Then you are saying that after you are saved, if you no longer have works, your faith is now dead, but you will still be saved?
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Context!!!
In the context Paul metaphorically refers to the church at Corinth as "God's building", verse 9
In verse 10 Paul calls himself a "masterbuilder" who laid a "foundation" at Corinth.
Paul is making a metaphorical comparison between building a building and building the church. When one builds a building, he lays a foundation and builds upon that foundation and the building is only as strong as the material used, verse 12.
Likewise building the church is like building a building for in building the church at Corinth Paul "laid the foundation" of the "building". That is, in building the church at Corinth Paul 'laid the foundation" by making the initial converts. Others came behind Paul and built upon that foundation laid by Paul by making even more converts. And the church is only as strong as the faith of those converts made.
1 Cor 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
Paul calls these Corinthians his "work".
Verse 13 Every man's work (convert) shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work (convert) of what sort it is.
Verse 14 If any man's work (convert) abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
On judgment day, those Corinthian converts that are judged to be saved, Paul will receive a reward for them.
Verse 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Converts of Paul that are judged to be burned/lost then Paul will suffer some loss over that lost convert but Paul himself will be saved if he remains faith - is not a castaway, 1 Cor 9:27. Paul's converts in Galatia had left the gospel, quit obeying the truth, fallen from grace and Paul said of them "I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour/WORK in vain." If those Galatians did not repent and end up burned/lost, then Paul will suffer a sense of loss over them, his work in making those converts would be in vain.
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
yeah context context.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, [SUP]13 [/SUP]each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
this is talking about each ones personal work.. not the work of someone you converted. get real man, where do you get this stuff??
Hebrew 6:4-6 What does this say?
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come ,
6 If they shall fall away , to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame .
Hebrews 2:1-3 What does this say?
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard , lest at any time we should let them slip .
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Hebrews 4:1-4 What does this say?
1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .
2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Psalm 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
Hebrews 4:5-7
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Psalm 95:7-8
7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come ,
6 If they shall fall away , to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame .
Hebrews 2:1-3 What does this say?
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard , lest at any time we should let them slip .
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Hebrews 4:1-4 What does this say?
1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .
2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Psalm 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
Hebrews 4:5-7
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Psalm 95:7-8
7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No. this is not true, if it was, james would have said this, he did not.
he said if one claims to have faith but does not have work can his faith save him.
he is not saying in a particular time in our life. he is talking about the ones who claim salvation but in word only. not doers of the word but hearers only.
your argument is not supported by james my friend,,
It is talking about the work of building the church at Corinth and making converts is how the church is built.
Again, He refers to the church at Corinth as "God's building".
Paul then says: "as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
Paul is talking about "building upon the foundation" which is about building the church/making converts upon Christ the foundation.
In v14 Paul say "If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
What "work" is Paul talking about that is "built thereupon"?
He is talking about the work of building the church/work of making converts upon the foundation Christ.
2
2Thewaters
Guest
Upon the foundation of the whole word of God
1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous (lawbreakers) shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you:
but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,
but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus,
and by the Spirit of our God.
WERE commandment breakers but were SANCTIFIED
our work is to put away sin and stop sinning by the spirit of God
notice the sanctification in there?
important.
1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous (lawbreakers) shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you:
but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,
but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus,
and by the Spirit of our God.
WERE commandment breakers but were SANCTIFIED
our work is to put away sin and stop sinning by the spirit of God
notice the sanctification in there?
important.
2
2Thewaters
Guest
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Sanctification is CHANGING your life giving up sin
withotu this no man will see God
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Sanctification is CHANGING your life giving up sin
withotu this no man will see God
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
yeah it is.
so how much work did YOU do to build up the church.
that is what is being judged.. your work not someone elses..
Yep and paul will recieve alot of gold silver and precious stone. for doing that work
how much will you recieve?
How have I offended you brother ? I quote the word of God, show me where I have wronged you..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
you have not wronged us. Not sure why you would think you have.
he asked you a valid question though..
Are we not even now building on the foundation Paul laid ? Else why are you trying to convince men of your doctrine?
The issue is what "work" does one do to build the church? Making converts. If no converts were ever made in Corinth then that church would not have existed there. And it is that work, the convert, that the context speaks about being judged. Therefore if ones work/convert be burned then Paul will not be lost as long as he remains faithful, 1 Cor 9:27 but suffer a sense of loss over his lost converts, his work will have all been in vain over them. So there is no eternal security in this passage at all.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
no my friend,
it is alot more than making converts. if that is ALL you think the church is for. you do not even understand the church and its function. and are more in the dark than I even thought.
Why are you so desperate to hold onto your works for eternal life? That you would totally destroy a passage which quite clearly speak of individual rewards..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Well I am building on that foundation.
But you have to be in the foundation before you can build on it do you not?
And what does this have to do with what I responded to. Let me guess, you agree with sea bass that these rewards are for how many converts we make and thats all..
You two can start a church of your own. because no one else believes this stuff.
That is your straw man. Paul said where sin abounds grace doth much more abound. The point remains that mans works do not effect his eternal salvation. Grace cannot be overcome by mans actions. Until you learn to differentiate between salvation and sanctification you will remain in error.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Paul does not judge this man to be unsaved. Paul says to turn him over to God for the destruction of his flesh but does not say his soul would be lost. You need to add your spin to make it say anything else. You continue to demonstrate that you do not understand grace or the depths of Gods love.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
That's the problem. There is no difference. If you are not sanctifed by Christ, you are not saved.
James 2:24 - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:14 - What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Scripture says you are wrong. You works affect your eternal salvation.
He is judged to be lost by Paul. Paul said there was fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife and Paul says in 1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, And Paul does not contradict himself.
Paul judged that this fornicator was to be delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. This deliver unto Satan is equivalent to "put away from among yourselves that wicked person" in verse 13
Paul judged him to be a fornicator, wicked person that should be put away from the church so he MAY BE (subjunctive mood) SAVED. Why say that he MAY BE saved if he already was saved and could never lose that salvation? His salvation was the hoped result of his being delivered to Satan/taken away from the church.
...it was to humiliate the man, to bring about the taming and the eradication of his lusts so that in the end his spirit should be saved. It was to bring him to his senses, to make him see the enormity of the thing that he had done." (p. 50) > Barclay
Again, Paul said you either serve 1) sin unto death or 2) obedience unto righteousness? Which was this wicked fornicator serving, #1 or #2?
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I would agree and will add.......even 1 microgram of trust into your own works equals a gospel of a different kind which leads to hell....It is ALL Jesus, his work, his faith, his sacrifice and what he accomplished was acceptable unto the Heavenly Father and secures eternal life/salvation/justification for those who exercise true biblical belief into the complete works of Christ!