Paster Women?

[notuptome]

Make it easy for you, you can answer simply yes or no...,

1. Can an unmarried or divorced man be a pastor?

2. Can a man whose children are not Christian or have blatant disregard for Christian morals (drunkeness, promiscuity, etc.) be a pastor?

No. If you believe the bible no. See Paul's admonition to Timothy 2 Tim 2+3.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I watched the first fourteen minutes of it and basically the people holding to the egalitarian position (female pastors) were polled and didn't believe things like Job was a real person or that Jonah was really swallowed by a whale. So what I see is basically that a lot of liberals that don't believe the Bible hold to a egalitarianism position of the Bible. So basically they are keeping company with unbelievers. Those who don't believe the whole Bible are determining people's faith.

Huh?? There was nothing about a poll in the speech that man gave...and I don't remember a single thing about Job or Jonah in his message. When I listen, I really listen, and I didn't hear any of that! Are we talking about the same video? I'm talking about one that PW posted pages back. I reposted it. They, both the man and the woman who got up to speak later, were talking about the history and culture more than anything else.

And the article - oh wait, it was not PW, it was Grace777 that posted these - the article asks about positions of theologians on certain things Paul said. They are in...two different camps, but both of the camps sort of agree. If you read it, you see their positions are different BUT boil down to the same result. I don't recall Job or Jonah anywhere in the article OR the video....scratching my head here, chuck...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Sorry I read the article and didn't see how it would convince anyone from the opposing side and from the sound of it the video does more harm then help in the discussion....everyone is asleep and don't really care for videos anyway.

Jonah was swallowed by a fish and Job was a real person. God has used women and men both to do His work in this world.

Why such strong opposition to women pastors? Do you object as strongly to single men being pastors or men whose children get drunk, commit adultery, etc being pastors?

Because if you are okay with those men being pastors, then you are a hypocrite and don't follow the scriptures you quote forbidding women pastors.

Or you can explain how you can make exception to how the scriptures say that a bishop must have one wife, manage an orderly household and have obedient children?

Okay, you are the second person now who says they were talking about how Job and Jonah aren't real so I now have to go watch the video again because I'm being honest here - I LITERALLY did NOT hear them saying that! I'm flummoxed. I'll listen again...

 

[JosephsDreams]

Huh?? There was nothing about a poll in the speech that man gave...and I don't remember a single thing about Job or Jonah in his message. When I listen, I really listen, and I didn't hear any of that! Are we talking about the same video? I'm talking about one that PW posted pages back. I reposted it. They, both the man and the woman who got up to speak later, were talking about the history and culture more than anything else.

And the article - oh wait, it was not PW, it was Grace777 that posted these - the article asks about positions of theologians on certain things Paul said. They are in...two different camps, but both of the camps sort of agree. If you read it, you see their positions are different BUT boil down to the same result. I don't recall Job or Jonah anywhere in the article OR the video....scratching my head here, chuck...

I think he was referring to another video. I don't reacall that either.
Phil never responded if he was praying for us or not.
Chuck, as much as I like him, has not directly responded to my questions from about a zillion posts ago, which are essentially the same line of thinking that the video pointed out.
KJV has just quit the thread altogether without ever a explanation backed by scripture.
We had someone on here who said things that made some of the females uncomfortable.
You, SW, AA, JIA, nutso, and others have all made enlightening explanations. I think we've covered just about every angle.
For me, this thread is devolving into a bad habit. It has become a more lengthier discourse then the book of Job.
And like Job, it is just beginning to veer into the realm of rehash. It is becoming like that movie Groundhog Day.
Unless someone(s) can post other arguments from other sources, I don't see the point. But I will probably be back just out of curiosity.
Tongues; you know you just set yourself up.
The naysayers here will say good your on a thread that teaches a woman how to quiet them...

 

[phil112]

............................Phil never responded if he was praying for us or not...................................

I don't stay on this forum constantly now that I'm able to be more active.
You often will not get an immediate response. And I often do not come back to a thread.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

Everyday.

Mark 8:23-25 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

I pray that the Lord will restore your vision so that you will be able to see as you should.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Oh Jd, is it bad that I'm laughing? You just don't know what else to do. Like you said, at a certain point it just becomes like Groundhog Day. You can see very clearly that there is just not an openness there and that something actually PREVENTS them from even hearing you or watching a video. When you compound that with a skipping around, not reading all posts, you just have to shrug your shoulders at some point and move on I guess?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Oh and, Jd, I listened to that same man speak on tongues. Greg Boyd. He was very informative and SANE about it! Very helpful to someone like me who has never received that gift.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

No. If you believe the bible no. See Paul's admonition to Timothy 2 Tim 2+3.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I'm glad our society has restored the status of women to their rightful place as human beings as opposed to the property of men.

Also thankful I was not born in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.

 

[Depleted]

I attribute to God everything that is consistent with the values and desires demonstrated by God through God's actions in the Bible, in the time since then, and in our modern time. Basically, does it bring people closer to God, to God's truth, love, and life? Does it bring people closer to eachother at the same time as well? Or does it tear them apart or allow them to remain distant? Does it allow them to 'honor God with their lips while their hearts are far from him' (matthew 15:8) or does it demonstrate the heart of passion and character we see in Christ?

There are various ways to recognize God's involvement -- the fruit of the spirit (galatians 5:22-23), the qualities of 'wisdom from above' (james 3:17), the description of Love (1 corinthians 13:4-7), the fruit of our actions (matthew 7:16) and our love for eachother (john 15:35) and even the description of wisdom (proverbs 8).

You decide what is or isn't from the Holy Spirit by knowing the Holy Spirit. Developing that relationship involves risk, like stepping out of a boat and walking on water. Ironically, walking by faith to know God, is safer than using scripture by itself, as a kind of boat. Peter was safer walking with Jesus on the water, than he was in a man-made boat which was otherwise at the mercy of storms.

That said, boats aren't bad -- Jesus used them and he built stuff for people to use too. But the things God gave us are not a replacement for direct reliance on God.

If your idea of God is what brings people closer to each other, I really won't be following your way of interpreting. But thanks for explaining it. It also helps to see what your gospel is.

 

[Depleted]

Uh ohhh is this discussion going down the "toss certain parts out of the Bible you don't feel is right" rabbit hole?

I really advise folks from following that piper...

Yeah, well, I figure some folks have already dipped into Wonderland and don't want to be pulled out. My arm isn't long enough to pull them out, so I'll pray God does.

(You do realize the rabbit hole is where the fighting throughout this came from, right? It's really not important enough to end fellowship over, but if you keep interpreting scripture to fit your mood, it will always end up in the same place -- the rabbit hole. Pretty much why this is now 90 pages long.)

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

If your idea of God is what brings people closer to each other, I really won't be following your way of interpreting. But thanks for explaining it. It also helps to see what your gospel is.

That's not what he said.

He said his idea of God is everything learned about God via Bible.

 

[Depleted]

Someone, I think it was Depleted, mentioned we were specifically talking about pastors, and woman prophets don't count as being in authority. I wonder, were Moses and the other OT prophets not considered to be in authority? What about Deborah?



excerpt from a blog (not mine):

T'weren't me. I keep bringing it back to pastors, but everyone is determined to carry that on to all other offices and ministries. Deborah was talked about somewhere in the first quarter of this ever increasing thread.

After this many pages, assume everything was covered and still half of it is going off topic. (Albeit, I do love M&M's, so don't have problems with off-topic. lol)

 

[Depleted]

I'm beginning to see that some people just aren't willing to do the work of looking at a video or reading an article. They already have their minds made up and they aren't really interested in any new scholarship, even though we were told that in the last days knowledge would increase. I guess it feels better to them to remain where they are and continue in their same patterns. It's sad, but...you can't help someone not willing to do a little work. So now I'm off to tackle another problem area for me - tongues! (As if I didn't learn enough about the tongue in here!)

This has been a good and productive thread! Ciao!

Them pesky inferior folks again, huh?

Truth is I don't click on most links. (I did click one, but it was Germany -- I think. I'm a monoglot. lol) Tell me what it's about and then tell me why I want to click it and I might. But as far as educating me -- if I want the education -- I look for it from unbiased sources. Or, I'll listen to and participate in the debate, until someone tells me something that piques my interest. But propaganda videos on YouTube? Not even if the propaganda leans to my beliefs.

I figured it out. Here's the scripture that fits you:
‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

 

[Ariel82]

Women must have a covering. We had one single woman in a church years ago. She just started her own ministry. She prayed for people to be delivered from the devil. Noone asked her, this was apart from the church, she just did it herself.
The devil almost ate her, she had to stop it.

Off topic but I wanted to comment that casting out demons does not mean the person is saved. Jesus said "I do not know you" to people who claimed to cast out demons in His name, because if they don't receive the Holy,Spirit then 7 demons will come and,take their place and,they will be worst off than when they started.

 

[Ariel82]

No. If you believe the bible no. See Paul's admonition to Timothy 2 Tim 2+3.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Even though I don't agree, I can respect that position because you are consistent in your beliefs.

Out of curiosity, how does your church deal with divorced people or pastors who no longer for the requirements?

For example I know a pastor whose son molested a girl and went to jail. Should the pastor have been removed from his church?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Them pesky inferior folks again, huh?

Truth is I don't click on most links. (I did click one, but it was Germany -- I think. I'm a monoglot. lol) Tell me what it's about and then tell me why I want to click it and I might. But as far as educating me -- if I want the education -- I look for it from unbiased sources. Or, I'll listen to and participate in the debate, until someone tells me something that piques my interest. But propaganda videos on YouTube? Not even if the propaganda leans to my beliefs.

I figured it out. Here's the scripture that fits you:
‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

Depleted, I won't talk to you when you're in this state, not speaking kindly or gently, rip-roaring all over everyone, popping in and out and arrogantly making all these sarcastic remarks.

If you want to have discourse with me I am glad to do that. But it's not going to happen this way.

Then again, you maybe don't want to talk to me at all and that's okay too. But I am explaining why I won't be answering posts like these until, or if, you stop speaking in this manner to everyone.

 

[Depleted]

I can answer the questions.
People hold wide and diverse positions on divorce.
I also know people who were non-Christian who were divorced and now who are Christian who are walking better than they were non-Christian.
And I know one Christian who made good arguments for being a pastor after divorce from the Word and the information was probably over a page except I'm not sure where it is on my thumbdrive but I have a good idea. What I can say is despite the problems of the past, they are doing more for the gospel than people here are doing.

Good. You can answer her questions. I'm listening too, because so far, you haven't. All you did here, for example, is give antidotal responses.

I don't believe women should be pastors, but Ariel has really good questions and I would like answers myself.

 

[Depleted]

Ariel's really good questions:

Make it easy for you, you can answer simply yes or no...,

1. Can an unmarried or divorced man be a pastor?

2. Can a man whose children are not Christian or have blatant disregard for Christian morals (drunkeness, promiscuity, etc.) be a pastor?

 

[Depleted]

Why? My ex can pastor a church, but me pastoring a church as a single divorced woman, I mean with noone above me, just start it yourself, neh. Nymfa, she had Paul above her.

If it helps any, your ex shouldn't be pastoring a church either. (Ex. Really kills the list of things a person should be to be a pastor right there.)

 

[Depleted]

Depleted, I won't talk to you when you're in this state, not speaking kindly or gently, rip-roaring all over everyone, popping in and out and arrogantly making all these sarcastic remarks.

If you want to have discourse with me I am glad to do that. But it's not going to happen this way.

Then again, you maybe don't want to talk to me at all and that's okay too. But I am explaining why I won't be answering posts like these until, or if, you stop speaking in this manner to everyone.

How many others will you get banned from passive aggressive? You laid down charges that NU was a pervert. I countered. You laid down charges that Elizabeth was having trouble with her husband. I countered. And then found out that was all about me. She doesn't even have a husband. You charged everyone but you were too lazy to watch links. I countered. Just because you mask your contempt for anyone who disagrees with you with flowery Christianese doesn't make what you're doing right. It doesn't even make it Christian.

I've been on this thread since the beginning. You?
So stop making yourself so

because it is clear you're not. This isn't sarcasm. This is clear, aggressive, and not even subtle. And, it's to you. I treat each person as an individual.

As for what state I'm in? Pennsylvania!

Now THAT was sarcastic, just so you get the difference.