Paul's Revelation Gospel
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Paull gave his opinion on marriage, and on how women should cover their heads because the man is her head and Jesus is his head. None of this is Godpel but traqdition.
He talks of how if a person takes a spouse who does not believe it is alright but preferbl not to. These are all new rules laid down by his thinking, though he does not demand it.
Yes, Paul does give a lot of opinion not based on the freedom of the liberty in Christ but on the traditions, harmless as they may have been of men.
I do not think it harmless to separte people so easily but perhaps I do not fully understand this mentor of so any.
.
I see no reson for more discussion here. You know what I say is correct providing you have red teh epistles.
As for chapter and verse, these too are introduced into scripture by men.
Seems like you are saying that "after the reformation"(whatever that means), there is no longer any "Jew?"
From my experience the meaning of the reformation a critical key for understanding the gospel has all but been forgotten .Its almost as it has not happened. It think it has to do with dispensationalist in their need for the phrase Church age to keep a division between a Jew and a Gentile, male and female .
The nation is still here. The Jew as not converted are reckoned as antichrists. The need to be used a shadows came to a end . They were cut off placing them in the same place as a gentile( unconverted )
After the reformation means that the temporal time period of Kings had come to an end. The Jews that were used as shadows or metaphors as a historically true parable (historically true yet used as a parable hid the spiritual understanding) for the time then present. It had come to an end. The use of their carnal flesh as a shadow had served it purpose ending the separation between a Jew and a gentile. Jews as non Christians today are as gentiles (heathens) or natural unconverted man.
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure for the "time" then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the "time of reformation".Hebrews 9:8-10
Note... signifying...………... using the temporal things seen to represent the unseen eternal things of God.(2 Corinthians 4:18
Note... figure...…..parable used to hide the spirutl understanding from natual unconverted man Mark4:11
Note.....reformation.... the restoring order returning to a previous time period Hebrews 9:10
There are many verses that support the cutting off of using the flesh of a Jew as a shadow. The time of fruit had come to a end.
Matthew 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
Mark 11:19-21 King James Version (KJV) And when even was come, he went out of the city. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Everyone not born again are shown as heathens (gentiles)
They that walk by sight have a distain for the Christians, still showing their jealousy for the new creatures. They are still hoping God will perform a miracle like as circus seal to confirm a hope that their flesh will profit for something .Like a gentile they have no faith.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, "that we may see", and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Just so much "fluff", as to provide just so much "eye candy" in the printed text? It's alright, for some one to say they don't know, concerning a matter. But, isn't it just a bit "sophmoric", to provide such a circular "non answer?"
From my experience the meaning of the reformation a critical key for understanding the gospel has all but been forgotten .Its almost as it has not happened. It think it has to do with dispensationalist in their need for the phrase Church age to keep a division between a Jew and a Gentile, male and female .
The nation is still here. The Jew as not converted are reckoned as antichrists. The need to be used a shadows came to a end . They were cut off placing them in the same place as a gentile( unconverted )
After the reformation means that the temporal time period of Kings had come to an end. The Jews that were used as shadows or metaphors as a historically true parable (historically true yet used as a parable hid the spiritual understanding) for the time then present. It had come to an end. The use of their carnal flesh as a shadow had served it purpose ending the separation between a Jew and a gentile. Jews as non Christians today are as gentiles (heathens) or natural unconverted man.
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure for the "time" then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the "time of reformation".Hebrews 9:8-10
Note... signifying...………... using the temporal things seen to represent the unseen eternal things of God.(2 Corinthians 4:18
Note... figure...…..parable used to hide the spirutl understanding from natual unconverted man Mark4:11
Note.....reformation.... the restoring order returning to a previous time period Hebrews 9:10
There are many verses that support the cutting off of using the flesh of a Jew as a shadow. The time of fruit had come to a end.
Matthew 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
Mark 11:19-21 King James Version (KJV) And when even was come, he went out of the city. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Everyone not born again are shown as heathens (gentiles)
They that walk by sight have a distain for the Christians, still showing their jealousy for the new creatures. They are still hoping God will perform a miracle like as circus seal to confirm a hope that their flesh will profit for something .Like a gentile they have no faith.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, "that we may see", and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Just so much "fluff", as to provide just so much "eye candy" in the printed text? It's alright, for some one to say they don't know, concerning a matter. But, isn't it just a bit "sophmoric", to provide such a circular "non answer?"
^ I think I've written something about "the fig tree" passages in past posts, but if not here it is again.
Isaiah 5:7 says, "For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel..."
Then Luke 13:6 states,
"6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted IN his vineyard [i.e. Israel]; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none."
This shows there is a clear distinction between the "a fig tree" and the "vineyard," so that if "the vineyard" is "[the house of] Israel," as Isaiah 5:7 says it is, then the "a fig tree" must be identified as something else BESIDES "Israel" (but related TO it, and as "PLANTED IN" it). I believe that would have more specifically to do with the [specific] leadership and/or the Law[-related things], than to be referring to the Jews/Israel themselves [persons / nation itself], and when reading the parts of the Scripture SURROUNDING these "fig tree parables," that becomes more apparently so [or, at least, much more "likely"]
[Heb 7:12 - "12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."]
Isaiah 5:7 says, "For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel..."
Then Luke 13:6 states,
"6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted IN his vineyard [i.e. Israel]; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none."
This shows there is a clear distinction between the "a fig tree" and the "vineyard," so that if "the vineyard" is "[the house of] Israel," as Isaiah 5:7 says it is, then the "a fig tree" must be identified as something else BESIDES "Israel" (but related TO it, and as "PLANTED IN" it). I believe that would have more specifically to do with the [specific] leadership and/or the Law[-related things], than to be referring to the Jews/Israel themselves [persons / nation itself], and when reading the parts of the Scripture SURROUNDING these "fig tree parables," that becomes more apparently so [or, at least, much more "likely"]
[Heb 7:12 - "12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."]
Romans 11:25-29 -
"25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them [Israel], when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they [Israel] are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [/irrevocable]."
[Hosea 5:15-6:3; Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23; Romans 11:15; Daniel 12:1-4,10; Isaiah 26:16-21; Rom9:26/Hos1:10 [re: Israel] (as distinct from Rom9:25/Hos2:23b re: the Gentiles); etc--ALL these about Israel's "FUTURE" ]
"25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them [Israel], when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they [Israel] are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [/irrevocable]."
[Hosea 5:15-6:3; Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23; Romans 11:15; Daniel 12:1-4,10; Isaiah 26:16-21; Rom9:26/Hos1:10 [re: Israel] (as distinct from Rom9:25/Hos2:23b re: the Gentiles); etc--ALL these about Israel's "FUTURE" ]
Jesus said, in John 16:12-15 -
"12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you."
[see 1Cor2:9-10,16b -- as recorded in Scripture after His resurrection/ascension/exaltation, v.10 "But God HATH REVEALED them unto us by [means of] His Spirit..."]
"12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you."
[see 1Cor2:9-10,16b -- as recorded in Scripture after His resurrection/ascension/exaltation, v.10 "But God HATH REVEALED them unto us by [means of] His Spirit..."]
No where there does Paul say that its just his own opinion.
If that is the case, throw them books out the bible and fast, useless books.
1Cor 14:37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command.
So what he said to the corinthians there wasnt just his opinion. The same book of Corinthians that you mentioned, which i quoted here.
Was the poster perhaps referring to 1 Corinthians 7,
where verse 12 states [when in contrast with the other parts in the passage, see context],
"12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+7&version=KJV
example :
6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But […]
P
pottersclay
Guest
The book of Romans is Paul's gospel.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith.
It is a dangerous thing to name another gospel, "that gospel of Paul" you have mentioned. Ask Paul who says there is but one gospel, that of Jesus Christ. If any come preaching another gospel, for there is no other, let him be accursed...........I will not abide vy any gospel named for other than Jesus, Yeshua. I do not want you thinking or believing such either
I see now that you belong to Paul. I belong to Jesus, Yeshua, and He does not teach such things, petty and diverting laws. As you see here it is also divisive,.
Well, there ya go!
I had read where he studied at the feet of Gamaliel for 3 years. Which apparently must have been in Arabia. I was just a mite confused. Because it sounded like Paul was "just a truckin" through the desert for 3 years being instructed by the Lord. Like Moses was with the children of Israel! Or like Christ was, when He went out in the desert to be tempted! Only of shorter duration.
Didn't mean to sound like I was, or am "splitting hairs." It's your story, bro!
No problem, not trying to save the world here ha.
Yes, Paul did study under Gamaliel and was very educated man. He knew nothing but Judaism, he knew nothing about Jesus earthly ministry other than what he was told. By his epistles you can see the skills Paul had learned, he had oratory knowledge and was well spoken. But with all this paul would go on to say "I count it all dung," for the knowledge of Christ.
To the Corinthians he said "I'm not here with enticing words."
Paul's road to Damascus experience converted him, but Paul's Revelation of the Christ in him changed him, it revolutionized everything about the man. A strange dilemma when you think about it, a man that was persecuting believers would now be called to bring in and carry God's message of grace.
Paul's work was cut out for him, all those he was affiliated with hated him ( Pharisees and Sadducees), and he had a desire for Israel. Those he persecuted were still afraid of him, and now he had a message that no man had ever heard before. God was birthing His own children by Christ in them, Romans 16:25
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
What a magnanimous human being this man was. He endured till the end to bring about the greatest message mankind can ever know.
In no way discrediting the other Apostles and writers of scripture. Without them nothing works, Peter gives us "partaking of the divine nature," and born again by the incorruptible seed. John gives great understanding in all his writing. The things James the half brother of Jesus gives us are invaluable. We know the bible is the inspired word of God and it comes under attack from within and without, but it shall stand the test of time.
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
I "applaud" your observation Jaumel! As I also "see", as well as consider many (ahem) Churches of stone to rename their various denominations to "Church of the Paulene Epistles!"
And? It's NOT that I disdain Paul, or his teachings! NOR do I, or am I trying to refute Paul, or his teachings!
I am however, referring to just how stupid and gullible, many people are! And, how God has deluded them into "seeing" Paul's words and teachings. Yet, blinding them to the words and teachings, ie "parables", of Christ! Collectively considering themselves "compliant" in the successful execution of the Great Commission!
Luke 12
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.
To the point of:
Matthew 7
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Solution: ASK, for more!
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Not certain which "tradition of man" doctrine/s, you are holding so dear. It is just "something" I see, but, tis "above my pay grade", in the "aiding" of a resolution, for you.
Ask the Father to "fill the void", traditions of men create, with His Word! Yet, I am hesitant, you would, as you would only consider that, as just being some "lying" and "wonder", from the devil!
I have! He DOES!
The Jew/Gentile setting in the days of Paul until now is inescapable.
There is one Christ and one way to heaven. Through Christ.
That gospel is presented differently to each group.
Not two gospels and yet seemingly 2 gospels.
To the Jew messiah has come
To the gentile ,who never heard of messiah,he is persuaded that he has a savior who died for him. Innocent blood. A man took his place.
Tell a gentile of the passover sacrifice and it takes 15 minutes just to do a teaching on a concept he knows zero about.
It is two separate messages to two separate groups.
There is one Christ and one way to heaven. Through Christ.
That gospel is presented differently to each group.
Not two gospels and yet seemingly 2 gospels.
To the Jew messiah has come
To the gentile ,who never heard of messiah,he is persuaded that he has a savior who died for him. Innocent blood. A man took his place.
Tell a gentile of the passover sacrifice and it takes 15 minutes just to do a teaching on a concept he knows zero about.
It is two separate messages to two separate groups.
Jesus came as a God man. He died as a sacrificial lamb.
We was declared King of the Jews.
But saved the world. All men no matter their birthright.
"Whosoever" doesn't magically dispose of either group.
Romans actually teaches that.
We was declared King of the Jews.
But saved the world. All men no matter their birthright.
"Whosoever" doesn't magically dispose of either group.
Romans actually teaches that.
Paul's direction to teh churches is "petty and diverting laws". Allrighty then.
How is one to tell the difference when its Paul speaking or when its a commandment?
I think Paul always says that specifically to let people know that this is just me, not the Lord. But if nothing is said, i think we should take it as a command
Galatians 1:11 - But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
In Ephesians 3:1-9, Paul clearly states: 1 - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
In Ephesians 3:1-9, Paul clearly states: 1 - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The question would seem to be ......what are we to do with I Corinthians 7:10 it reads;"To the married I charge, not I but the Lord," and then in verse 12, "To the rest I say, not the Lord, that if brother has a wife," and so on?
Does this mean that there are two levels of authority in the Bible? If it's backed up by the Lord does it more authority than if Paul has just said it?
First of all, we must remember that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for reproof, for doctrine, for training in righteousness, etc. Secondly, the Bible says that holy men spoke as the Holy Spirit moved them. And so every part of the Bible has equal authority.
In that way it must be read in the context of the rest of the Bible in order to discover what is really being said. The whole Bible is the divine Word of God. Now in this particular passage Paul is making reference to the fact, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (remember, it is God speaking) that the Lord Jesus Christ had much to say about marriage. A person can read about this in Matthew 5, in Matthew 19, etc. And so he is saying in verse 10: "To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord." Therefore saying the Lord Jesus has already spoken about this. that would be a clue to us to search the Gospels to see what He talked to the disciples about. And then in verse 12 he says, "To the rest I say, not the Lord," and now Paul under the inspiration is going to discuss an aspect of the marriage relationship that had not been expressed by the Lord Jesus when He was talking to His disciples. But what Paul is going to say is equally authoritative because it is also under the inspiration of God Himself.
Does this mean that there are two levels of authority in the Bible? If it's backed up by the Lord does it more authority than if Paul has just said it?
First of all, we must remember that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for reproof, for doctrine, for training in righteousness, etc. Secondly, the Bible says that holy men spoke as the Holy Spirit moved them. And so every part of the Bible has equal authority.
In that way it must be read in the context of the rest of the Bible in order to discover what is really being said. The whole Bible is the divine Word of God. Now in this particular passage Paul is making reference to the fact, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (remember, it is God speaking) that the Lord Jesus Christ had much to say about marriage. A person can read about this in Matthew 5, in Matthew 19, etc. And so he is saying in verse 10: "To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord." Therefore saying the Lord Jesus has already spoken about this. that would be a clue to us to search the Gospels to see what He talked to the disciples about. And then in verse 12 he says, "To the rest I say, not the Lord," and now Paul under the inspiration is going to discuss an aspect of the marriage relationship that had not been expressed by the Lord Jesus when He was talking to His disciples. But what Paul is going to say is equally authoritative because it is also under the inspiration of God Himself.