Please forgive ignorance

Docofmercy · May 3, 2019

To whom it may concern,

I am confused about the theological teachings of Christ. Jesus said if someone wants something from us along the lines of... "to give them our cloak and sandals". To my understanding he is also quoted in red letters "turn the other cheek". Okay my issue is that Christ came from a line some pretty shady people even tho he was sinless and showed us how to love perfectly through his sacrifice.

We think Abraham lied to pharaoh about his sister not being his wife. Then we have Jacob deceiving his father to steal his brother Esau's birth right. This is not to assume Esau was blameless but it does not claim he was wicked. I am certain that Christ died on the cross and shed his blood to forgive our sin but how does he elect the chosen?

Not sure how to articulate the way God's chosen people aka the Jews taking over the holy Land of Israel and the way he punished anyone who stood against them who deccended from jacob but not sure how that lines up with turning the other cheek. We also have all war and death.

Let me be clear I am a sinner by nature and a practiced veteran at falling short of Grace of God. The Bible is clearly inspired by the holy Spirit used for salvation but I am struggling within myself.

Pardon my random nonsense and inability to articulate a concise theological argument but I have been going through a tremendous amount of stress and various life issues.

My bad if these insignificant questions don't make sense to anyone but someone can relate to what it is I am asking please can help me grow in faith.

Thanks,

Friend of God

dcontroversal · May 3, 2019

Everything you question was rectified and or had reason.....

a. Sarah was Abraham's half sister....so....technically he did not lie

b. Jacob was a trickster, but was converted with his name changed to Israel and do not forget he reaped what he had sown when he served 7 years for Rachael and was tricked on his wedding night into marrying Leah and had to serve ANOTHER 7 years for Rachael

c. Christ came from the lineage of FAITH and had some very honorable men and women in it

d. Joshua and the Hebrews took the land from 7 idolatrous nations that burnt their babies live, practiced human sacrifice, had female prostitutes and male sodomites as priests and priestesses while worshiping false gods.....

SO...what is the issue.....??

Waggles · May 3, 2019

It is exactly for people like you and me that Jesus came into the world to bring us the good news of grace and salvation.
The world, the nations and all the chaos and war and strife are of Satan and his minions who rule the planet.
But Jesus is calling people out of the world to deny the wickedness of the world and to embrace his righteousness by the
power of the indwelling of Holy Spirit.
Seek your salvation unto eternal life in Jesus and the gospel - for you cannot even save yourself let alone the world.

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are
zealous for good works.
Titus 2:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins,
and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
Acts 2:

Docofmercy · May 3, 2019

dcontroversal said:

A. Yes You are correct if we look I clearly stated that Sarah was Abraham's sister in my post. I was unaware that although the word of God is perfect it is technical as well.

B. You are also correct that Israel did serve time and we could pontificate that a form of discipline but that does not explain what made the former Jacob holy but I forgot about his conversion. Isaac his father was a promise from God conceived in the marriage covenant so that makes sense.

C. Yes you are right again with Christ blood line.

D. Well it looks like you might be referring to the religion of Catholicism but I am a bigot so I will stop before I make myself look even more foolish with my word vomit tonight.

Personally my issue was with the way Jacob seems to be rewarded in spite of his actions but we could look at the entire davidic blood starting with the adultery that lead to the murder of husband. I am not following your "faith" statement because most religious set of theological teachings require some form of hope or beliefs but how does our Father in heaven discern what is holy or elect?

RickyZ · May 3, 2019

Docofmercy said:

To whom it may concern,

I am confused about the theological teachings of Christ. Jesus said if someone wants something from us along the lines of... "to give them our cloak and sandals". To my understanding he is also quoted in red letters "turn the other cheek". Okay my issue is that Christ came from a line some pretty shady people even tho he was sinless and showed us how to love perfectly through his sacrifice.

We think Abraham lied to pharaoh about his sister not being his wife. Then we have Jacob deceiving his father to steal his brother Esau's birth right. This is not to assume Esau was blameless but it does not claim he was wicked. I am certain that Christ died on the cross and shed his blood to forgive our sin but how does he elect the chosen?

Not sure how to articulate the way God's chosen people aka the Jews taking over the holy Land of Israel and the way he punished anyone who stood against them who deccended from jacob but not sure how that lines up with turning the other cheek. We also have all war and death.

Let me be clear I am a sinner by nature and a practiced veteran at falling short of Grace of God. The Bible is clearly inspired by the holy Spirit used for salvation but I am struggling within myself.

Pardon my random nonsense and inability to articulate a concise theological argument but I have been going through a tremendous amount of stress and various life issues.

My bad if these insignificant questions don't make sense to anyone but someone can relate to what it is I am asking please can help me grow in faith.

Thanks,

Friend of God

Jesus says mankind should live like Him ... but mankind instead cheats and deceives to get ahead ... No, what mankind does normally does not line up with turn the other cheek. That's how it (doesn't) works. If Jesus tells us to do one thing, it's a pretty safe bet we're going to go do something else. That's the human equation, the under-the-powers-and-principalities-of-this-world deviation you have to factor into it.

RickyZ · May 3, 2019

Docofmercy said:

Works do not determine salvation - belief does. Even thru David's and Jacob's et al's actions, they still believed God.

Thus, even tho they did not 'turn the other cheek' (do what God said), God did not abandon them because they still believed.

Adstar · May 4, 2019

Docofmercy said:

God is God , Perfect..

People are people.. faulty..

God chose to reveal His will through faulty people..

Those faulty people under the guidance of God produced the Holy Scriptures we call the Bible..

While those people where doing that over the many generations it took to reveal all of Gods will ( estimates around 4000 years maybe) those people got up to a lot of bad behavior..

The Bible records what happened during this time wort's and all.. Just because the Bible records the sins of Jews ( and others) does not mean that God approved of those actions..

So while God was good all the way through the process.. The Jews He was working through where mostly bad...

So let me get to your examples..

God used the Jews for things other then revealing His will.. God used the Jews as an implement of His wrath upon evil peoples.. This is what happened when the Jews where liberated from Egypt and came and invaded the lands making up the area which was called Canaan.. The peoples of the area practiced evil including Child sacrifice burning their little ones as offerings to their pagan god Molech.. The Bible also reveals that God did have contact with the People in the area through prophets ( messengers ) There is an account in the OLD Testament of a Prophet in the region called Balaam who was called by his king to come and curse the Jews who where on the Border of the kings land.. But Balaam did not curse the Jews He blessed the Jews and prophecised positive things would happen to the Jews..

Jesus was not the son of Joseph and did not inherit the faulty nature of the Jewish people ( all people are faulty ) Jesus by His Atoning death on the cross started a new age of grace where a New covenant was established between God and believers based on forgiveness through belief in the Atonement Jesus secured for us on the cross.. With this change came a change in how followers of the New covenant would work in the world..

This is where the loving your neighbor and turning the cheek and giving your jacket and not carrying out judgements started.. Now just like the Old covenant times when the Jews often failed to follow the will of God because they where faulty, we now have people who fail to live up to the New covenant will of God because they are likewise faulty... This is why the key to salvation is based on Believing the teachings of Jesus and Trusting that the Atonement of Jesus pays for all the times we fail to do the will of God as revealed by Jesus..

Christians should believe all the words of Jesus even if they fail every day to live up to those beautiful standards.. Christians should not make excuses or try to water down the message of Jesus because they cannot live up to it.. Christians should knowledge the will of God as true and good and thank God for the Atonement He provided for the forgiveness of our transgressions against His will..

We should have Zero resistance to His revealed Will and 100% confidence in the Atonement He secured for us.. This is the Way to salvation..

JaumeJ · May 4, 2019

Docofmercy said:

To whom it may concern,

I am confused about the theological teachings of Christ. Jesus said if someone wants something from us along the lines of... "to give them our cloak and sandals". To my understanding he is also quoted in red letters "turn the other cheek". Okay my issue is that Christ came from a line some pretty shady people even tho he was sinless and showed us how to love perfectly through his sacrifice.

We think Abraham lied to pharaoh about his sister not being his wife. Then we have Jacob deceiving his father to steal his brother Esau's birth right. This is not to assume Esau was blameless but it does not claim he was wicked. I am certain that Christ died on the cross and shed his blood to forgive our sin but how does he elect the chosen?

Not sure how to articulate the way God's chosen people aka the Jews taking over the holy Land of Israel and the way he punished anyone who stood against them who deccended from jacob but not sure how that lines up with turning the other cheek. We also have all war and death.

Let me be clear I am a sinner by nature and a practiced veteran at falling short of Grace of God. The Bible is clearly inspired by the holy Spirit used for salvation but I am struggling within myself.

Pardon my random nonsense and inability to articulate a concise theological argument but I have been going through a tremendous amount of stress and various life issues.

My bad if these insignificant questions don't make sense to anyone but someone can relate to what it is I am asking please can help me grow in faith.

Thanks,

Friend of God

If you believe Jesus, you know He has no theology. He is all Truth.

Melach · May 4, 2019

remember the ot saints were not said to turn the other cheek. it was a different system, to bring the promised messiah through that line there.

different covenant alltogether.

Melach · May 4, 2019

JaumeJ said:

very ignorant spiritual sounding statement friend. hope you think again saying Jesus has no theology

like saying "i hate religion but love Jesus"

good meme. Jesus had theology and thats all He taught.... theology = study of God. Jesus was God among us, not much more good theology you can get than that. all His teachings are theology.

JaumeJ · May 4, 2019

Melach said:

Why would you think of another as ignorant simply because he or she believes Jesus, Yeshua is the source of all that is?

Either those who believe Him do, or they simply do not believe.

garee · May 4, 2019

Docofmercy said:

Not sure if it would be helpful. His ways are beyond our understanding as the peace of God that does give us His understanding. But the accuser of the brethren is relentless. Day and night 365 days a year.

While on one hand we are warned .

Isaiah 5:20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

And another hand.. God who is not evil creates a evil by lifting his hand of mercy. Its an evil to bring a nation against another . Its a evil if one is disfellowshipped for discipline . Corruption was a evil God created when mankind fell. Notice he "forms" that which is good. And out of that form he can create a evil to include confusion in between . Satan is the author of confusion.

God does not call evil good . He creates a evil and forms that which is good .Light

Isaiah 45:6-8 King James Version That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it

I am reminded also of a verse as a balance (the B word) as a principle in Ecclesiastics. Using money as a shelter as well as wisdom . Wisdom having a advantage over the thing seen the temporal . therefore a man can discover nothing about his future his love hems us in that we might try and live one day moment by moment. No name it claim it fame, creating a evil. When time are good don't hold back. Grin and you're in. When times are evil know God has formed the one and created the other

So my advice? Do not act overly righteous, and do not think yourself wiser than others. Why go and ruin yourself? But do not be too wicked or foolish either. Why die before it’s your time? Grasp both sides of things and keep the two in balance; for anyone who fears God won’t give in to the extremes. Ecclesiastic 7:16-19
.

MattforJesus · May 4, 2019

Docofmercy said:

All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, and there is none that does good, no, not one.

Also they could not have the Spirit in the Old Testament like in the New Testament, and some people sin after they have received the Spirit, but they ask for forgiveness, and move on.

After Peter received the Spirit, Paul got in his face and said he was not walking uprightly according to the Gospel of truth, but Peter made that wrong choice, and God is not to be blamed, and Peter repented of it, and moved on.

We are in the flesh, and have a choice between good and evil, and we are tempted, so we have the capability to sin if want.

And Paul said there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh, and the flesh and Spirit are contrary to each other.

God wants us to do good, but if a person sins that claims to follow God, that is not on God, and not His fault, for they made that choice on their own.

Some people say hypocritical christian, but there is no such thing as a hypocritical christian, for a person cannot be a hypocrite, and a Christian at the same time.

And hypocrites do not change the truth, nor void it out, for the truth is the same no matter how people act, and Jesus said the hypocrites do not belong to Him, so their wrong actions cannot reflect badly on Christianity.

We are in the flesh, so we can sin if we want to sin, but that is not on God, and does not reflect badly on Him, or the Church, and God said He cannot be tempted with evil, and does not tempt any person, but every person is tempted when they are led away with their own lusts.

The saints in the Old Testament might of sinned, but they are forgiven, and was right with God before they perished from off the earth, and without the Spirit in the Old Testament they had a harder time beating temptation than in the New Testament, for those with the Spirit God will not allow to be tempted above what they are able to handle, and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can endure it.

And we know many people that claim Christ today are hypocrites, as they are enjoying sin, but God does not twist their arm to live for Him, so it is a choice they made, and does not reflect badly on the truth.

And we know that we have a choice after we are saved, for if we did not have a choice, no person would ever sin again after receiving the truth, and claiming it.

Abraham, David, Jacob, or any other person that sinned claiming God in the Old Testament has nothing to do with the truth, and that the Bible is false because they sinned claiming God, but they are in the flesh, and made the choice to sin, but that is not on God, for we still have a choice after we are claiming God.

Also God gave the Jews the land of Canaan because they were heathen, not caring about the true will of God, and it was allowed in the Old Testament for the Jews to war to put down people, and mainly to protect their nation, which God would fight for them to protect their nation, for they had to survive, and stay in the truth, for Jesus was coming through the nation of Israel to give salvation to the world.

The truth is Israel is the only nation that is permitted to fight for their land to protect it, even in the New Testament, until they come to the truth of Jesus as a nation in the future, when the peace treaty in the Middle East paves the way for all Jews to go to Israel, for the Gentile nations will cause it to happen, and God turns the nation of Israel to the truth when they are all back on their land.

The Bible said like birds flying God will protect Israel, and passing over it He will preserve it, which Israeli fighter pilots paved the way to win the 6 day war, and they took control of Jerusalem, for Israel can fight for their land, and it is permitted.

Also Israel only protected their land, and I have not heard of Jews going forth to conquer other lands, and take control of their land as their own.

We hear of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, the Roman Empire, kingdoms that wanted to conquer other lands, and possess their land, and control of the people.

But I have never heard of the Jews doing this, even when they were prospering as a kingdom in the Old Testament, with the exception of the land of Canaan that God gave to them.

Once Israel had their land given by God, I have not heard, or read, where the Jews went about conquering other nations, and occupying their land, and having control of them, for they knew that is not what God wanted, and if they did do it God would not be on their side.

Lanolin · May 4, 2019

Docofmercy said:

If you are struggling its actually a sign you are growing.
Jacob wrestled with God all night but he didnt let him go until he got blessed. GOd won of course and Jacob had a dislocated hip to show for it, but the point is he engaged with God.

Yes God loves us while we were yet sinners. Yes were were all of us shady before we came to the light.
God chose the israelites not because they were any good or good looking but simply because He loved them. And we can see if we read the Bible how he continued to love them even when they were disobedient and tried his patience many times. This is why Jesus came. To redeem us. He went to the jews first. Actually Jesus was a jew himself. So he could relate to them, but when many rejected him, he then turned to the gentiles but this was all part of Gods plan anyway for all mankind.

Docofmercy · May 4, 2019

RickyZ said:

You have a legitimate argument of our broken human nature. It is also right on point about the principles of morality.

Docofmercy · May 4, 2019

Adstar said:

God is God , Perfect..

People are people.. faulty..

God chose to reveal His will through faulty people..

Those faulty people under the guidance of God produced the Holy Scriptures we call the Bible..

While those people where doing that over the many generations it took to reveal all of Gods will ( estimates around 4000 years maybe) those people got up to a lot of bad behavior..

The Bible records what happened during this time wort's and all.. Just because the Bible records the sins of Jews ( and others) does not mean that God approved of those actions..

So while God was good all the way through the process.. The Jews He was working through where mostly bad...

So let me get to your examples..

God used the Jews for things other then revealing His will.. God used the Jews as an implement of His wrath upon evil peoples.. This is what happened when the Jews where liberated from Egypt and came and invaded the lands making up the area which was called Canaan.. The peoples of the area practiced evil including Child sacrifice burning their little ones as offerings to their pagan god Molech.. The Bible also reveals that God did have contact with the People in the area through prophets ( messengers ) There is an account in the OLD Testament of a Prophet in the region called Balaam who was called by his king to come and curse the Jews who where on the Border of the kings land.. But Balaam did not curse the Jews He blessed the Jews and prophecised positive things would happen to the Jews..

Jesus was not the son of Joseph and did not inherit the faulty nature of the Jewish people ( all people are faulty ) Jesus by His Atoning death on the cross started a new age of grace where a New covenant was established between God and believers based on forgiveness through belief in the Atonement Jesus secured for us on the cross.. With this change came a change in how followers of the New covenant would work in the world..

This is where the loving your neighbor and turning the cheek and giving your jacket and not carrying out judgements started.. Now just like the Old covenant times when the Jews often failed to follow the will of God because they where faulty, we now have people who fail to live up to the New covenant will of God because they are likewise faulty... This is why the key to salvation is based on Believing the teachings of Jesus and Trusting that the Atonement of Jesus pays for all the times we fail to do the will of God as revealed by Jesus..

Christians should believe all the words of Jesus even if they fail every day to live up to those beautiful standards.. Christians should not make excuses or try to water down the message of Jesus because they cannot live up to it.. Christians should knowledge the will of God as true and good and thank God for the Atonement He provided for the forgiveness of our transgressions against His will..

We should have Zero resistance to His revealed Will and 100% confidence in the Atonement He secured for us.. This is the Way to salvation..

Yeah I am in agreement that we are all sinners and it's not beneficial to single out the Jews for the severity of their disobedience but my question is how did God choose to make the Hebrews Holy...

Waggles · May 4, 2019

5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been
given to us.
6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—
8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:
God came into the world to redeem that which was lost to Satan, us human beings.
Now Jacob and David were sinners and offended, but like us today, they were capable of contrition and repentance.
It is in our relationship of serving the living God that we have hope in the salvation to come.
This is both OT and NT.

Waggles · May 4, 2019

Docofmercy said:

God has a plan that started out before he created planet Earth and us … mind boggling hey.
Adam is created and separated from other peoples who dwell upon the Earth and placed in a "garden" that corresponds to where
the nation of Israel is today.
By this time there has been war in the heavenly realms and fallen angels (aka Satan, the devil, the Adversary, demons) are banished
to our earthly realm and start with ruining everything made originally beautiful by God.
God has a plan to redeem both his creation and us human beings from the work of Satan who has not kept his job description.
Satan also knows this and works actively to thwart God's will for our eventual salvation.
The world in terms of peoples and nations now belong to Satan and Co. who are the rulers of this world and all false religions.
BUT God has a plan …
after the Tower of Babel event human beings who did know of the LORD and Creator were dispersed for their idolatry,

8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according
to the number of the sons of God.
9 But the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.
10 “He found him in a desert land, and in the howling waste of the wilderness; he encircled him, he cared for him, he kept him
as the apple of his eye.
Deuteronomy 32: (ESV)

Genesis 11 the Tower of Babel followed by Genesis 12 the calling of Abraham to inherit a new land of promise.
Although known as Canaan it also occupies the same area as the old Garden of Eden > Israel > Jerusalem Mount Zion/Moriah
> the Jews > Jesus Christ > the New Covenant > all peoples dispersed by God now can be gathered in > worldwide faith and Church
> Jerusalem > Armageddon > the Jews see him who they pierced > Israel (Ephraim and Judah) restored > New Jerusalem.

It began in the garden of Eden and it all ends in the garden of Eden.

Grandpa · May 4, 2019

Docofmercy said:

1 Corinthians 1:25-31
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Nehemiah6 · May 4, 2019

Docofmercy said:

Christ did not elect Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob for any merit in them, but solely because of His grace, and because they would believe God, and have faith in God. Since Christ died for all mankind, all could be forgiven if all would believe God and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Also, because God elected Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, He also elected the twelve tribes of Jacob/Israel to be a holy nation and to also inherit the Land of Promise. But since the majority of Jews rejected their Messiah, they have been blinded by God until the Church is completed. Then God and Christ will deal with them, and eventually a believing remnant will possess the land of Greater Israel (from the Nile to the Euphrates).

Please forgive ignorance

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