Perspective On The Law/Grace

[Epiales]

That is why I HATE and DISPISE legalism

Same! Legalism = self-righteousness!

 

[Grandpa]

There are TEN Commandments... You pick and choose 9 and not all 10? "If the shoe fits!"



So the Ten Commandments are cherry picked?



Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Are you a liar?
Are you a thief?
Do you have idols in your home? And worship them?
Are you a murderer?
Are you a Polytheist?
Do you renounce the Sabbath day God made for you so as not to keep it holy?
Do you dishonor your mother and father?
Do you take the Lord's name in vein?
Do you covet?"I love my neighbors new truck. I want it!"

Not all has been fulfilled! Heaven and Earth have not passed away.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

To establish is to "abide" and "continue" Not destroy!

Tell me the 10 Commandments are no longer valid in our lives? Better yet, tell God that.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15​

2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21​

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12​

4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Hebrews 4:9-10​

For he that has entered into his rest; the Gospel has ceased from his own works as GOD did from HIS. As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD rested from physical labor on day seven which is the Sabbath. So we who have entered into the Gospel also rest from our physical labor on day seven which is the Sabbath.​

5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2​

6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15​

7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10​

8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28​

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10​

10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3​

​

Without these laws, there would be no knowledge of sin; so I guess, in your terms, we are sinlesly perfected now because these are obsolete and Christ abolished them?

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This shows that if there were no laws, there would be no need for God's Grace; thus no reason for a mediator.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also (In other words in addition to that) hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The only record we have of GOD ceasing from HIS own work is upon completing Creation. God ceased from work on the day, the seventh which HE later called the Sabbath. So we who have entered into Christ's Rest; the Gospel, also in addition to that cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS on the Seventh Day, which is the Sabbath.

Can you say that the commentary Jesus gave on the commandments cancelled that law as Moses gave it? In that case we would be told that Jesus was not true to the Father, Jesus is a new God who cancelled what the Father said. So. Jesus said you could lie, steal and murder for as Jesus explained the spirit of the law Jesus was cancelling? Tell me how that works?

If the laws of God were of no importance whatsoever, Jesus would have taught this and made it VERY clear, rather than saying what He did about not one jot nor tittle would pass from the laws until all was accomplished.

The Sabbath was in effect way before Moses received any laws.

The word translated rested in Genesis 2:3 is “shabbat” in Hebrew and means Sabbath. So the first occurrence in the English translations may be Exodus 16 but in the original Hebrew text it is actually Genesis 2:3.

With all I've pointed out and shared, I do not follow a Sabbath day, as I have the liberty NOT to follow a Sabbath or not IMO. But in regards to them that do, it is none of our business to tell someone they cannot follow it or to condemn them for doing so. Technically, and in all reality, there are 10 Commandments; not 9, and we all want to say we continue to follow them, but we exclude the Sabbath. Sure, tell me I pick and choose, but eat your own words; YOU pick and choose which of the 10 YOU want to follow.

I am done responding to you, as I have made the points that I wished to make, and have presented scripture well enough to end this back and forth between you and I. I will say this in closing. Nowhere have I mentioned that one MUST keep a Sabbath, and no where have I tried to force it upon anyone. We each have our relationship and walk with God the Almighty, and it's not my place to tell you how to have that relationship. You won't be standing before the Throne on my behalf, and I won't on yours. We are all held accountable for we do or what do don't do. But I will say this as well, in closing...

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Although I don't force or tell others that they MUST do this or do that, I would never be vehemently teach AGAINST it and TEACH someone that they should NOT obey.

Thanks for participating in the conversation. Feel free to respond and have the last word, as my reply to you no longer warrants a response.

Lecheem Ha Elohim... Shalom!!!

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You can pick any of the commandments you want. And once you do you get the WHOLE law to work at.

Working at laws is NOT Christianity. That's Judaism. That's what Paul speaks against in most of the New Testament.

But carnal minds only understand carnal concepts so there will be major misunderstandings between legalists, judaizers and Christians.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Do you know what being justified means?

Romans 3:21-22
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Do you know what the righteousness of God is?

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Its funny how legalists and judaizers cling to this one verse. They love it. But they try to make it say things that it DOES NOT say.

It doesn't mean that faith works at the law. It means that faith doesn't break the law. It shows the workers of the law what the law REALLY looks like.

Its the difference between worshipping the shadow and worshipping the Real. Following the shadow and following the Real.

I know you're not going to get it. You would have already understood.

 

[Grandpa]

Same! Legalism = self-righteousness!

Legalism = working at the law

 

[garee]

Yes, there will be many that come in this thread and say that the law made nothing perfect, or the law only pointed to sin, or that the law was a foreshadowing of grace, but why would we rebuke a child of the King for following the Sabbath, or wanting to keep any other law at that? I'm not here to discuss every law in the Word of God, but to mainly focus on the Sabbath day. Put whatever law you want and think on it in this same manner if you wish, but the Sabbath haters really grieve my spirit, and I believe that it grieves God too.

I would offer there are two kinds of laws. The written law as that which we see the scriptures( it kills) and the law of faith that bring faith to those who have none. It the latter comes when a person mixes faith the unseen in what they do hear coming from the word of God. Having nothing to do with the ceremony. The ceremonial laws as shadows preach the suffering of Christ beforehand the gospel .

Out of all the commandments the one involving the Sabbath as a law used to govern ceremonies and not moral out in the world as the ceremonial limit. We are given two different reasonings as understanding by two different parables Exodus 20:11 and Deuteronomy 5:15 Both pointing to the same rest as a sabbath according to Hebrew 4. The rest we have when we do not harden our hearts mixing faith in what we do hear any time we do hear called today in Hebrews 4 ,

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Exodus 20:11

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. Deuteronomy 5:15

Outside of cerimonial las as shadows the other commandments to not give two different parables to represent the same thing. . He offers no parable as a reason for, "thou shall not murder" a moral law .

Keeping the Sabbath would be if we do "mix faith" the unseen eternal in what we do hear and not harden ones heart in unbelief (no faith).

 

[JaumeJ]

Those who are saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God, having received the Holy Spirit will obey what laws remain by their new nature for they are new. They are not under the law, but they do dobey it, even if they do not yet know it.

We are only saved by Jesus Christ, Yeshua's sacrifice fo our salvation.

I as making unleavened bred whe I realized that i believe Jesus our Bread is Jesus, and it is unleavend. I realized that being one of the living stones of the Temple our house never has leaven in it therefore, without realizing it we are always keeping the Passover……...although most are not aware of it.

Yes, we keep the law, but we are not bound by it, nor are we under the law for we are free of its curse, death.

I am sorry people thing this is mixing two covenants, it is not, it is explaing how they are fulfilled for a pAUL HAS WRITTEN IN rOMANS i BELIEVE, faithestablishes the law. Tell me me our hearts are not inscribed with the law as it is unter the mercy and grace of God, and I will find the teller lacking in certain understanding.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Moreover, if we miss some of the trash on the floor, we get to keep our job.

I read your post and my mind vibrated the thought of we still sin yet our soul Is saved.

 

[Epiales]

I don't know how much clearer I can get in this thread.

May God forgive everyone for their ignorance.

Not one person has stated that keeping ANY of the law saved anyone. You don't kill anyone because it's the law written on your heart... you don't bow to idols because it's the law written on your hearts. Basically ALL 10 commandments should be written in your hearts.

Not for SALVATION AGAIN! Do some of you guys read? Again, may the Lord forgive the ignorance and hatred of His people. I bet most of you think the Jews are trash and worthless and that God has no plans for them either. Which is another topic. I"m done here! I put it out for others to read and comment... Now it's time to just shut up and let the readers glean from it what they will. I refuse to keep going back and forth over this. May the readers be blessed, and in both positions/sides, may the Lord open our eyes to see His truth.

 

[prove-all]

Ok. So you CAN pick and choose your favorite OT laws with NO repercussions whatsoever.

Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from
the law, till all be fulfilled.

Now if you read that verse it says "or the prophets"

There is no way Christ fulfilled all of the O.T. Prophets Prophecy about Jesus.
If you think so, I suggest to go back and read it again. All is Not fulfilled yet.

 

[prove-all]

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:
for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which
are written in the book of the law to do them.

The curse of the law

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good
in Romans 7:12 “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”

So what was the curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown here in
Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.
And all the people shall say, Amen.”

The first part of this curse has to do with sin as it is written in Romans 7:10-11 “And the com.,
which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.11 For sin, taking occasion by the com. ,
deceived me, and by it slew me.” Again we see the law was ordained unto life, but the curse came
when man could not keep the law because of the weakness of his flesh and sin. So who’s the bad
guy here, the law, or sin? If you answered sin then you would be correct.

Now for the second part of the curse, which is swearing to the oath. It is written Galatians 3:10
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every
one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

After Moses had read the law, all the blessings and the curses, the people then bound themselves
to the oath by agreeing to keep everything that was written in the law. The word oath in Hebrew
can also be defined and shown as the word curse in scripture.

And swearing to an oath can also be shown as binding ones soul to a curse as in Neh 10:29
“They clave to their brethren, their nobles, entered into a curse,and into an oath, to walk in
God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the com-
mandents of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;”

“Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice;
therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant
of God, because we have sinned against him.” Daniel 9:11

And here is where the curse came in by swearing themselves to the oath in Numbers 30:2
“If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall
not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”


And so being unable to perform the vow to God to keep the whole law, because of the
weakness of the flesh and of sin, then the curses mentioned in the law were put into effect.

Jesus said in Matthew 5:33-37

“Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself,
but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven;
for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city
of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white
or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these
cometh of evil.”

And here again also in James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not,
neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your
yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”


And a word to the wise, if you ever have to go to court and are asked to forswear
yourself to an oath, or any other vow or oath for that matter…don’t do it! Peace.

 

[JaumeJ]

When we have been truly saved by the Blood of Yeshua, Jesus, we are a new person. We, whether concious of it or nto, obey the law by this new nature. As for it being etched in stone, it is no longer so, rather on our hearts.

Anyone who says he knows Messiah, yet lives in sin does not know him. All who are saved by His Blood know they are not yet perfect but live as do those who believe thir Maker, and are being perfected within by Him. We may sin but we do not live in it nor for it.

Jesus teaches all how teh law stands since HIs great an perfect self sacrifice for us alll.

Again, no man is saved by obeying the law, but all certainly may lose their status by deliberatly living in sin....the difference is understood in the spirit. Do not try to make it some kind of ritualistic understanding carved in stone, again...

All blessings in the mercy and grace affordee by our Lord, Jesus, amen.

 

[prove-all]

Its the difference between worshipping the shadow and worshipping the Real.
Following the shadow and following the Real.

Are you saying Paul was cursed for keeping the Sabbath day?,
recorded keeping like 84 times in the new testament.

By the way Gods Sabbaths, referred to as "things to come" there well after Christ
returned to heaven. The next Sabbath convocation to come is The feast of
trumpets, this pictures Christs return to earth, in All His splendid Glory.

At the Last trump, unfulfilled and still to come,
when he will give us our promised rest.

 

[Grandpa]

Now if you read that verse it says "or the prophets"

There is no way Christ fulfilled all of the O.T. Prophets Prophecy about Jesus.
If you think so, I suggest to go back and read it again. All is Not fulfilled yet.

All is fulfilled.

Otherwise Jesus failed and we are all still under Judaism with its sacrifices.

He said Not One Jot or One Tittle.

If one jot or one tittle has passed then what does that mean? All is fulfilled.

 

[Grandpa]

Are you saying Paul was cursed for keeping the Sabbath day?,
recorded keeping like 84 times in the new testament.

By the way Gods Sabbaths, referred to as "things to come" there well after Christ
returned to heaven. The next Sabbath convocation to come is The feast of
trumpets, this pictures Christs return to earth, in All His splendid Glory.

At the Last trump, unfulfilled and still to come,
when he will give us our promised rest.

Can you show in the bible that Paul said he "kept" the sabbath or that he encouraged others to "keep" a sabbath?

Can you show in the bible where it says Gods Sabbaths are a thing to come after Christ returned to heaven?

Can you show in the bible where it says that the Feast of Trumpets is NOT fulfilled by Christ and His Atonement??