Please help me to understand

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bytheblood said:
Those revelations that Paul received were not known when, through the Jews, the church was born. A Jew, when the church was born, were those born of the twelve tribes. The first mention of a proselyte Jew is in Acts 6:5, Nicolas of Antioch. There is no other mention of proselytes earlier, so we can't assume there were, even from the surrounding regions. If you do that's just your opinion, not God's Word.
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According to God's Word, John the Baptist and Lord Jesus himself had affirmed that revelation long before Paul. Judaism before Christ was a religion, not a monolithic ethic group, anyone converted into Judaism was a Jew.

Do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. (Matt. 3:9)
For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother. (Matt. 12:50)
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. (Matt. 23:15)

Also, ever since the Exodus, there was a "mixed multitude" following the Israelites into the wilderness, Ex. 12:37-38, they accepted the Torah as well as the descendants of the twelve tribes; and since Rehoboam, Israel split into the Northern and the Southern kingdoms, the northerners were conquered by the Assyrians and scattered abroad, known as the Lost Ten Tribes, only the descendants of Judah and Benjamin in the south counted as Jews; by the time of Jesus, Jews who settled in the former northern kingdom and intermarried with other peoples were ostracized as Samaritans, they were no longer Jews as well. Therefore, "a Jew, when the church was born, were those born of the twelve tribes" is absolutely false.
 
Lovette said:
According to God's Word, John the Baptist and Lord Jesus himself had affirmed that revelation long before Paul. Judaism before Christ was a religion, not a monolithic ethic group, anyone converted into Judaism was a Jew.

Do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. (Matt. 3:9)
For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother. (Matt. 12:50)
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. (Matt. 23:15)

Also, ever since the Exodus, there was a "mixed multitude" following the Israelites into the wilderness, Ex. 12:37-38, they accepted the Torah as well as the descendants of the twelve tribes; and since Rehoboam, Israel split into the Northern and the Southern kingdoms, the northerners were conquered by the Assyrians and scattered abroad, known as the Lost Ten Tribes, only the descendants of Judah and Benjamin in the south counted as Jews; by the time of Jesus, Jews who settled in the former northern kingdom and intermarried with other peoples were ostracized as Samaritans, they were no longer Jews as well. Therefore, "a Jew, when the church was born, were those born of the twelve tribes" is absolutely false.
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When I mentioned " the first proselyte mentioned " I was referring to after the church was born. " And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a PROSELYTE of Antioch." Acts 6:5. There clearly was a distinction between one born of a Jewish mother and one converted to Judaism. Again, to ASSUME that there were proselyte Jews among the 120 in Acts 1&2 is stating something that the Bible doesn't. The" mixed multitude " following the Israelites into the wilderness were referred to as" aliens "and" strangers " not Jews. " And thou shalt say unto them, Whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel( Jews ), OR OF THE STRANGERS ( Gentiles ) which sojourn among you, that offereth a burnt offering or sacrifice." Leviticus 17:8. Distinction. No such distinction in Acts 1&2. It's " to the Jew FIRST " not the alien, stranger or proselyte.
 
bytheblood said:
Firstly, Paul NEVER mentioned babbling in relation to speaking in tongues, he spoke in tongues more than all who were in the Corinthian church. Babbling is your definition, not Paul's, because you don't believe. ".......: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Rev.19:10 The most important thing for a true Christian to do is testify (in word and deed) of Jesus. That's why Paul considered it more important. " In my experience, tongues.. ", YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE IN TONGUES! and that's why it is problematic to you, you don't believe. BTW, you couldn't forbid glossolalia,(speaking in tongues) if you wanted to, only to yourself, because you don't believe. ".... Faith worketh by love." Gal. 5:6. I have faith in what Jesus said in Mark 16:17 and I speak in tongues. You can never dissuade one with experience with a theory built on doubt in what Jesus says. Paul NEVER said " not all have any gift other than love ", no" faith, which works by love" (Gal. 5 :6), is the foundation for all the gifts of the Spirit, including speaking in tongues. " There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear..." 1 John 4:18, the "love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which (Who) is given unto us." Romans 5:5. God's love is perfect and it's in the hearts of those who believe, we must choose to operate by it. Have crazy things been done in tongues, love, prophecy, preaching, etc., etc., yes, because people are involved, remember Jesus knows where Satan's seat is in the church (Rev 2:13) but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. Spiritual discernment, rather than man's religious tradition, helps to differentiate between what is Godly and what is not. I once heard of an evangelist who was ministering in a foreign land ( I forget who). When he arrived he noticed there were some who had missing eyes and inquired why, was there a certain disease in that region. They answered no, but that the Bible, in Matthew 5:28-29, says that" if thy right eye offend thee pluck it out." They took it literally, having not been taught the spiritual implications of the scripture. I suspect that the same happens to those who purposely drink deadly things, not being properly taught. Speaking in tongues is not a requirement for salvation, you don't HAVE to, but you GET to. Everything Jesus says is mine, as a believer, I want.
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You - Paul NEVER mentioned babbling in relation to speaking in tongues.
Me - 1Cor. 14:6-9&23

You - Paul spoke in tongues more than all who were in the Corinthian church.
Me - 1Cor. 14:18-20

You - The most important thing for a true Christian to do is testify (in word and deed) of Jesus. That's why Paul considered it more important.
Me - 1Cor. 14:1-3&19

You - YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE IN TONGUES! and that's why it is problematic to you.
Me - 1Cor. 12:4-11

You - I have faith in what Jesus said in Mark 16:17 and I speak in tongues.
Me - 1Cor. 12:31b-13:13

You - Paul NEVER said " not all have any gift other than love ".
Me - 1Cor. 12:4-11, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6

You - Have crazy things been done in tongues, love, prophecy, preaching, etc., etc., yes, because people are involved.
Me - I agree.

You - Spiritual discernment, rather than man's religious tradition, helps to differentiate between what is Godly and what is not.
Me - Yes, and discernment necessitates learning GW per Eph. 4:11-15 & 2Tim. 3:16-17.

You - Speaking in tongues is not a requirement for salvation.
Me - Nor is it a sign of Spirit baptism (Eph. 4:5, 1Cor. 12:13) or filling (John 13:35, Gal. 5:6, Eph. 3:16-19).
 
GWH said:
You - Paul NEVER mentioned babbling in relation to speaking in tongues.
Me - 1Cor. 14:6-9&23

You - Paul spoke in tongues more than all who were in the Corinthian church.
Me - 1Cor. 14:18-20

You - The most important thing for a true Christian to do is testify (in word and deed) of Jesus. That's why Paul considered it more important.
Me - 1Cor. 14:1-3&19

You - YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE IN TONGUES! and that's why it is problematic to you.
Me - 1Cor. 12:4-11

You - I have faith in what Jesus said in Mark 16:17 and I speak in tongues.
Me - 1Cor. 12:31b-13:13

You - Paul NEVER said " not all have any gift other than love ".
Me - 1Cor. 12:4-11, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6

You - Have crazy things been done in tongues, love, prophecy, preaching, etc., etc., yes, because people are involved.
Me - I agree.

You - Spiritual discernment, rather than man's religious tradition, helps to differentiate between what is Godly and what is not.
Me - Yes, and discernment necessitates learning GW per Eph. 4:11-15 & 2Tim. 3:16-17.

You - Speaking in tongues is not a requirement for salvation.
Me - Nor is it a sign of Spirit baptism (Eph. 4:5, 1Cor. 12:13) or filling (John 13:35, Gal. 5:6, Eph. 3:16-19).
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You-1 Cor. 14:6-9,23 Me- If you would have kept reading (you did) you would find that Paul gave instructions on PROPERLY speaking in tongues IN THE CHURCH " If any man speak in an unknown tongue, LET IT BE by two, or at the most by three, and that by course (in turn); and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence(your preference) in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God" I Cor.14:27-28 You- 1 Cor.14:18-20 Me- He's referring to not having an interpreter. You- 1 Cor 14:1-3,19 Me- :" for the testimony of Jesus IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY" You- 1 Cor. 12:4-11 Me- That only reinforces that the Gift of Tongues is legitimate in the church, thanks. You- 1 Cor. 12:31b-13:13 Me- If one speaks, by the Holy Spirit, in an unknown tongue it is by faith and, again," faith which worketh by love." Gal. 5:6 You- 1 Cor.12:4-11, Rom 5:5, Gal5:6(see above, again) Me- Look, I have already stated that love is the foundation, that without it the gifts of the Spirit won't work, that's established. I won't go around this mountain with you for 40 years to try and get your religious men's traditional thinking enlightened. I have had this spiritual experience that Jesus said I would and you have a theory. You can't or don't want to understand and that's OK. As long as you are saved, that's what counts the most. Have a good night.
 
bytheblood said:
You-1 Cor. 14:6-9,23 Me- If you would have kept reading (you did) you would find that Paul gave instructions on PROPERLY speaking in tongues IN THE CHURCH " If any man speak in an unknown tongue, LET IT BE by two, or at the most by three, and that by course (in turn); and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence(your preference) in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God" I Cor.14:27-28 You- 1 Cor.14:18-20 Me- He's referring to not having an interpreter. You- 1 Cor 14:1-3,19 Me- :" for the testimony of Jesus IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY" You- 1 Cor. 12:4-11 Me- That only reinforces that the Gift of Tongues is legitimate in the church, thanks. You- 1 Cor. 12:31b-13:13 Me- If one speaks, by the Holy Spirit, in an unknown tongue it is by faith and, again," faith which worketh by love." Gal. 5:6 You- 1 Cor.12:4-11, Rom 5:5, Gal5:6(see above, again) Me- Look, I have already stated that love is the foundation, that without it the gifts of the Spirit won't work, that's established. I won't go around this mountain with you for 40 years to try and get your religious men's traditional thinking enlightened. I have had this spiritual experience that Jesus said I would and you have a theory. You can't or don't want to understand and that's OK. As long as you are saved, that's what counts the most. Have a good night.
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Good morning.
I am glad we agree regarding proper SIT.
My disagreement is with those who view SIT as a gift everyone should have because it manifests SB (Eph. 4:5, 1Cor. 12:13)
or filling (John 13:35, Gal. 5:6, Eph. 3:16-19).
I hope your saying "love is the foundation" means you agree with that view.
 
GWH said:
Good morning.
I am glad we agree regarding proper SIT.
My disagreement is with those who view SIT as a gift everyone should have because it manifests SB (Eph. 4:5, 1Cor. 12:13)
or filling (John 13:35, Gal. 5:6, Eph. 3:16-19).
I hope your saying "love is the foundation" means you agree with that view.
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Yes, I agree with what all that scripture says, including 1 Cor.13. Have a delightful day. P.S. I also agree that all believers SHOULD speak in tongues, because Jesus said so, but not as a requirement for salvation or of being filled with the Spirit.
 
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