OSAS, When does salvation take place?

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Carful..
The pharisees also accused Jesus of casting out demons using the power of Satan, and Jesus told them doing so they had committed the unforgivable sin.

Mat 12:
22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.


Here in mat 7. Jesus did not say their works where illegitimate, only that they where not in the will of the Father in what they had done..

In Luke 11 Jesus sums up the will of the Father by Saying we must Love God with all of our ability to do so, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Meaning the sin these men committed was they broke the two greatest commands. So they may have legitly had the faith they needed to allow the Holy Spirit to work in them (Like Judas) But did not Love God or their fellow man as they should have.
Please don't avoid the questions. You questioned whether miracles could be done apart from God. I gave you a scriptural reference where it happened. And the unforgivable sin is to ascribe to the Holy Spirit the actions of the evil one.
 
No the text literally "says" That these men referenced preaching in His NAME, and performing MANY Miracles, which included casting out demons.

We are given a picture of what this job of casting out demons included and faith in Christ/having to use Christ's name was a big part of that:

Acts 19:13-16​

13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

How many miracles do you think they could do without belief in Jesus?
The text also says, "I NEVER knew you."
 
The text also says, "I NEVER knew you."

When a righteous person turns away from their righteousness and commits sin, all their righteous deeds will not be remembered, and they will die for their sins. This is stated in Ezekiel 18:21-28

This is why Jesus tells some "I never knew you"

Remember, the Lord gave us His righteousness to walk in (abiding in Christ) and some turn away from the Lord

2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us
 
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Are you judging my works or my motivations? What are you trying to say here?
lol, no im not judging you, why should I, me being so imperfect but trying very hard to be as GOD said, be Holy as I am HOLY. I am learning and trying to perfect myself but very far from God's standards.

These verses and parables come to mind as it should be as Christ told us it would be. it was not directed to you but to all, me included that we may be called and think we are saved but it is according to God's will and not out own. we need to persevere and be faithful to the end.


Blessings
 
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When a righteous person turns away from their righteousness and commits sin, all their righteous deeds will not be remembered, and they will die for their sins. This is stated in Ezekiel 18:21-28

This is why Jesus tells some "I never knew you"

Remember, the Lord gave us His righteousness to walk in (abiding in Christ) and some turn away from the Lord

2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us
That literally makes no sense and it's not what the verse says. You just make stuff up as you go along.
 
When a righteous person turns away from their righteousness and commits sin, all their righteous deeds will not be remembered, and they will die for their sins. This is stated in Ezekiel 18:21-28

This is why Jesus tells some "I never knew you"

Remember, the Lord gave us His righteousness to walk in (abiding in Christ) and some turn away from the Lord

2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us
Ezekiel is OT and written to Israel. There is a new covenant. Try to remember that.
 
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Ezekiel is OT and written to Israel. There is a new covenant. Try to remember that.

That was not part of the law of Moses.
It was teaching concerning the righteous and is still applicable today in the New Covenant.

You'd be right if this was something the Lord gave under the Law of Moses, but you're not because it's not.
 
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Please don't avoid the questions. You questioned whether miracles could be done apart from God. I gave you a scriptural reference where it happened. And the unforgivable sin is to ascribe to the Holy Spirit the actions of the evil one.
Cameron the magician in the courts od pharoh were not using power from God, they used it from demons that they followed they were quite evil and had nothing to do with God, of this I am certain.
 
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Ezekiel is OT and written to Israel. There is a new covenant. Try to remember that.
Ezekiel is OT written to Israel under the old covenant of law. In Ezekiel 18:29, we read - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

In Ezekiel 33:13, we read - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.

*The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that BELIEVES.
 
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Ezekiel is OT written to Israel under the old covenant of law. In Ezekiel 18:29, we read - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

In Ezekiel 33:13, we read - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.

*The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that BELIEVES.
Ezekiel addresses Israel's self-righteousness; Paul explains its ultimate solution in Christ.
I would frame it this way as this would be stronger exegetically than claiming Ezekiel 33 is directly teaching New Testament justification.
Ezekiel 33:13 is not directly teaching justification by faith versus justification by works.
Its immediate context is God's judgment of Israel under the law. However, the principle exposed in the passage is the same heart problem Paul later identifies in Romans 10:3: trusting in one's own righteousness instead of submitting to God's righteousness.
Paul then reveals that God's righteousness is found in Christ, "the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth" (Rom. 10:4)
 
Ezekiel addresses Israel's self-righteousness; Paul explains its ultimate solution in Christ.
I would frame it this way as this would be stronger exegetically than claiming Ezekiel 33 is directly teaching New Testament justification.
Ezekiel 33:13 is not directly teaching justification by faith versus justification by works.
Its immediate context is God's judgment of Israel under the law. However, the principle exposed in the passage is the same heart problem Paul later identifies in Romans 10:3: trusting in one's own righteousness instead of submitting to God's righteousness.
Paul then reveals that God's righteousness is found in Christ, "the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth" (Rom. 10:4)
Yes, same heart problem, trusting in one's own righteousness instead of submitting to God's righteousness. ⚠️

Yes, God's righteousness is found only in Christ. ✝️
 
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