Parable of the sower

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Forest

Guest
#41
#41
shroom2 said:
The scripture must harmonize, and they do.

None can stay His hand as far as God's plan for making available the salvation of man through Christ, and the coming millennial kingdom and final heaven and earth. It will happen. But He will not override a man's free will. If a person refuses to believe, in that situation God's hands are tied. He will not make them believe, nor will He save them without their choosing to believe.
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Eph 2:5, Even when we were dead (spiritually dead) in sins, hath he quickened us together with Christ. In that spiritually dead condition we had no desire to descern spiritual things, therefore man could not have chosen for God to quicken him, thats why it is called grace.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#42
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#42
Forest said:
Eph 2:5, Even when we were dead (spiritually dead) in sins, hath he quickened us together with Christ. In that spiritually dead condition we had no desire to descern spiritual things, therefore man could not have chosen for God to quicken him, thats why it is called grace.
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That is incorrect. God requires that we believe on His son and believe that God raised him from the dead. At that point He quickened us, made us spiritually alive by giving us holy spirit.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#43
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#43
Forest said:
I think it is a dangerous thing to try to say someone is of the elect and someone else is not of the elect, even though Jesus said we will know them by their fruits. Sometimes the non-elect will do things that seemingly is of the Spirit, but in effect, they are only doing it to promote themselves. David, when he was king, numbered Israel which was not pleasing to God and by his wrath killed a lot of people as punishment to David, by the way, he let David choose his own punishment from three choices. An interesting account found in 2 Samuel 24. So, I don't believe that we should try to number the elect, or say who is or who is not. I hope that answered your question, if not, let me know.
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You mean one can only know if oneself is elect, but no one else? Or can one not even know oneself to be elect? The question is then if people really are among the elect if they yet believe in false gospels and continuously are workers of iniquity until the end of their lives? Will it not be like a lottery? How can anyone have assurance if so?

I am not into anything such as numbering God's people or any speculations about who are among the elect or not. There may be many people who today are unbelievers or heretics that may be among the elect, that is for no man to speculate about. But I believe there are objectives (in beliefs, doctrine and life) that apply to the regenerated. The elect are not born regenerated at their physical birth.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#44
#44
tribesman said:
You mean one can only know if oneself is elect, but no one else? Or can one not even know oneself to be elect? The question is then if people really are among the elect if they yet believe in false gospels and continuously are workers of iniquity until the end of their lives? Will it not be like a lottery? How can anyone have assurance if so?

I am not into anything such as numbering God's people or any speculations about who are among the elect or not. There may be many people who today are unbelievers or heretics that may be among the elect, that is for no man to speculate about. But I believe there are objectives (in beliefs, doctrine and life) that apply to the regenerated. The elect are not born regenerated at their physical birth.
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You are right, no one is born a natural birth having a righteous nature, except Jesus and possiable John the baptist. Eph 2:2-3. God quickens his elect when they are still in that natural state, Eph 2:5. We, by the scriptures, have evidence that we are of the elect. If we are born of the Spirit, we will have thoughts of spiritual things, unlike the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14.
 
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Forest

Guest
#45
#45
Israel said:
Good answer.
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Only the elect of God are explained in the parable of the sower. The parable of the tares tells a different story. All mankind is not saved eternaly.
 
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Forest

Guest
#46
#46
tribesman said:
My question now then is whether you think there be any objectives in salvation? If God's children can be recognized or discerned at all (or not) by what they believe and teach and how regeneration has affected their lives? What I am thoughtful about here is that any view that lays justification wholly outside it surfacing in time tends to make the concept of salvation a lottery, as there are really no distinct marks of who is saved. How would you view this?
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If a person has a desire to know God, he is already born of the Spirit. The natural man will not seek after God 1 Cor 2:14. Ps 10:4, The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God. God is not in all his thoughts. These are evidences of the elect and the non-elect. I know that I have a hard time exlaining myself, so, if you have any more questions just ask me. The elect should show forth the fruits of the Spirit, Gal 5, that dwells within him.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#47
#47
shroom2 said:
The scripture must harmonize, and they do.

None can stay His hand as far as God's plan for making available the salvation of man through Christ, and the coming millennial kingdom and final heaven and earth. It will happen. But He will not override a man's free will. If a person refuses to believe, in that situation God's hands are tied. He will not make them believe, nor will He save them without their choosing to believe.
Click to expand...
That is an awfully sad way to think. At least my God accomplishes all his will and your's does not.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#48
#48
tribesman said:
You mean one can only know if oneself is elect, but no one else? Or can one not even know oneself to be elect? The question is then if people really are among the elect if they yet believe in false gospels and continuously are workers of iniquity until the end of their lives? Will it not be like a lottery? How can anyone have assurance if so?

I am not into anything such as numbering God's people or any speculations about who are among the elect or not. There may be many people who today are unbelievers or heretics that may be among the elect, that is for no man to speculate about. But I believe there are objectives (in beliefs, doctrine and life) that apply to the regenerated. The elect are not born regenerated at their physical birth.
Click to expand...
All of the elect children of God do not understand the whole doctrine of Christ and are going about trying to establish their own works of righteousness, such as Shroom does, but they are still of the elect. Many are called but few chosen. All of God's elect are called. but he does not call the non-elect. Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, and whom he called, them he also justified, and whom he justified, them he also glorified. All who he calls are predestinated, called, justified and glorified. The few are those who have been revealed the truth. The few has on the wedding garment, which is the truth, the wedding being the bride of Christ, the church who Christ is the husband of. There are many of God's elect who are not in Christ's church, only the remnant, the little flock, those who have ears to hear. I pray that I have made myself clear, if not don't hesitate to let me know.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#49
#49
tribesman said:
You mean one can only know if oneself is elect, but no one else? Or can one not even know oneself to be elect? The question is then if people really are among the elect if they yet believe in false gospels and continuously are workers of iniquity until the end of their lives? Will it not be like a lottery? How can anyone have assurance if so?

I am not into anything such as numbering God's people or any speculations about who are among the elect or not. There may be many people who today are unbelievers or heretics that may be among the elect, that is for no man to speculate about. But I believe there are objectives (in beliefs, doctrine and life) that apply to the regenerated. The elect are not born regenerated at their physical birth.
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Matt 7:13-14, The two gates is another example of Those of the elect who do not understand the full gospel (the wide gate) and those of God's elect that have been revealed the truth (the strait gate).
 
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shroom2

Banned
#50
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#50
Forest said:
That is an awfully sad way to think. At least my God accomplishes all his will and your's does not.
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My God loves, and gives every man a chance for salvation. Yours sentences people to destruction from before the foundation of the world.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#51
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#51
Forest said:
All of the elect children of God do not understand the whole doctrine of Christ and are going about trying to establish their own works of righteousness, such as Shroom does, but they are still of the elect. Many are called but few chosen. All of God's elect are called. but he does not call the non-elect. Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, and whom he called, them he also justified, and whom he justified, them he also glorified. All who he calls are predestinated, called, justified and glorified. The few are those who have been revealed the truth. The few has on the wedding garment, which is the truth, the wedding being the bride of Christ, the church who Christ is the husband of. There are many of God's elect who are not in Christ's church, only the remnant, the little flock, those who have ears to hear. I pray that I have made myself clear, if not don't hesitate to let me know.
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What you have made clear is that you do not understand God and the love He has for man.
 
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