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J
jennymae
Guest
Hmmm...from what I've been reading on here it is either an abomination or it is the Grace of God.
Now you know Mary was single and sitting at the Lords feet "hearing his word"
just maybe they can go home and ask him, no?
P
PeacefulWarrior
Guest
well said!..it is all in the "lens" we use as we view scripture ...and the question remains...do we need to look at who and why the writer of a letter is addressing the people involved...within their own social historical setting?...is there progressive understanding in things as well as we get to understand the heart of our Lord towards us believers?...
...why do we not go back and have slavery?..it is in the OT and NT....
I think this thing should be answered by each person individually and if a woman wearing "pants" and is teaching people bothers us...then just find another place to go hear the word from...or we could repent ( change our thinking/mind )...
...why do we not go back and have slavery?..it is in the OT and NT....
I think this thing should be answered by each person individually and if a woman wearing "pants" and is teaching people bothers us...then just find another place to go hear the word from...or we could repent ( change our thinking/mind )...
P
PeacefulWarrior
Guest
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3:28)
...therefore, women can teach men.
...therefore, women can teach men.
C
Chuckt
Guest
Researchers on gene therapy collaborate on Wikipedia. I don't know if they have a private site there or not.
I think you have just summed up one of the major differences between the religion of "Christianity", and "Following Jesus."
D
Depleted
Guest
You think they're "new people?"
My guess is Pantsman!
I'm not actually addressing him though. I'm addressing old people.
C
coby
Guest
You think they're "new people?"
My guess is Pantsman!
I'm not actually addressing him though. I'm addressing old people.
Oh but Pantsman always has the best threads!
K
kaylagrl
Guest
1 Cor.14- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church”
If we take this literally, it would mean that women are not allowed to sing in church nor respond when the pastor asks for comments or questions from the audience. Moreover, it would contradict what Paul said in chapter 11, where he said that women could pray and prophesy in church if they had the appropriate attire.Common sense, church custom, and good principles of biblical interpretation all say that we should not take these verses literally.
Paul is not making a blanket prohibition that says that women can never speak in church. Rather, he was addressing his comments to a certain situation, and his comments are limited in some way. The question is, What are the limits of Paul’s prohibition?
In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul begins to instruct the Corinthian church about their somewhat disorganized worship services. As we studied in our previous paper, he says that women should wear a head covering when they pray and prophesy; then he corrects the Corinthians on the way they had been observing the Lord’s Supper. In chapter 12, he addresses the proper use of spiritual gifts in the worship service. He describes a number of gifts, and insists that all gifts are important to the Body of Christ; the variety of gifts calls for mutual respect and honor, not vanity or shame.
In chapter 13, he describes love as the best way, and in chapter 14 he makes an extended contrast between the gift of tongues and the gift of prophesying. Apparently some people in Corinth were extolling the gift of tongues as a mark of superior spirituality. Paul did not tell them to stop speaking in tongues, but he did put some restrictions on how tongues should be used in the worship service.
Paul is apparently trying to give some organization to what had been a rather chaotic worship meeting—several people speaking at once, speaking words that no one could understand.
Paul notes that “the spirits of the prophets are subject to the control of the prophets” (1 Cor. 14:32). That is, the speakers are able to stop; they cannot use “God made me do it” as an excuse for adding to the commotion...Paul then tells the women to be quiet, and to ask their questions at home.
1) The first thing we notice is that women are not the only people Paul tells to be “silent.” He uses the same word in verses 28 and 30 to tell tongue-speakers and prophets to be silent when others speak. In both of those verses, he is calling for a temporary silence, not a complete and permanent prohibition.
2) Paul says that instead of speaking, women should be in submission. This implies that the Corinthian women were speaking in an insubordinate way. The fact that Paul said in chapter 11 that women could pray and prophesy, and in chapter 14 that two or three people could prophesy in a worship service, shows that women are allowed to have a slot in the speaking schedule. It is not insubordinate for them to speak prophecies; it is therefore likely that Paul is prohibiting some less-formal speaking, such as chatter or comments from the audience.
3)Paul addresses the problem by saying, “If they want to inquire about something…” This implies that the problem in Corinth concerning the asking of questions with a desire to learn something. Blomberg suggests, “Perhaps the largely uneducated women of that day were interrupting proceedings with irrelevant questions that would be better dealt with in their homes.”Belleville says, “Their fault was not in the asking per se but in the inappropriate setting for their questions.”
4) Paul says that it is “disgraceful” for women to talk in church. This word appeals to the Corinthians’ own sense of social propriety. He is saying that church custom (v. 33b), the law (v. 34), and social expectations (v. 35) all prohibit women from talking in church. The questions themselves are not wrong, for they can be asked at home, but it is disorderly to ask them in the worship service.
Paul has already indicated that women can pray and prophesy in church (chapter 11), and a worship service includes two or three people prophesying in turn (14:29-32). This means that it is permissible for women to have formal speaking roles in the church. Paul was apparently forbidding some other type of speech. Just as he did not allow tongue-speakers or prophets to speak out of turn, he did not want women to speak out of turn, saying things in such a way that they were breaking social customs about what is appropriate.
1) We know very little about how first-century churches functioned, except for what the New Testament tells us—and the picture is one of variety. Some churches were led by apostles and elders; others by prophets and teachers; some by overseers or elders or deacons. Although we know the names of a number of influential men and women, we can associate those names with specific titles in only a few cases. We know even less about how a typical worship service was conducted; 1 Cor. 14 is the primary evidence.
2)We have surveyed the Old Testament, and find no prohibition on women speaking in public.Scripture provides examples of women who had leadership roles in civil government, in publicly praising God, and in giving authoritative answers about spiritual matters to male civil leaders...Scripture does not require all women to submit to all men. The problem in Corinth probably involved either a) wives speaking against or dishonoring their husbands,or b) more generally, women acting disorderly and for that reason considered “not in submission.” The “law” that Paul mentions may be a civil law, or a New Testament rule.
It is reasonable to suggest that Paul is prohibiting the same kind of speech that he prohibits for tongues-speakers and prophets: out-of-turn speaking. While someone has the podium, the others should be quiet, not making loud comments, not calling out questions (no matter how well intentioned, and not having their own conversations, for any of those would be disgraceful in the eyes of the public, contrary to what God wants, and contrary to the way that other congregations functioned.
Although we cannot answer all questions about the specific situation Paul was addressing in Corinth, we do conclude that he was addressing a specific situation rather than making a general prohibition on women speaking in church. His intent was to prohibit disruptive and disrespectful questions and comments that were part of the chaotic Corinthian meetings—and in Corinth, these particular practices were coming from the women. Just as he told the disorderly tongues-speakers and prophets to control themselves because God is not a God of disorder, he also told the women to control themselves because the law teaches self-control. If they want to learn something, they can ask questions somewhere else.
[1] Paul uses the same Greek word that is translated “silent” in v. 34. James Hurley notes that “there is no intention that the first [person] should speak no more in the worship service. He or she may certainly sing hymns, pray, etc…. Paul left it to his readers to grasp the context”
[2] The NIV translation obscures the fact that Paul has used the same Greek word for silence. And again, Paul did not intend to prohibit all subsequent speaking by the person—he called for silence only for the immediate situation.
We can see in chapter 11 that Corinthian women had some behavioral problems that men did not have, and we have to consider the possibility that this might be true in chapter 14, too. We do not think that Paul unfairly singled women out; we therefore conclude that women were the ones who happened to be causing a problem in Corinth by talking and asking questions.
https://www.gci.org/church/ministry/women9
Paul was talking about disorder in the church service. The above explanation seems to be the most plausible taking into consideration the verses and chapter before hand.
D
Depleted
Guest
For something like this more covering than husband. There is God! And God has clearly said NOT. (So we are agreeing there.)
And notice who Deborah was. Definitely not a wallflower. She had chutzpah.
D
Depleted
Guest
To me it depends on what the woman is preaching. I support some. I don't support others -- just like men preachers. But we're talking pastors, not preachers. (And pastors often preach, but the preaching doesn't make them the pastor.)
D
Depleted
Guest
LOL
Most of us are home though, so... game on! LOL
Ooo, ooo. I just pictured the not-pretty scene if I was truly yelling while hubby was literally watching a game.
C
coby
Guest
You gave up? You don't listen to paster women? All those fabulous links I posted. Oh well. Youth pastor, lol we had one older woman when we had just started a new church with a lot of youth that came, who wanted to do the youth services. She had been a pastor's wife and knew absolutely everything abouth the youth. They were so sweet, her grandkids were in the youth group. No the sweeties didn't have any sexual thoughts grandma thought. Lol my ex did it himself. He had to break I don't know how many soul ties with some 'boys' who had been having illigitimate sex and teach them about that stuff. I think it's weird for a woman to do all that.
D
Depleted
Guest
No ways/no hows<------------------------>Free for alls
I think Women Youth Pastors lean closer to the Free for Alls end of the spectrum. I can tell you I'm not cool with women pastors, but youth pastors? Sure. We're supposed to train up the youth, so why not?
D
Depleted
Guest
I wish we could go back to biblical slavery. Hubby and I wouldn't be carrying the burden of "how much does all this cost" and Dad would be home instead of a nursing home. He'd actually still have his old home and it would still be worth something.well said!..it is all in the "lens" we use as we view scripture ...and the question remains...do we need to look at who and why the writer of a letter is addressing the people involved...within their own social historical setting?...is there progressive understanding in things as well as we get to understand the heart of our Lord towards us believers?...
...why do we not go back and have slavery?..it is in the OT and NT....
I think this thing should be answered by each person individually and if a woman wearing "pants" and is teaching people bothers us...then just find another place to go hear the word from...or we could repent ( change our thinking/mind )...
B
BeyondET
Guest
P
PeacefulWarrior
Guest
What?! If we went back to biblical slavery, we'd likely be building pyramids for Egypt...
D
Depleted
Guest
There are still Jews and still Gentiles, still slaves and still freeman, and... are you not a guy? (Keep reading on to the next chapter. Paul actually tells what he means, including the words, "I mean." lol) We all call him Daddy but that doesn't make us all the same.