Pre-Nuptial Agreements? (Do you disagree?) :)

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seoulsearch

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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Hey everyone,

What are your thoughts on pre-nups? Biblical? Evil? Just wondering what you think. I'm not even seeing anyone, let alone considering getting remarried at this time (but would like to if I met the right person), but when my husband left 10 years ago, he left me with everything (which can be good and bad, seeing as you have to pay for it all.) As I get older (and God has helped me so much but there are still a few old scars) and more established (paying bills, looking at someday owning a house if all goes well), I do have fears of someone coming into my life and then leaving again, this time taking everything I've struggled to achieve in a very unwanted state of aloneness (I never thought my husband and I would split--it all came as a terrible shock, so I have a tendency to think I have to "brace myself for the worst.")

I know we are supposed to have faith but I try to tell myself I have to be realistic, too. I begged God not to let my first marriage end and did I knew to do to try to save it but it did not work out that way.

What are your thoughts and experiences? My church would probably disown me for even mentioning the idea of a pre-nup, but I wondered what other Christians have thought and done.

Blessings,
Kim
 
You're right that Christians generally don't like pre-nups and I think with good reason. I mean it's basically saying what will happen if the marriage fails and when Christians enter a marriage it's supposed to be 'till death do us part, right? Well, we all know the reality is quite different. Christians (or perhaps former Christians) commit adultery. Other times Christians just can't keep it together for reasons I don't yet understand. In my family we've never had a pre-nup but we do have something that's kind of like it. See, my parents inherited a really valuable piece of property and one day my sister and I will inherit it. We have a rule that it can't go to anyone who marries into the family, so before my sister got married she had to re-do her will so that if she were to die before my brother-in-law he'd get everything of her's except for her part of the inheritence which would go to me so I'd never have to worry about buying him out.
 
I think what your family decided was pretty smart. I can relate--I have similar situations with my own family. The other reason I bring it up is because in the last relationship I had, the guy was constantly saying he wanted to marry me, telling people I was his fiancee, etc. (which really ticked me off because it wasn't true and I hadn't agreed to anything), but the real reason behind it was because he saw me as a meal ticket for himself and his children. (He was working when I met him--after he "got comfortable" with me, he quit work so that he could drink full-time.)

Now I know on my part, it's up to me to make some better decisions, but I'm glad to talk to someone else who also knows that life doesn't seem to to the way we think it will, even with Christian rose-colored glasses on.

(And I'm sorry that I sometimes miss words and/or make crucial grammatical errors, as in my earlier post--sometimes my mind is running faster than my fingers can type.) :)

I appreciate the feedback! Anyone other thoughts from anyone?
 
If you get a pre-nup to save the Millions of Millions of bucks that you have, you are NOT trusting GOD and you love MONEY more than you LOVE YOUR WIFE.

PERIOD.

Anyone who can not see this is BLIND.
 
i agree with seth.. Instead of trusting God you are concern of your wealth.. i can't blame you for that, i mean based on what i read on your mgs.. i also got alarm about this issue which is kinda new to me... its not that i have this millions etc.. I may sounds rude but i think its ok to ask the guy directly, straight to that point about pre-nup and what he thinks about it... so, that you will know him well and make the right decision :)

i hope i was able to help :)
 
I do not agree with them. As a christian, if you have truly saught Gods will for the relationship and decided on marriage....then your trust should rest in that.
To me, a pre-nuptual agreement is a bit of an escape clause if *things do not work out*. I would hate for anyone to enter into marriage with me with the attitude that things may not *work out*, so lets protect *MY* money and *MY* assets. Once married, what you have is your spouses and vice-versa.
You should never enter into marriage with any attitude other than the one of loyalty and commitment no matter what may come. God instructs us to NOT worry about tomorrow.
 
I have to Agree with Grace. If I am ever asked to sign a pre nup. I will not marry that person as I would feel like he does not love me and trust me. I believe when God said that 2 become one that means we share everything as well. There is no more Mine, but ours. No more Me but us.
 
I appreciate everyone's input. The things you've been saying (that prenups are a lack of trust, etc.) are pretty much what I've been told in church as well.

I was wondering if anyone out there is divorced, has lost a lot (even if it wasn't much), and then remarried, and what your thoughts were, but anyone's comments are welcome.

No, I don't have millions. But as I said, I never thought I'd be divorced the first time. We went to Lutheran church together--when I started going to a Pentecostal church that I found to be more interactive, he wanted no part of it. We had several other problems--I'm a saver and he was a compulsive spender. The week after we married, I found out (only through a bank slip in his car that he forgot to throw away) that he owed several thousands of dollars he never told me about (and we had been dating almost three years.) We had other problems of course... I tried my best to be trusting but that seems to have been part of my problem.

I came home from work one day to find he had moved out (of course, he never told me--he just left.) He left me for a girl we worked with.

I don't want to get to drawn out here because it's not all about the past, but he left me with a house I'm paying for, and will hopefully have paid off early.

Again, I don't have millions, but, I think to myself, what if someone else comes into my life and decides he wants to take what little I have?

I've seen some things... I try my very best to be open and put my faith in a person. And this is what always gets me in trouble.

Anyway, I've also decided in my heart that if I met someone who asked me about a prenup (if he initiated it), I would be open-minded to the idea and want to hear his explanation as to why. Perhaps he'd been through as much (or more) and I'd want to be understanding of that.

Just my thoughts! Please keep sharing yours as well.
 
seoulsearch said:
I appreciate everyone's input. The things you've been saying (that prenups are a lack of trust, etc.) are pretty much what I've been told in church as well.

I was wondering if anyone out there is divorced, has lost a lot (even if it wasn't much), and then remarried, and what your thoughts were, but anyone's comments are welcome.

No, I don't have millions. But as I said, I never thought I'd be divorced the first time. We went to Lutheran church together--when I started going to a Pentecostal church that I found to be more interactive, he wanted no part of it. We had several other problems--I'm a saver and he was a compulsive spender. The week after we married, I found out (only through a bank slip in his car that he forgot to throw away) that he owed several thousands of dollars he never told me about (and we had been dating almost three years.) We had other problems of course... I tried my best to be trusting but that seems to have been part of my problem.

I came home from work one day to find he had moved out (of course, he never told me--he just left.) He left me for a girl we worked with.

I don't want to get to drawn out here because it's not all about the past, but he left me with a house I'm paying for, and will hopefully have paid off early.

Again, I don't have millions, but, I think to myself, what if someone else comes into my life and decides he wants to take what little I have?

I've seen some things... I try my very best to be open and put my faith in a person. And this is what always gets me in trouble.

Anyway, I've also decided in my heart that if I met someone who asked me about a prenup (if he initiated it), I would be open-minded to the idea and want to hear his explanation as to why. Perhaps he'd been through as much (or more) and I'd want to be understanding of that.

Just my thoughts! Please keep sharing yours as well.
Click to expand...

While I still disagree with prenups for reasons that other people have mentioned, but it seems like you have trust issues and as discussed on another thread, rebuilding trust after a betrayal is hard. My mom's friend is in a second marriage with a guy who is also has been married before. They... I can't remember the details, they were going to put a significant amount of money in her name for tax reasons or something but he was reluctant because he said the last time he did that he lost everything to his ex-wife. So, instead of my mom's friend being all insulted that he didn't trust her, she didn't make a big deal of it and they found another way to handle their finances that wouldn't make him vulnerable in the same way. I guess if one is dealing with someone else who has trust issues, they shouldn't take it personally.

I read in a book about pre-marital councelor who would make the couple bring their bank statements and credit card statements and all the finacial info they had so they could get on the table how much assets and debt the other person has. It sounds extreme, but, these things happen. You know, it's so weird when you think about how people will get naked with another person but they won't share their finances because that's personal. Seriously, how many people out there would rather show someone their naked body than their bank statement, pay stub or credit card bill???? We have this cultural thing where we can't tell people how much we make or how much debt we're in because it's personal. I mean, I do think that should be kept personal to a certain degree, I don't go around telling people how much I make, or how much debt I'm in, but I wouldn't hesitate to tell a close friend. I think before a couple gets married they should know about the other person, how much they make, how much wealth they have and how much debt their in, what medications they take and why, what chronic health problems they have and how it affects their life, whether or not they've ever been arrested, how many car accidents they've been in, whether or not they've ever had a restraining order against them, whether or not they have looming issues in their family that no one ever talks about, that kind of thing.
 
grace said:
I do not agree with them. As a christian, if you have truly saught Gods will for the relationship and decided on marriage....then your trust should rest in that.
To me, a pre-nuptual agreement is a bit of an escape clause if *things do not work out*. I would hate for anyone to enter into marriage with me with the attitude that things may not *work out*, so lets protect *MY* money and *MY* assets. Once married, what you have is your spouses and vice-versa.
You should never enter into marriage with any attitude other than the one of loyalty and commitment no matter what may come. God instructs us to NOT worry about tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's a line in the wedding vows at my church (which are very traditional) that the other person gets all their worldly possessions. Now obviously, you need to make sure you're not marrying a free loader. I mean I totally agree with you, that entering a marriage with an attitude of protecting one's assets if it doesn't work out is just a bad idea, it's like setting yourself up for failure. That being said, I wish more celebrities would get pre-nups because they all seem to get divorced eventually (except Liam Neeson :() and when they don't have a pre-nup it just seems to make the divorce just that much uglier and it gets in the press (which I think is stupid because I'm one of these people who believe that the details of a celebrity's divorce is none of my business) and that's got to be hard on them and their friends and family. The thing about changing my sister's will is just to make everything smoother should my sister have an untimely death. I mean if we both just kind of assumed that we'd get my sister's share of the inheritance that could lead to a misunderstanding. Well, and it makes it harder when it's a piece of land or something else which can't be divided. I mean if it was a sum of cash then we could just divide up the cash, but since it's land I'd have to sell to give him his share in cash. Inheritance has a terrible way of causing strife amoung normally amicable family members. That's why wills are so important.
 
Ancilla:

You are very right about it being strange that people are willing to be naked in front of each other but not be honest about finances. I believe in faith, loyalty, and commitment, but I also think you have to deal with finances very wisely, tactfully, and in a brutally open manner or you are setting yourself up for failure from the beginning. After all, the hard reality is that the number one cause of divorce is financial turmoil, and I think that stands for both Christians and non-Christians.

I would hope no one would accuse me of being a free loader or gold digger. I've only had a few relationships, but each one was me trying to dig the other person out of a very deep grave. I was deeply in love with the guy I married. I knew about some of his financial conditions, but not all. I chose a CZ for my engagement ring (didn't want him to have the expense of a diamond), bought myself a $100 dress to get married in, and our wedding cost somewhere around $2500.

During the week after we married, I found out he owed over $10,000 in credit card bills with more on the way. We had dated three years and he had never told me. He never intended to tell me, either. The only reason it came out was because I had gone to clean out his car, and I found some paperwork he had forgotten to throw away. I had never asked for any proof before because I trusted him. And even when we whittled that debt down, he simply opened more cards and kept spending all the more. I'd open the mailbox to find a $600 bill for a card I never even knew about.

If I am blessed enough to find someone who is right for me (and I'm right for him), I would hope he'll be understanding enough to work with me and compromise a bit.

I used to be very critical of other people's marriages falling apart, thinking they weren't working hard enough at it, etc. Then I got married. I learned my lesson not to be so quick to judge. And at the time, I had no "Biblical" reason for divorce--I was told I had no other option but to stay and work it out.

And there's not much you can do when you try to talk to your husband about it and he won't talk about it, but leaves instead. He moved to the other side of the house and say things like, "It's time for you to go back to YOUR room now," or would go to his friend's house. He would go and come back... then, as I said, one day he moved out while I was at work... then he comes back a month later... then one day he walks in the house, says he's gotten a job an hour away and will be moving out again...

And this whole time, my family and church said there was nothing I could do--my father told me he was sorry I wasn't strong enough or woman enough to make my marriage work or hold it together. I could not get anyone to understand. It was the only time in my life that my parents were not there for me (because I'm the only one in my family who is divorced, so they had no concept of it,) and it was pure hell. After all, it was " 'til death do us part.'" Well yes, I was working on the death part, because I started to believe that suicide was my only option.

I suppose in a way it was God's blessing that He allowed my husband to divorce me instead. Like I said, I had no "Biblical" reason to be able to leave him so I had it set in my head that this was it, and I had to stay no matter what, which was even more devastating that he would leave when I had committed to him in my heart. It was not until a full year later (after the divorce was official) that I learned about the girl he left me for. I suppose I should have been grateful now for that "Biblical" reason? But at the time, I had no knowledge of what was going on or proof (again, this was because I trusted him and didn't question his every move.)


Believe me, I am COMPLETELY sympathetic now with anyone struggling within a relationship or marriage.
 
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I would never sign one. And who ever asked me to .......... i would most likely end it right there.
 
I'm not sure wether I would sign one or not. I don't have much, so there's not much for me to lose. Besides, who would want the little I do have?
 
I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and feedback. I originally threw this question out as a hypothetical. For myself, I haven't run into the situation yet, but as I said, I think if someone asked me, I'd at least ask him why and it would be open for discussion.

A few years ago I was in a dating service and one of the matches was a guy who owned a very well-known local business and was quite well-to-do. I only went out with him once and he talked about things like the new pool he just had installed at his house, the new garage he had built for his collection of old-fashioned cars, and his many travels. I don't know how to explain it--he didn't talk about it in a conceited way, it was just kind of like that was his everyday life. He asked me about going out again but he wasn't a Christian and he was 10 years older than me, which wasn't what I was looking for. To tell you the honest truth, his status also made me a bit insecure.

I think if I were in a situation like that again with a person of those kinds of means, and we were looking at marriage, I would definitely understand if the guy asked me about a prenup, and I would be open-minded about it at least because I'd want to prove to him that I wasn't marrying him for money. It wouldn't bother me to go into a marriage with only what I had and then be left with only what I had.

It's not that I would be expecting a divorce, it's just that I would hope that he would know I was sincere about loving him and not material gain and for me, I wouldn't be offended if he asked for some sort of proof because of my own experiences.

Just my thoughts though--I think everyone's experience and opinion is unique.
 
My humble opinion: if a couple is close enough and mature enough to seriously consider marriage, they should be close enough and mature enough to discuss finances, and anything else (including prenuptial agreements) calmly and responsibly. Healthy communication skills are not going to magically appear after marriage.

It’s easy to say, “I would never…!!” in a hypothetical situation, without life experience. "Pre-nup" does not necessarily mean something "bad."

In real life (at least where I live) marriage is also a LEGAL commitment, and being financially responsible for someone who has betrayed and deserted you is a reality few young couples consider when all starry-eyed with romance…and choosing not to consider the possibility that their partner may not be completely forthcoming and honest and committed just because we want them to be, and they say they are.

Obviously, ideally, a person doesn’t get married without love and trust and confidence that the marriage will last. Unfortunately, marriage partners do not always respect or return that level of commitment.

Honest, open communication between partners would be a good beginning... and wanting to protect yourself from fire after you've been burned is natural, imho.


Just my 2 cents...fwiw
 
im bumping to see if any christians do agree with pre-nups, out of curiousity. perhaps some divorced would have that opinion?
 
I see situations everyday where I think they are a good idea, but the marriages are not. I don't like the idea of them, but I understand how they can be important, most often in situations where a couple is elderly, they've worked all of their lives and want to leave certain things to their children. It brings a certain amount of peace within a family, but there are other ways of dealing with this (i.e. revocable/irrevocable trust agreements, etc.).

Personally, I wouldn't marry anyone I didn't trust with everything I have. I wouldn't want them to marry me unless they felt likewise. This is why I believe in looooooooooong engagements.
 
After really considering this, I would sign a pre nup. I wish I had when I was married. The problem with people, even Christians is That we are always changing. I am not the same today as I was 5 years ago, or even 2 years ago. Your spouse could start off as one person, then 10 years down the road be someone you hardly even know. As Christians marriage is supposed to represent our relationship with Christ, but now days.....it's almost like a joke, Christians get married and divorced at the drop of a hat, its like it means nothing to anyone anymore.
If I was going to be married and he asked me to sign one I would say yes, because really what guarantee would he have that years down the road I would still take our marriage seriously, and what guarantee would I have that he won't walk away because things are getting tough.
I've seen a lot of my friends, Christian friends get married and divorced. The one theme that keeps occurring is " he told me he would never ............" " she told me she would never..........." Marriage can bring out the best in us or the worst. As Christians it should refine us, but we live in a fallen world with fallen men and women.
When my marriage ended I was left with a house that he had taken almost everything out of, a bank account overdrawn, bad credit and a picture of my husband with his girlfriend. See the guy I had married several years earlier was a Christian and he told me he would never to.
Bottom line... Bad stuff happens, people change, circumstances change. If signing a pre nup means some level of protection, I'm all for it.
 
I have debated this with my friend (who is also a Christian) before. He states that it gives some level of protection, but I say it in fact does the opposite.
His reasoning:
1) He can walk away with little damage to his inventory of worldly goods (including his bank account).

My reasoning:
1) It lets your spouse pick and choose what he or she will get "if" they decide to leave, thus making it more convenient for leaving a marriage. Consequently, it removes much of the incentive to 'try' in a marriage. Even in this early stage, it shows you each value your possessions more than each other, how could you expect a marriage to last under such circumstances? This is nothing but implicit selfishness.
2) It allows you leverage to blackmail each other. (Ex: "Remember if you do this, I'll leave and take x amount of things with me!")
3) At the very least it implies that you do not trust in the Lord 100% for all that happens to you. In other words, it shows you value your property and your marriage more than you value your relationship with the Lord. How do you know that God allowing your marriage to end wasn't an act of saving you from the other person?
4) Why bother getting married? There's no reason to commit to each other if you know you can walk away with all of your possessions.

The truth is, people do change, but in truly harmonious marriage (where the two act as one) the two will adapt to changes in each other and encourage each other spiritually. While this is not an easy thing to do at times, it's how marriage works. Only love from Christ can keep a marriage together and overcome these changes. Two people alone cannot keep a marriage together.
 
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