory is bogus " But would that not make us partially saved?

"Your saved or not".. So again, we are not partially saved, But we may not be saved, because our salvation is not secure.

wow. talk about babble. and contradiction.. Which is it?? Do you even know?

you are the one who keeps saying truly saved I have not seen that phrase in scripture ..please indicate the chapter and verse if you have.

you just keep playing with words pal

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Like I said, you proved what I was talking about. You only use like minded verses, but there are so many others in which I gave that are very much a part of that, and you can not leave them out.

Yes eternal life will come to believers if they run the good race, and keep running it.

You mentioned John, but John also said this:

2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.

salvation is a gift, not a reward.

You just contradicted yourself you can;t claim salvation is a gift of God. then claim it is a reward.

The rewards spoken of their are for saved people only.

As you said, some will be least in the kingdom (have few if any rewards) but they will still be in heaven.

Your mixing sanctification passages with justification passages,

and claiming I must use them to make the others real?

John said we can know we have eternal life. He wrote his whole epistle to show us this. If we can;t know. John lied.

 

[2Thewaters]

Let me ask you this, do you believe that man can be resaved if he loses his Salvation?

To loose your salvation you have to be dead and lost

then its over
one can always repent of sins while alive.

there is no point where there is guaranteed sailing
or why would there be such a battle?
Jesus could just come, whats the struggle for?

the struggle is to see if your love is real or not
will you remain faithful to the end

no point of a test like that if you are guaranteed salvation right?

think about that.

 

[2Thewaters]

OSAS is nothing more than the wide road to make money
thats it.

there is definitely a wide road, and a narrow road
OSAS is the wide road.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It is mentioned as both in scripture.
Not Helpful [h=3]Colossians 3:23-24[/h] Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

Matthew 10:42
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And whoever gives one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.”
[h=4]

salvation is a gift, not a reward.

You just contradicted yourself you can;t claim salvation is a gift of God. then claim it is a reward.

The rewards spoken of their are for saved people only.

As you said, some will be least in the kingdom (have few if any rewards) but they will still be in heaven.

Your mixing sanctification passages with justification passages,

and claiming I must use them to make the others real?

John said we can know we have eternal life. He wrote his whole epistle to show us this. If we can;t know. John lied.

[/h]

 

[Bookends]

No ,You are seeing what you want to see....I am telling you that you have the power to say no to sin....God did not clean you up and leave you helpless. He gave you power to become a son of God. So there is no excuse to sin.period.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
God did the work already but if it is not manifest in you, it means you don't have it ...you must bear fruit

Then you don't see yourself as being saved?

 

[john832]

Why did you fail to quote 6:9 where it is explained as not referring to a saved person?

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

I am persuaded that this won't happen to you? This in some way negates the previous warning?

Paul thought he could lose out himself...

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[BradC]

I am persuaded that this won't happen to you? This in some way negates the previous warning?

Paul thought he could lose out himself...

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul is referring to running a race and obtaining the prize, an incorruptible crown, that is why he brings his body in subjection as one who is running a race. Then he brings this into his call to preach the unsearchable riches of Christ, so he disciplines his body through hardships so that he would not become unfit and disapproved (a castaway or a liability) but fit and approved to receive the prize, an incorruptible crown of rejoicing at the bema seat judgment (2 Cor 5:10). This passage has nothing to do with whether Paul is saved or not but has everything to do with whether he is rewarded for his service that he was called by God to be faithful to execute by faith in the promises of God. If he is a castaway or disapproved in his service he will suffer loss of rewards as will all of us. We are to run the race that is set before us with patience along with setting aside the weight and sin that so easily besets us looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith (Heb 12:1-3).

 

[Bookends]

I respectfully disagree...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Amazing how we see this differently. This Passage in Hebrews 6:1-8, is saying the opposite IMO. BTW, Heb. 6:6 should read "and have fallen away". But regardless, this passage is about moving into maturity and leaving the elementary principles of Christ behind. In other words, once you came to repentance and faith in God, it is time to move on deeper and more spiritual things, spiritual living, your practice, applying Christ to your life. Therefore, if one does fall away, their is no need for them to retold the basics or elementary principles of Christ, "been there done that"; He's already been told and received the message; it can't be redone. This person "who falls away" needs to come come back into the faith and move forward in the love, faith and practice of the saints; not redo his salvation. If this person or anyone feels this person needs to get saved again, they are sacrificing again the blood of Christ and putting Christ to open shame! Why Shame? Because in essence what your saying the blood of Christ didn't have the power to save the first time, you are diminishing the power of the blood.

 

[newbirth]

Then you don't see yourself as being saved?

How could I not see? It is very clear to me

 

[newbirth]

Paul is referring to running a race and obtaining the prize, an incorruptible crown, that is why he brings his body in subjection as one who is running a race. Then he brings this into his call to preach the unsearchable riches of Christ, so he disciplines his body through hardships so that he would not become unfit and disapproved (a castaway or a liability) but fit and approved to receive the prize, an incorruptible crown of rejoicing at the bema seat judgment (2 Cor 5:10). This passage has nothing to do with whether Paul is saved or not but has everything to do with whether he is rewarded for his service that he was called by God to be faithful to execute by faith in the promises of God. If he is a castaway or disapproved in his service he will suffer loss of rewards as will all of us. We are to run the race that is set before us with patience along with setting aside the weight and sin that so easily besets us looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith (Heb 12:1-3).

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[SUP]7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight
[SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

What are the things done in this body?...
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[newbirth]

Amazing how we see this differently. This Passage in Hebrews 6:1-8, is saying the opposite IMO. BTW, Heb. 6:6 should read "and have fallen away". But regardless, this passage is about moving into maturity and leaving the elementary principles of Christ behind. In other words, once you came to repentance and faith in God, it is time to move on deeper and more spiritual things, spiritual living, your practice, applying Christ to your life. Therefore, if one does fall away, their is no need for them to retold the basics or elementary principles of Christ, "been there done that"; He's already been told and received the message; it can't be redone. This person "who falls away" needs to come come back into the faith and move forward in the love, faith and practice of the saints; not redo his salvation. If this person or anyone feels this person needs to get saved again, they are sacrificing again the blood of Christ and putting Christ to open shame! Why Shame? Because in essence what your saying the blood of Christ didn't have the power to save the first time, you are diminishing the power of the blood.

I agree with you here and therein is the real danger if one remains in that position...
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[SeaBass]

God is the author and finisher of our faith. We cannot fail because Christ is the victor. Salvation cannot be lost because God is the power of salvation not man. It is you that makes God to be less than God by placing conditions on His love and His grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

As I posted earlier in this thread:

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the KJV, ASV and others the word "our" is in italics for it was added by translators when it should not have been.

“The word ‘our’ should be omitted” (The Epistle to the Hebrews, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1952, p. 145). W.E. Vine.

In the original text, the word "faith" is preceded by the article "the"...Jesus is the author and finisher of the faith.

"The faith" refers the system of faith, body of information found throughout Christ's NT. As Jude said to "contend for the faith" Jude 1:3 and Paul preached "the faith" Gal 1:23, many were "obedient to the faith" Acts 6:7

So Christ is the author and finisher of the faith, the body of information in the NT, the gospel.

 

[SeaBass]

What if a Christian commits adultery, caught cheating on his/her spouse. Can that Christian NOT repent of this sin and still be saved? No, Lk 13:3,5; 1 Cor 6:9.