-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D
Same thing our mother-denomination said in the 70's. (The reason my denomination broke off from her.) The mother-denomination started ordaining homosexuals in this decade. Soooo, it took 40 years before it happened to one denomination. Maybe the younger folk can keep track of the average in the next few decades.
It reminds me of something else used as an argument back then, "I am offended that you would even say women will have abortions as birth control. Women would NEVER consider such as you suggest. Honestly........I am actually insulted by this."
Now the homosexuals are saying roughly the same things about pedofiles.
It's called a slippery slope for a reason. It may not be the falling off the slope, MAYBE, but it is as close to the edge as possible that ultimately leads to falling off.
It reminds me of something else used as an argument back then, "I am offended that you would even say women will have abortions as birth control. Women would NEVER consider such as you suggest. Honestly........I am actually insulted by this."
Now the homosexuals are saying roughly the same things about pedofiles.
It's called a slippery slope for a reason. It may not be the falling off the slope, MAYBE, but it is as close to the edge as possible that ultimately leads to falling off.
D
This is where your logic fails here.
1. "I know men cannot have babies. I know father. He is not sexist and doesn't play favorites he will use whoever he sees fit for whatever he sees fit and knowing his nature I can't buy this whole sexist thing."
Alas, it has nothing to do with sexism. It has everything to do with how both genders carry things differently. God's playing to our strengths and helping us to fight our weaknesses.
Same thing he did with the contract he came up with for husbands and wives. No need to tell a wife to love him like Christ loves the church.
By nature, woman nurture and love, so we love as much as physically possible on the husband. The easiest way to take good care of someone is to protect them and make all the decisions for them. That one doesn't carry well with a husband. (it does to a degree when children are young.) So women were given submit.
Meanwhile, man's strength is to provide for their families. No need to tell them to submit. It comes with the territory. Farmers submit to the land, the seasons, the plants. Hunters submit to the ground the animals live off, the seasons the animals live there, and the animals themselves to kill them or avoid them. Modern working men submit to bosses or customers, if they want to provide. But in all that providing, which is their form of love, they forget their true purpose sometimes -- to love. So God has always understood his children are different and to work within those differences. That's not sexism.
2. "But as for authority wise I wouldn't say that a pastor is in a state of authority, a church to me is like family and everyone plays their part in it and is just as important as the next. If anyone is in authority within a church it's God not the pastor or anyone else, i think that the pastor is a teacher but I don't think that a pastor alone can run a church they need the rest of the family."
Then you complete dismiss the definition of pastor. A synonym is shepherd. Shepherds watch over and guide their sheep. They truly have authority over the sheep, although sheep are free to take or leave that authority. Sheep aren't as dumb as people think. They do, purposely, help one another. They know not to jump off a cliff simply because the pastor guides them to do so.
As a women, I know my human shepherds -- husband first, father second, pastor third. Don't give me some foreign pastor and think I'll jump. I don't even jump all the time for my God-given pastors. (My dad has dementia. I cannot follow where he'd take me now -- for his good and my good. But I will honor him.) T'ain't no way, I'm accepting a woman as a pastor of a church. If she doesn't know she doesn't have authority over men, then either I stumbled onto a women's only church, (which I have no business being in, since I'm married so go to HIS church), or she doesn't know scripture enough to lead. Even if she's older than I am, I'm not following.
I will listen to anyone who wants to teach me something, but that doesn't mean I'll give that person authority in me. That authority thingy IS covered in the Bible, God does know best, and I will trust him to lead me to sound leadership.
It's got nothing to do with who is more important. It has to do with my ever-continuing struggle to strengthen my submitting muscle, because I know, even with decades of practice, I don't have it down perfectly, and, even if I did, without use it merely weakens. I'm not letting that submitting muscle atrophy. Too much work getting it to look like a muscle already.
1. "I know men cannot have babies. I know father. He is not sexist and doesn't play favorites he will use whoever he sees fit for whatever he sees fit and knowing his nature I can't buy this whole sexist thing."
Alas, it has nothing to do with sexism. It has everything to do with how both genders carry things differently. God's playing to our strengths and helping us to fight our weaknesses.
Same thing he did with the contract he came up with for husbands and wives. No need to tell a wife to love him like Christ loves the church.
By nature, woman nurture and love, so we love as much as physically possible on the husband. The easiest way to take good care of someone is to protect them and make all the decisions for them. That one doesn't carry well with a husband. (it does to a degree when children are young.) So women were given submit.
Meanwhile, man's strength is to provide for their families. No need to tell them to submit. It comes with the territory. Farmers submit to the land, the seasons, the plants. Hunters submit to the ground the animals live off, the seasons the animals live there, and the animals themselves to kill them or avoid them. Modern working men submit to bosses or customers, if they want to provide. But in all that providing, which is their form of love, they forget their true purpose sometimes -- to love. So God has always understood his children are different and to work within those differences. That's not sexism.
2. "But as for authority wise I wouldn't say that a pastor is in a state of authority, a church to me is like family and everyone plays their part in it and is just as important as the next. If anyone is in authority within a church it's God not the pastor or anyone else, i think that the pastor is a teacher but I don't think that a pastor alone can run a church they need the rest of the family."
Then you complete dismiss the definition of pastor. A synonym is shepherd. Shepherds watch over and guide their sheep. They truly have authority over the sheep, although sheep are free to take or leave that authority. Sheep aren't as dumb as people think. They do, purposely, help one another. They know not to jump off a cliff simply because the pastor guides them to do so.
As a women, I know my human shepherds -- husband first, father second, pastor third. Don't give me some foreign pastor and think I'll jump. I don't even jump all the time for my God-given pastors. (My dad has dementia. I cannot follow where he'd take me now -- for his good and my good. But I will honor him.) T'ain't no way, I'm accepting a woman as a pastor of a church. If she doesn't know she doesn't have authority over men, then either I stumbled onto a women's only church, (which I have no business being in, since I'm married so go to HIS church), or she doesn't know scripture enough to lead. Even if she's older than I am, I'm not following.
I will listen to anyone who wants to teach me something, but that doesn't mean I'll give that person authority in me. That authority thingy IS covered in the Bible, God does know best, and I will trust him to lead me to sound leadership.
It's got nothing to do with who is more important. It has to do with my ever-continuing struggle to strengthen my submitting muscle, because I know, even with decades of practice, I don't have it down perfectly, and, even if I did, without use it merely weakens. I'm not letting that submitting muscle atrophy. Too much work getting it to look like a muscle already.
D
Sure we can, but the directions on where and when are specific enough to know we can't on any given Sunday to all the men in the congregation. Tell me you never learned from a woman on this site. Tell me you don't have a single "Momma said" in your repertoire, or your grandmother's, or older women who seem like Mom or Grandmom.
There's a reason God uses women to be Mom and to be teachers of the younger. We can teach! Even men. But pastor goes beyond teaching. Sometimes pastors don't even teach lesson plans. Just because we shouldn't be pastors doesn't mean we shouldn't teach. It's who we teach and when that matters.
And if it is a mission and there is no guys around, the mission better be something other than pastoring. 49% of the world is men. They're always around.
There's a reason God uses women to be Mom and to be teachers of the younger. We can teach! Even men. But pastor goes beyond teaching. Sometimes pastors don't even teach lesson plans. Just because we shouldn't be pastors doesn't mean we shouldn't teach. It's who we teach and when that matters.
And if it is a mission and there is no guys around, the mission better be something other than pastoring. 49% of the world is men. They're always around.
D
Because you were born and raised into post-modern humanism, and that is firmly against male authority. And I'm not saying I was raised any better. BUT we have to start using our minds to differentiate between the junk the world has evangelized us into believing and what God says. I'm still fighting that fight in my mind. First step is to recognize it as a problem.
D
Mrs. OldethenNew, ('cuz Mr. can be on this account next lol), has God ever, ever called you to be a pastor?
That's the difference. I firmly believe God does call us in instances to do all sorts of things outside our comfort zone. (I've done it too.) But, no way, no how does he ever call us to be pastors.
That's the difference. I firmly believe God does call us in instances to do all sorts of things outside our comfort zone. (I've done it too.) But, no way, no how does he ever call us to be pastors.
D
Boy, you really pulled the Abraham and Sarah episode out of what you left. Sure God told Abraham to listen to Sarah, after he already listened to her years before, truly blundered big time, and now God was saving the boy's life!
In both cases, the wife did talk her husband into something truly foolish and God was working with the husband to smooth out the botch job. Neither are great examples of the brilliance of women. Neither should be used out of context. And even here, the context is should women be pastors and neither Eve nor Sarah further that cause. (Might have helped prove why women shouldn't be pastors, but that's stretching it too.)
And wisdom and folly are personified in Proverbs, not really women.
In both cases, the wife did talk her husband into something truly foolish and God was working with the husband to smooth out the botch job. Neither are great examples of the brilliance of women. Neither should be used out of context. And even here, the context is should women be pastors and neither Eve nor Sarah further that cause. (Might have helped prove why women shouldn't be pastors, but that's stretching it too.)
And wisdom and folly are personified in Proverbs, not really women.
D
And yet, that same God taught this:
1 Cor. 7:20 Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called. 21 Were you a bondservant when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) 22 For he who was called in the Lord as a bondservant is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a bondservant of Christ. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men. 24 So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.
Context matters. All of the context. The whole book.
1 Cor. 7:20 Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called. 21 Were you a bondservant when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) 22 For he who was called in the Lord as a bondservant is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a bondservant of Christ. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men. 24 So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.
Context matters. All of the context. The whole book.
C
Not talking about women's rights. Women need a covering, their husband should agree if they preach or they are both the pastors and she teaches the women but also everyone, see no problem with that. A woman as a real single pastor rebuking the older men like a father like Timothy, with no men above her, hmm I don't think it's Biblical. Just trying to figure it out though. I may be wrong.
D
Fun fact, it was a woman preacher (joyce meyer) that led me to Christ in the wee hours of the morning while I was getting ready for work. My cell phone died that morning. Like it went kaput completely. So in stead of listening to my usual deathmetal music that morning, I sat down a flipped on the TV and for the first time ever I sat and watched her program..... The rest is well, all God. 