Paul's gospel.

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JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
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#41
He never spoke of having to keep the law or any form of legalism, nor did he teach the gospel of the kingdom.
This is not true.
Romans 6:15-16
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Romans 7:
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law(Torah) sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law.(Torah) For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,065
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#42
The Father sends his Son, and we say it's Jesus' gospel. Jesus sends Paul, so Paul said, Romans 2:16, "My gospel. Paul also speaks of it as "our gospel," 2 Thessalonians 2:14.
The context of" OUR" is what Christ has commissioned us to Preach, which is HIS Gospel, which makes it ours to do. Paul was never suggesting he was bringing a different good news other than to the Gentiles, which the Jews did not want.


If one thinks pauls preached a different Gospel than what HE said HE was given to them. that is very clear in


1cor chapter 2

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Romans is even more clear:

Chapter one:



1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God

2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,216
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Midwest
#43
@10-22-27 said:
"He never spoke of having to keep the law or any form of legalism,
nor did he teach the gospel of the kingdom."

Correct, Agree, there Are Two Different gospels:
This is not true.
Romans 6:15-16...Romans 7:7-8
...good verses, yes, but Also, let us Neither forget his explanations of

A) knowing "the purpose" of the law:

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,​
but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for​
sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and​
murderers of mothers, for manslayers" (1 Timothy 1:9)​
+
B) our position, as "righteous in The Body Of Christ":

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for​
ye are not under the law, but under Grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because​
we are not under the law, but under Grace? God forbid.​
+
C) How we, righteous, although 'not under the law,' "Fulfil All the law":

"...in ONE Word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."​
(Galatians 5:15)​
Thus, This "Simplicity Of Christ," In God's New "Gospel Of Grace," requires:

no self-righteous legalism of men, nor the Old requirements of
"faith PLUS works" found in God's Other previous "gospel of the kingdom".

Also see: I have decided to follow Jesus?

Two Different Gospels!

Amen.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,233
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#44
@10-22-27 said:
"He never spoke of having to keep the law or any form of legalism,
nor did he teach the gospel of the kingdom."

Correct, Agree, there Are Two Different gospels:

...good verses, yes, but Also, let us Neither forget his explanations of

A) knowing "the purpose" of the law:

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,​
but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for​
sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and​
murderers of mothers, for manslayers" (1 Timothy 1:9)​
+
B) our position, as "righteous in The Body Of Christ":

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for​
ye are not under the law, but under Grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because​
we are not under the law, but under Grace? God forbid.​
+
C) How we, righteous, although 'not under the law,' "Fulfil All the law":

"...in ONE Word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."​
(Galatians 5:15)​
Thus, This "Simplicity Of Christ," In God's New "Gospel Of Grace," requires:

no self-righteous legalism of men, nor the Old requirements of
"faith PLUS works" found in God's Other previous "gospel of the kingdom".

Also see: I have decided to follow Jesus?

Two Different Gospels!

Amen.
Nope

ONE GOSPEL NOT TWO.

The whole "Two Gospels " theology is one of hate and violence and racism....

God is love...not hate!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#45
Nope

ONE GOSPEL NOT TWO.

The whole "Two Gospels " theology is one of hate and violence and racism....

God is love...not hate!
There‘s only one gospel message unto eternal salvation, that is, how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. I think Grace would agree with me.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,233
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#47
If you don't understand why I'm am VERY much against the "Two gospel " theology...

Then you don't know what you are talking about...and I wouldn't do that if I was you.

Two gospel theology is all about racism, hate, and violence....do you support such things? If not...then never say it again.

Because there is only One Gospel. One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
God has never been a racist.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,233
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#48
I understand that you were probably trying to assist....and that's fine.

But I've run across this "two gospel " crowd before....you want Nothing to do with them.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,216
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Midwest
#49
Yes, the disciples had no understanding of the cross. They were under the thought that the Messiah would come and deliver them from their enemies, restore the kingdom of Israel, so the Jews could serve God without fear. This is good news for the Jews. This is the message Jesus and his disciples were preaching. It is called the gospel of the kingdom, the preaching of the kingdom of heaven. That message is different than Paul's message to the Gentile world.
I agree; I see that in God's Previous program of prophecy / covenants / law,
to the twelve apostles, for the [ earthly ] twelve tribes of Israel.

I also strive to study properly, and not mix that up [ Confusion ], but:

Rightly Divide (2 Timothy 2:15) it From “Things That Differ!” (online):

Which are found In God's Other Context:
There‘s only one gospel message unto eternal salvation, that is, how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. I think Grace would agree with me.
Certainly do; and to clarify This "only One Gospel Of Grace" is for us, Today,
The One [ Heavenly ] Body Of Christ, who are Under Grace, Not 'under law',
and Never understood by anyone Before being Committed To One apostle,
Paul in The Revelation Of The Mystery.

Precious brother, thanks for sharing Encouraging And Edifying
Truth of The Precious Word Of God.

Amen.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#50
There are apparent differences between Paul’s Gospel and the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and most of John. In this period, Paul was persecuting Christians.

After his conversion, he focused on the finished work of the cross and a gospel of grace. He never spoke of having to keep the law or any form of legalism, nor did he teach the gospel of the kingdom.

Jesus sent the 12 apostles to the Jews, and they spoke repeatedly of the kingdom of God and Christ, as did the Lord. Paul taught primarily to the Gentiles and, to a lesser extent, the Jews. He spoke of the resurrection of the saints and the rapture of the faithful.

Paul’s letters were progressive works of learning. His earlier letters were milk, being spoon-fed to baby Christians. But, as the years passed, he revealed mysteries to the Gentile church, secrets hidden in eternity past but now revealed by the Holy Spirit, and only now did the church begin to mature, growing in knowledge and understanding.

After Paul passed away, John received more secrets and mysteries that God revealed to him in the book of Revelation. The four gospels spoke repeatedly of the kingdom of God, that Jesus was the long-awaited Messiah the Jews had been waiting for, and that He, as their King, was ready to bring in the kingdom. But the Jews rejected him and then killed him. Not all Jews were set aside, but the Lord did commission Paul to bring the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles.

Romans 11:1-2, “I (Paul) say then, Hath God cast away his (the Jews) people? God forbid. --- God hath not cast away his people which He foreknew.”

There has always been a remnant of faithful New Testament Jews, beginning with the twelve. The Christian church, consisting of believing Jews and Gentiles, is built upon this foundation.

Paul writes, Ephesians 2:21-22, “Now, therefore, you (Gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints (Jews,) --- And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone. In whom all the building fitly framed together (being joined together) groweth unto a holy temple (one body) in the Lord.”

1 Corinthians 3:10, Paul was called a wise master builder, “I (Paul) have laid the foundation, and another (others that follow) builds thereon.”

Another issue never found in the four gospels is the mention of “The body of Christ.” But in Paul’s later letters, he often refers to the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13-27, “For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Verse 27, “Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular.”

Ephesians 1:20-23-24, Jesus, raised by the Father, seated at His right hand, above all principality, power, might, dominion, and above every name, in this world, and the world to come. All things are now under His feet, and head of the church. The church (Jew and Gentile) is his body, the fullness of Jesus that fills all in all.

When that last Christian is saved, Jesus Christ Himself will be complete, one head, one body.
I would like to clarify what I believe many have carelessly read in my original post. I never said there were two gospels, what I said is, "There are apparent differences between Paul’s Gospel and the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and most of John." Two examples can be found in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, Paul writes, "I show you a mystery," something new is being told to the church. And,

1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews of Gentiles." What he's saying, the middle wall of partition has been taken down between the Jews and Gentiles.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#51
Perhaps were to have said something like Paul's handling of the Gospel, or his rendering of It, it would have been received gladly.
All the Books of the four Gospels are simply that, renditions.

PS We all render the Gospel in the manner given each of us for we each have different facets of the same understanding, but the jewel is always intact.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,158
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#52
Soyeong, I agree with most of what you have written. but you did leave out a whole bunch "ifs." Obviously, the children of Abraham fell by the wayside. He sent in the Assyrians to destroy the 10 Northern tribes because of their sin. He sent in Nebuchadnezzar to destroy the two Southern tribes. He sent in the Roman Legions to again destroy Jerusalem and the Temple and for the next 1900 years have been under a curse because of their disobedience and idol worship. Malachi the last of the Old Testament prophets wrote in Malachi 2:2, "If you will not hear, and if you will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, said the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart."

To this day they remain under a curse, and sad to say, the worse is yet to come. They have broken the law they were under, they rejected their Messiah, and to this day, as a people, they have not repented of their sin, especially the sin of murdering their King and High priest.
Amen you can only know that story by reading the law and prophecy whole prophecies and not as many do take a verse out of the prophecy and then try to figure out how it fits into today

hes always actually saying something actually expressing what he thinks and feels regarding isreal all along he loves then with an everlasting love but they won’t repent

“Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

like many today israel can’t get past the written law of Moses and see the lord

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#53
Many seem to overlook the teaching that we are not the original vine, rather we are grafted into it. We are not to lord it over the original vine.

We are the Israel of God, all who believe, the Jew first and then the Greek. It is a sad sitiuation when one who wishes to follow Christ is not aware of this. Pontius Pilate was not aware of what he was saying when he had inscriped over Jesus Yeshua's Body on the Cross, King of the Jews for a true Jew is any who truly prase God. It is not simply one of the Twelve Tribes.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,158
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#54
When you explain here, it becomes more believable that Pau is referring to the Gospel of Jesus Yeshua, thank you. May God bless you with more of this wisdom to share with us all.
Consider what Jesus was saying here

“But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: and ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7, 12-14‬ ‭

Jesus said there was going to be more for his chosen witnesses to reveal this brother is what Paul’s doctrine is it works like this first you hear Jesus

That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then you hear his servant and witness Paul

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then Your meant to recall what you heard in the gospel about being set free

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then you hear Paul talking About that

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The issue isn’t what pul was saying brother it’s what false teachers nd people who don’t understand what Paul wrote that distort and misuse his words paup needs to be read in chapters listening to the po te he’s making remembering the gospel that’s supposed to be written in our hearts that Jesus spoke first Paul’s words are revealing more of what Jesus was saying it’s the same with Peter or John they are by his own design revealing more of the gospel because they couldn’t understand alot of it until they received the Holy Spirit

pauls main role is as a revelator of what Jesus was saying beforehand he’s elaborating and further explaining to the church the things jesus taught it was what the apostles were appointed to do and why they were given the Holy Ghost and the revelations they received