Only Jews Survive Trib as Mortals in a Pretrib Scenario

[presidente]

I don't remember which poster or posters it was who argued for pretrib based on the idea that the only supposed mortal survivors of the Second Coming were supposed to be Jews.

For those who hold to that view, how would you explain the references to these nations?

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[Omegatime]

I don't remember which poster or posters it was who argued for pretrib based on the idea that the only supposed mortal survivors of the Second Coming were supposed to be Jews.

For those who hold to that view, how would you explain the references to these nations?

Yes, that would be foolish to say that, nations always refer to gentiles

Consider Zech 14:16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I don't remember which poster or posters it was who argued for pretrib based on the idea that the only supposed mortal survivors of the Second Coming were supposed to be Jews.

For those who hold to that view, how would you explain the references to these nations?

I'm not aware of any pre-tribbers here who say this (who knows);

but in the event that you've mistakenly taken ME to be saying such (not!), I will remind you (what I've presented in many past posts) that Matthew 25:31-34 speaks of the Sheep and goats OF THE NATIONS [plural] (and being themselves distinct from "the least of these My brethren" in vv.40,45 who are NOT the ones BEING judged / separated in THAT judgment);

They are all located ON THE EARTH at the time-slot of Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (same for Mt13:24,30,39,40,49-50, UPON WHICH [passage] the disciples' LATER question to Him in Matt24:3 WAS BASED--and that which His response in 2 chpts pertains and covers);


ONLY the "righteous / saved / saints / believers" (both Jew/Israel AND Gentile) will ENTER the MK age (in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children [...grandchildren and so forth]); but the ones BORN to them (in and during the MK yrs) are not "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS"... "death" will still exist, but will be much more rare, reserved only for the rebellious.


This is how, by the END of the MK age it can be said, "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" (MANY, MANY ppl!--will have been born in/during the MK age)


What is said of Satan at that time (after the MK), is that he is "loosed out-from his prison, And shall go out TO DECEIVE the nations..." (speaking of his intensions / his aim, at that point)

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Not possible ^ in a POST-trib scenario... unless one disregards [contexts and] passages saying ONLY the "righteous" will ENTER the MK age (in their mortal bodies).

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't remember which poster or posters it was who argued for pretrib based on the idea that the only supposed mortal survivors of the Second Coming were supposed to be Jews. For those who hold to that view, how would you explain the references to these nations? Revelation 20 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

There is an awful lot of confusion in this post. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is not the same as the Second Coming, and the Second Coming is not the same as the Millennium. And since God is no respecter of persons he does not choose one ethnic group over another when it comes to survival. So it looks like you need to brush up on your eschatology.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And this goes WELL BEYOND the Millennium. More confusion.

 

[presidente]

There is an awful lot of confusion in this post. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is not the same as the Second Coming, and the Second Coming is not the same as the Millennium. And since God is no respecter of persons he does not choose one ethnic group over another when it comes to survival. So it looks like you need to brush up on your eschatology.

The Bible teaches that Jesus will come. It doesn't say it will happen over and over again.

But your post doesn't make sense based on what I posted. We can agree one what the 'Second Coming' I referred to is. So there shouldn't be any points of contention on the part you quoted.

The difference of opinion is pre-tribbers adding an additional coming of Christ seven years prior.

It doesn't make sense, considering 'No man knoweth the day or the hour' of the coming of the Son of man 'after the tribulation' in Matthew 24.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It doesn't make sense, considering 'No man knoweth the day or the hour' of the coming of the Son of man 'after the tribulation' in Matthew 24.

"But of that day and hour KNOWETH no man" (not even Jesus, at the time spoken); ... INDEED speaks of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 time-slot;

...but that's because this was the Subject Jesus was covering in His Olivet Discourse (hailing back to the prophecy in Isaiah 9, 12-13 [equaling Dan9:24's Subject... and corresponding with Rom11:27]).





However, the "KNOWETH [PERFECT indicative]" in Matt24:36 (and parallels) is NOT conveying the idea that no one CAN EVER / WILL EVER know... ; Jesus has known ever since His resurrection / ascension / exaltation, and then some 60+ YEARS LATER supplied FURTHER detailed timing-info and time-stamps in the text throughout "The Revelation OF JESUS CHRIST, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM to shew unto..." (i.e. IN the Book of Rev), such that, one who is existing on the earth in that future time period CAN INDEED KNOW (if they will but heed His word--But as we know, many will NOT).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

(hailing back to the prophecy in Isaiah 9, 12-13

Sorry, TYPO...

should read: "Isaiah 27:9, 12-13"


(as in previous posts I've made)

 

[Magenta]

Acts 1:7; Mark 13:32

 

[oyster67]

I don't remember which poster or posters it was who argued for pretrib based on the idea that the only supposed mortal survivors of the Second Coming were supposed to be Jews.

Yes, for the most part. There might be some gentile that convert and somehow escape the blade, but probably not many.

These mortals will produce offspring...

For those who hold to that view, how would you explain the references to these nations?
Revelation 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

...many of those offspring will choose to rebel when the opportunity finally presents itself at the end of the 1000 years when Satan is released.

 

[Truthnightmare]

No man knows the day or the hour… I’m not sure if that means no man will “ever” know the day or the hour.

Yes, for the most part. There might be some gentile that convert and somehow escape the blade, but probably not many.

These mortals will produce offspring...

...many of those offspring will choose to rebel when the opportunity finally presents itself at the end of the 1000 years when Satan is released.

I disagree, but very interesting.

 

[Komentaja]

I don't remember which poster or posters it was who argued for pretrib based on the idea that the only supposed mortal survivors of the Second Coming were supposed to be Jews.

For those who hold to that view, how would you explain the references to these nations?

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

That guy is already banned. He had that legolas character as his profile picture. Completely whacked out ideas about EVERYONE being slaughetered who dont take the mark of the beast except for the 144 000.

Too much literalism will get you there. You will be forced to believe that the Roman Empire taxed South America.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Bible teaches that Jesus will come. It doesn't say it will happen over and over again.

Actually it does but not in the way you want it to. In John 14:1-3 Christ revealed the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Paul expanded on that in several passages. The purpose of that coming is NOT to return to earth at all. It is also a MOMENTARY coming.

Then we have the actual Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory" to execute judgment on earth. Two totally different objectives, hence two totally different comings. As to survivors after the Rapture, the whole unbelieving world will remain on earth. As to survivors after the reign of the Antichrist, again the whole unbelieving world will take the mark. As to the battle of Gog and Magog, it has nothing to do with these events.

 

[studentoftheword]

presidente said:
The Bible teaches that Jesus will come. It doesn't say it will happen over and over again.


Actually if you really look at scripture Jesus comes 3 times -----so we see 3 episodes of Jesus appearing ------

!st coming was predicted in the Old Testament ------A messiah will come ------Jesus walks the earth ----Jesus came to deal with Sin and to bring back eternal life ------he comes as a sign

Old Testament Predictions of Jesus' Birth
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bib...testament-predicts-jesus-birth-and-death.html

Isaiah 7:14 ESV
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2nd Coming is in the air -------to catch up His Saints

to catch up in the air the Saints before God sends 7 years of His wrath upon this earth -----

Pre Tribulation Rapture
https://www.openbible.info/topics/pre_tribulation_rapture

1 Thessalonians 4:17 ESV
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3rd coming ------which is called the 2nd coming ----bringing ----judgment ----and rewards

The Second Coming Of Jesus
https://www.openbible.info/topics/the_second_coming_of_jesus

Revelation 22:12. Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.

The Greek word in this scripture for Recompense

Strong's Concordance
misthos: wages, hire
Usage: (a) pay, wages, salary, (b) reward, recompense, punishment.

in both senses, rewards and punishments: Revelation 22:12.

 

[presidente]

However, the "KNOWETH [PERFECT indicative]" in Matt24:36 (and parallels) is NOT conveying the idea that no one CAN EVER / WILL EVER know... ; Jesus has known ever since His resurrection / ascension / exaltation, and then some 60+ YEARS LATER supplied FURTHER detailed timing-info and time-stamps in the text throughout "The Revelation OF JESUS CHRIST, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM to shew unto..." (i.e. IN the Book of Rev), such that, one who is existing on the earth in that future time period CAN INDEED KNOW (if they will but heed His word--But as we know, many will NOT).

It says at such an hour as ye think not the Son of Man cometh.

 

[presidente]

Then we have the actual Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory" to execute judgment on earth. Two totally different objectives, hence two totally different comings.

Pre-tribbers have to show some evidence of two second coming events, and of a resurrection of the dead in Christ before the first resurrection. They don't have it. It's assumed. That's why these conversations go on and on.

As to survivors after the Rapture, the whole unbelieving world will remain on earth. As to survivors after the reign of the Antichrist, again the whole unbelieving world will take the mark. As to the battle of Gog and Magog, it has nothing to do with these events.

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[presidente]

2nd Coming is in the air -------to catch up His Saints

to catch up in the air the Saints before God sends 7 years of His wrath upon this earth -----

Pre Tribulation Rapture
https://www.openbible.info/topics/pre_tribulation_rapture

1 Thessalonians 4:17 ESV
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3rd coming ------which is called the 2nd coming ----bringing ----judgment ----and rewards

The Second Coming Of Jesus
https://www.openbible.info/topics/the_second_coming_of_jesus

Lots of great verses about the second coming in two lists. What is missing is evidence that the coming of Jesus is two separate.

Notice this verse from the rapture passage is in the second coming section:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ESV / 905 helpful votes
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

 

[JaumeJ]

Know it would be the imperative case.

 

[presidente]

Know it would be the imperative case.

what specifically?

 

[presidente]

Yes, for the most part. There might be some gentile that convert and somehow escape the blade, but probably not many.

Is there a reason to think that some who take the mark might not survive into the millenneum? Even if they ended up damned for it, their children might not be.