One taken,one left. The rapture.

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
There is NOTHING about taking glorified believers to heaven. That's what you can't prove.

Aren't you the one mocking trying to prove a negative? What do you call this mess of yours here?

Basically, your ludicrous defense here is this:

Since there "is nothing about not taking glorified believers to heaven, we can SAFELY ASSUME/PRESUME/INSINUATE that there is sometning about taking glorified believers to heaven".

That is just stupid.

Lol
It is parody. Using your same stupid argument back at you.
I am using YOUR stupid argument back at you.
YES...YOU NOW GET IT.... it took some doing, but out of your own mouth, when you are on the other side of your own ridiculous methods.....it reeks of stupidity as you indicate.

Yes
Your deal is beyond stupid
THANKS for admitting it finally.

You are beyond funny. Sad, though, as well.

btw, in Henry Morris' commentary "The Revelation Record" he believes that Rev 14 is about God's wrath, as do I. And NONE of the verses in that chapter are about a resurrection or "rapture". Or he would have mentioned it.

And he is unfortunately a pretribber and is forced to rip the single resurrection into stages, like all pretribbers.

He calls the "first resurrection" of Rev 20:5 and "final first resurrection".

It's just too funny for words. He should know better.

 

[Absolutely]

It is really bad when you have to revert to name calling instead of going to Gods word to make a point. You should thank about that when you talk to God tonight.
Again I will to you to read the words of Paul. and The Lord Jesus Christ. If someone dies before Jesus returns they are taken to The bosom of Abraham, paradise, ect. Then lets see what God showed John in Revelation; 6:9 This is the seal that we are in right know. And when He had opened the 5th seal, I saw under the alter the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held: 10. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long O Lord holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11. And white robes were given unto everyone of them, that they should rest a little season, until there fellow servants also and there brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. I can guarantee you those brothers and sisters in the Middle East and elsewhere that have suffered and died at the hands of evil men of Satan are under that alter; and they have received their reward already.

Go back an read what fg posts.
One personal attack after another.
He called me stupid.

You are looking at MY PUSHBACK.

Not that it matters.

I do believe i need to close my account.

 

[Absolutely]

This place will be taken over by postribbers doctrine.

No pushback.

 

[Thewatchman]

FreeGrace2 said:
You need a new publicity agent. Your defense is pitiful.

No, the Bible is clear: there is ONE resurrection of the saved. Not "stages" as presumed. It will occur "when He comes" which is the Second Advent. 1 Cor 15:23, 2 Thess 2:1.

You have no evidence. Only presumptions and innuendos.

Free Gr

This place will be taken over by postribbers doctrine.

No pushback.

you mean the truth of Gods word.

 

[DavidTree]

OK OK I am almost 70 yo so I transposed my numbers 13:36 -43. As for lots of Satan worshippers share a bed with sold out, Jesus following born again believers; The verse reads 2 men slept. Should 2 men be sleeping together? or does this mean something else. In that day and time if it was real cold 2 men might sleep close for body heat. Remember Matthew 13. The reapers came first for the tares the children of Satan and left the wheat to be gathered second. These 2 men could have been on a trip for their master and had to be together. Parable definition Strong's 3850 Greek dictionary. A similitude "parable" fictitious narrative of common life. A comparison, figure, parable, proverb. Ezekiel 13 is all about prophets, and prophetess (male and female prophets, teachers) That see there on dreams make up there own visions and what has God got to say to them. I am against your lies wherewith ye there hunt souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. You want to go hunting for souls and tell them that they are going to fly away when God says not to; I have an other verse for you. Matthew 7:21-23 the whole chapter is a great bible study 21: Not everyone that sayth unto Me, Lord, Lord shall inter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Farther Which is in heaven, 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name cast out many devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them I never know you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity. Right above that paragraph Jesus says some other harsh thing: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Then Jesus goes on to say know which tree to get your fruit from; The tree of Life or the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

You said: "Should 2 men be sleeping together? or does this mean something else"

KJV adds 'men' whereas it should be just - "two in one bed"

Also, the other common understanding, as you pointed out 'cold nite' and in military where all the men shared sleeping quarters.

Since it states "two in one bed" I believe the thought here is of marriage - husband and wife - as in the Beginning.

just some thoughts - Good Morning

 

[FreeGrace2]

This place will be taken over by postribbers doctrine.

No pushback.

Hey, before you close your account, could you explain what Martha said in John 11:24?

Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

What are the red words. What are the blue words.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Go back an read what fg posts.
One personal attack after another.
He called me stupid.

Read my post again. I NEVER commit ad hominem. I called your ideas stupid. That is all together different.

Very smart people can do some very stupid things or say some very stupid things.

 

[Thewatchman]

You said: "Should 2 men be sleeping together? or does this mean something else"

KJV adds 'men' whereas it should be just - "two in one bed"

Also, the other common understanding, as you pointed out 'cold nite' and in military where all the men shared sleeping quarters.

Since it states "two in one bed" I believe the thought here is of marriage - husband and wife - as in the Beginning.

just some thoughts - Good Morning

OK OK I am almost 70 yo so I transposed my numbers 13:36 -43. As for lots of Satan worshippers share a bed with sold out, Jesus following born again believers; The verse reads 2 men slept. Should 2 men be sleeping together? or does this mean something else. In that day and time if it was real cold 2 men might sleep close for body heat. Remember Matthew 13. The reapers came first for the tares the children of Satan and left the wheat to be gathered second. These 2 men could have been on a trip for their master and had to be together. Parable definition Strong's 3850 Greek dictionary. A similitude "parable" fictitious narrative of common life. A comparison, figure, parable, proverb. Ezekiel 13 is all about prophets, and prophetess (male and female prophets, teachers) That see there on dreams make up there own visions and what has God got to say to them. I am against your lies wherewith ye there hunt souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly. You want to go hunting for souls and tell them that they are going to fly away when God says not to; I have an other verse for you. Matthew 7:21-23 the whole chapter is a great bible study 21: Not everyone that sayth unto Me, Lord, Lord shall inter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Farther Which is in heaven, 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name cast out many devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them I never know you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity. Right above that paragraph Jesus says some other harsh thing: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Then Jesus goes on to say know which tree to get your fruit from; The tree of Life or the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Davidtree. I was trying to answer Absolutely and his remarks about Luke 17:36-42 men shall be in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. He is trying to say that is the rapture. I was hoping he would pick up on the fact that as in Matthew 13:36-43 where Jesus explains the parable of the wheat and tares Jesus makes it clear Verse 36. the good seed is the Son of man; 38. The field is the world; the good seed is the children of the kingdom; the tears are the children of the wicked one. 39. The enemy is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; the reapers are the angles. 40. As the tears are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be at the end of the world. 41. Jesus will send his angles to gather out of his kingdom (the new kingdom set up right here on earth through the millennium and into the Heavenly age) all things that offend and do iniquity. 42. He will cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be walling and gnashing of teeth. 43. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear let him hear. Absolutely came back with Luke 17:34 In that night there shall be two men in one bed the one, shall be taken, and the other left. I thank he was trying to imply they were sleeping together and I was saying they could have been on a business trip and slept close to one another. The point was one the child of the devil was taken and the other the child of God was left just as the parable of the wheat and tares. He tried to make it into something all together different. The point there is no pretrib rapture. I hope this helps clear things up and not muddy the watter.

 

[Thewatchman]

Davidtree. I was trying to answer Absolutely and his remarks about Luke 17:36-42 men shall be in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. He is trying to say that is the rapture. I was hoping he would pick up on the fact that as in Matthew 13:36-43 where Jesus explains the parable of the wheat and tares Jesus makes it clear Verse 36. the good seed is the Son of man; 38. The field is the world; the good seed is the children of the kingdom; the tears are the children of the wicked one. 39. The enemy is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; the reapers are the angles. 40. As the tears are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be at the end of the world. 41. Jesus will send his angles to gather out of his kingdom (the new kingdom set up right here on earth through the millennium and into the Heavenly age) all things that offend and do iniquity. 42. He will cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be walling and gnashing of teeth. 43. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear let him hear. Absolutely came back with Luke 17:34 In that night there shall be two men in one bed the one, shall be taken, and the other left. I thank he was trying to imply they were sleeping together and I was saying they could have been on a business trip and slept close to one another. The point was one the child of the devil was taken and the other the child of God was left just as the parable of the wheat and tares. He tried to make it into something all together different. The point there is no pretrib rapture. I hope this helps clear things up and not muddy the watter.

Thanks Davidtree for the thumbs up. I just posted a new bible study part 3 of the 7 churches of Revelation you might enjoy it.

 

[LetGodBeTrue]

Mat 24
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Luke 17
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left

Pretrib rapture.

Where is there a "rapture" in this passage? Are you not making suppositions? Furthermore, there is no rapture taught in Scripture.

 

[posthuman]

Noah road out the storm in the ark he constructed as of the Lord'd instruction.
Lot walked out on his own two legs as instructed by God's angels and hide nearby as destruction came.
Jesus wast takes to Egypt by Joseph and Marry as instructed by God's angel and waited until the danger was gone before returning to their home.
Do not see any evidence of God swooping down ant taking them.
Do not see any evidence of them leaving the earth.
What I do see is the Lord providing escape to a safe place where He protected them from the destruction that was to come and because of their doing as instructed. Preparing and following His instruction.

• God shut the door to the ark.
• Lot didn't walk out of Sodom; his house was surrounded by every man in the city intent to destroy them all. the angels took him and part of his family ((4 of 10)) by the hand while he hesitated
• Jesus, an infant, didn't walk to Egypt; His parents took him

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hey, before you close your account, could you explain what Martha said in John 11:24?

Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

What are the red words. What are the blue words.

funny though Martha was wrong about that

“Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

……And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:23-27, 43-45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seemed like Jesus was trying to teach Martha something about the resurrection , and what Martha “knew “ Jesus explained and then did something better …. I wonder if she learned the lesson ?

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Jesus speaks the word of life , death has no power at all…..something to consider is More what Jesus said than Martha given her brother rose a few minutes later

 

[DavidTree]

Thanks Davidtree for the thumbs up. I just posted a new bible study part 3 of the 7 churches of Revelation you might enjoy it.

Thank you, was busy yesterday and will check it out today.

 

[DavidTree]

This place will be taken over by postribbers doctrine.

No pushback.

Good Morning my Brother in Christ

Let this Beautiful Truth be your Daily Bread today.

The LORD Jesus Christ was the First Post-Tribber to Rise from the Dead.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Both sides believe every word.

You are not doing anything there.

That’s your opinion.


What you fail to recognize is the word “coming” as the return of Jesus Christ to gather His people and remove the wicked from the earth.


The Coming plainly refers to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, at the end of the age.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming on the last day. and BEFORE the rapture.





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Lets go to the New Testament 1st Corinthians 15:35-58 I am not going to quite it all but goes and says some very important things in there.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24

• But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

The resurrection takes place at His coming.



This is my point.


Do you agree?



JPT

 

[Thewatchman]

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24

• But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

The resurrection takes place at His coming.



This is my point.


Do you agree?



JPT

Yes when Jesus returns

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24

• But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

The resurrection takes place at His coming.



This is my point.


Do you agree?



JPT

Yes when we who are alive at the return of Jesus will be changed into spiritual bodies. I do not believe in the rapture; I believe that when we die the flesh body is of no use to us any more because the spirit, soul, intellect . . . returns to the God who gave it. At the return of Jesus graves are not opening up and dead bodies flesh bodies are not coming out. 1st Corinthians 15:50 copied from biblehub.com Verse 50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. The flesh and blood body will not be needed at anytime after you die. Jesus returns puts his foot on the Mt. of Olives this earth age is finished, God will make it back perfect as it was in the beginning. The lion will lay down with the lamb. We will all be in spiritual bodies. The soul will either be mortal meaning liable to die or eternal verse 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, We shall not all sleep: we are not all going to die before Jesus returns. But we shall all be changed: Changed how? Into spiritual bodies, every body has to have a soul some are mortal libel to die, some are immortal meaning they will live for ever.
I don't want to turn this into a big long bible study We can do that later if you want. You will find what I am saying in the Old Testament as well as the New.
Again to answer your question I do not believe in a pertrib, posttrib, midtrib. I DO believe in the millennium. A 1000 year reign with Jesus, ending with God coming to earth to set up His kingdom. wherever God is that is where is heaven is. Again if you want or anyelse wants backup we can get into a good bible study.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes when Jesus returns

Yes when we who are alive at the return of Jesus will be changed into spiritual bodies. I do not believe in the rapture; I believe that when we die the flesh body is of no use to us any more because the spirit, soul, intellect . . . returns to the God who gave it. At the return of Jesus graves are not opening up and dead bodies flesh bodies are not coming out. 1st Corinthians 15:50 copied from biblehub.com Verse 50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. The flesh and blood body will not be needed at anytime after you die. Jesus returns puts his foot on the Mt. of Olives this earth age is finished, God will make it back perfect as it was in the beginning. The lion will lay down with the lamb. We will all be in spiritual bodies. The soul will either be mortal meaning liable to die or eternal verse 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, We shall not all sleep: we are not all going to die before Jesus returns. But we shall all be changed: Changed how? Into spiritual bodies, every body has to have a soul some are mortal libel to die, some are immortal meaning they will live for ever.
I don't want to turn this into a big long bible study We can do that later if you want. You will find what I am saying in the Old Testament as well as the New.
Again to answer your question I do not believe in a pertrib, posttrib, midtrib. I DO believe in the millennium. A 1000 year reign with Jesus, ending with God coming to earth to set up His kingdom. wherever God is that is where is heaven is. Again if you want or anyelse wants backup we can get into a good bible study.

You are the second Brother that i have come across that believes: "At the return of Jesus graves are not opening up and dead bodies flesh bodies are not coming out"

#1 - i am here to inquire and hopefully learn
#2 - what helps me to learn is to process scripture and apply it to statements/doctrines/beliefs and therefore DO NOT take offense by me as i will seemingly and actually bring challenge to your thoughts /statements.
NOT to be against you but so that i can SEE by comparing scripture with scripture as i believe that Scripture cannot contradict Itself.

Hopefully you accept this from me.

 

[glen55]

Mat 24
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Luke 17
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left

Pretrib rapture.

Its like Saul who became Paul so where did Saul go? Bodies of dust don't live very long, Paul knew he wasn't male or female literally in Christ in him. Always these stories sound like two people are being talk about is not being the meaning of them, one will die one never dies. One always seen one only seen by spirit. Etc............one great and least, one awake for eternity.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I don't want to turn this into a big long bible study

God's Great GRACE Departure is definitely a "big long Bible study." I have
18 sections in the one I did...won't post it all here, hope this little bit
helps maybe challenge just one person with Truth; just the Conclusion:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With
The Second Coming, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army, * “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

to be continued...